Wolves' Bench

[Carlos Danger]

Thought I'd tee up a thread to discuss the bench. I was curious about how what sort of stats/ranking people find out there. Here is a couple I see:

* We rank #21 (out of 30 teams) in bench minutes/game. The wolves come in at 16.6. The NBA range is 15.6 to 20.6.
* Wolves also rank #21 in bench points/game
* Wolves rank #13 in bench FG% (45.9)
* Wolves rank #15 in 3pt FG% (35.7)
* Wolves bench ranks #9 in +/- per game +0.5
All stats from NBA.com

My take away is that overall the bench is fine. I know many (myself included) have expressed a hope for adding more firepower/scoring. But we also have to be mindful of the other side of the ball too. Adding another Beasley or DLO type player would improve scoring, but at what cost on the other end?

Up to this point, it seems like TC has added some key players that can be viewed as two way, but still more defense focused than offense (NAW, Rudy). It will be interesting to see what (if anything) they do for the trade deadline.

Shake was the guy many were excited about to fill a scoring role. He's played a little better of late, but overall he's at the bottom of the key stats I look at (PER, WS/48, VORP). Can we do better than him? Or give him more leash? He's currently shooting 25% from three point land.

[Lipoli390]

Interesting stats. Thanks for posting, Carlos. Question: How do the Celtics, Thunder, Nuggets, and Clippers compare on those same bench metrics? I mention those teams because they all have records comparable to the Wolves so far this season?

At first blush, I find the bench stats you gave troublesome if the Wolves aspire to be a championship contender this season. Ranking #21 in bench points and #9 in =/- is OK if you simply aspire to be a playoff team, but those stats seem to come up short if your aim is to be the best team in the NBA. Then again, perhaps the Celtics and Nuggets bench stats are no better.

[Carlos Danger]

Interesting stats. Thanks for posting, Carlos. Question: How do the Celtics, Thunder, Nuggets, and Clippers compare on those same bench metrics? I mention those teams because they all have records comparable to the Wolves so far this season?

At first blush, I find the bench stats you gave troublesome if the Wolves aspire to be a championship contender this season. Ranking #21 in bench points and #9 in =/- is OK if you simply aspire to be a playoff team, but those stats seem to come up short if your aim is to be the best team in the NBA. Then again, perhaps the Celtics and Nuggets bench stats are no better.

Ahhh. Good thought process of comparing to other top teams. Here is what I see:

Minutes per Game:
Celts - 15.6
Thunder - 18.4
Nuggets - 16.1
Clippers - 17.2
Wolves - 16.6

I'm not seeing much there. Before looking, I was wondering if Finch was leaning too much on starters. But I don't think that's the case based on those stats.

Points per Game:
Celts - 27.5
Thunder - 33.8
Nuggets - 30.4
Clippers - 35.7
Wolves - 32.0

Again, seems like we are doing ok. Before looking, I was thinking we were very short of scoring with guys like NAW, JMac and now SloMo not shooting much. But Naz is really filling that 6th man role well it seems.

3 pt FG %
Celts - 38.1
Thunder - 39.9
Nuggets - 34.1
Clippers - 38.8
Wolves - 35.7

We are a little behind on this compared to Celts, Thunder and Clippers. This is area we all think we need that 3 point sniper off the bench.

+/-
Celts +2.4
Thunder +2.6
Nuggets (1.7) * That's a negative
Clippers +0.1
Wolves +0.5

Another one to confirm your suspicions Lip. We are better than Clippers/Nuggets. But Celts, Thunder are significantly better in that metric.

[Lipoli390]

Thanks, Carlos! Here are my take-always:

1. The Thunder have far and away the best bench in the lot, leading the other teams in minutes, leaving the pack in every category you listed except points per game where they’re second. Their 3-point percentage is tremendous at 39.9%. And they’re #1 in what I consider the most important stat among the ones you listed - namely +/-.

2. I’d say the Celtics have the second best bench in the lot. They are last in scoring, but that that reflect in part the fact that they’re last in minutes. Nevertheless, their bench appears to be efficient and potent with a 38.1% 3-point percentage, which is way better than the Wolves lackluster 35.7%. And most importantly, the Celtics bench is a close second to OKC in plus/minus at 2.4.

3. Look out for the Clippers. They have an elite starting lineup with Kawhi, Paul George and James Harden. Now I see that they have a highly potent bench, leading all the other teams in points at 35.7 and boasting impressive 38.8% 3-point shooting.

4. Denver doesn’t appear to have an impressive bench. In fact, its bench appears to be slightly worse than the Wolves. But they have a great starting lineup and the team they have won the NBA championship last season.

I still think the Celtics are the team to beat in the NBA. I’ll be surprised if they’re not in the NBA finals, but I guess it wouldn’t be shocking if the Sixers or Bucks came out of the East. The West seems loaded with teams that could end up in the finals. Along with the Wolves, the list includes Denver, OKC and the Clippers. And I wouldn’t rule out the Suns or Pelicans either. That’s 6 teams each with a legitimate shot at representing the Western Conference in the NBA finals. OKC would be my pick to come out of the West if they weren’t so young. I have to believe that their youth will hold them back in the end. You can’t bet against the defending champs. They have the same team, including Jokic, that won it all last season. And look out for the Clippers. I had my doubts about the Harden effect, but they’ve been playing stellar basketball lately. There’s no denying that Jame Harden is still an elite player and pairing him with Kawhi and Paul George creates a special big three. The Suns seem to be gelling lately and the Pelicans are really good if Zion can stay healthy.

[60WinTim]

On a side note, it was our bench and KAT that took control of the Nets game in the 2nd quarter. Conley moving NAW to the bench cannot be ignored.

[thedoper]

Imagine if Slowmo could shoot? Our bench would be dominant.

[Jester1534]

Imagine if Slowmo could shoot? Our bench would be dominant.

Another game another team worst 86.5 OFFRTG with him on the floor.

[Q-is-here]

Seems like we have a solid/good bench. Not elite, but certainly not a weakness overall.

As many of you have said, this team goes as far as Ant can take us. Unfortunately, he hasn't given us much confidence of late that he's even close to being ready.

[FNG]

Thanks for teeing up this interesting thread, Carlos.

I agree that +/- is probably the best way to evaluate a bench...you want them to at least maintain leads (or not increase deficits) while they are in there, and our positive .5 meets that goal. We do lag Boston and OkC though.

I don't know that bench PPG is the most meaningful stat because of the difference in MPG. I would compare points per minute instead. And it's not surprising that the Clippers lead with future HOFer Westbrook coming off the bench (but it's also not surprising that the Clippers are second to last in +/- given Russ's subpar defense.

The Wolves then rank second to the Clippers in points per minute at 1.93...doesn't that tell us that our offensive firepower off the bench is just fine?

[Lipoli390]

Thanks for teeing up this interesting thread, Carlos.

I agree that +/- is probably the best way to evaluate a bench...you want them to at least maintain leads (or not increase deficits) while they are in there, and our positive .5 meets that goal. We do lag Boston and OkC though.

I don't know that bench PPG is the most meaningful stat because of the difference in MPG. I would compare points per minute instead. And it's not surprising that the Clippers lead with future HOFer Westbrook coming off the bench (but it's also not surprising that the Clippers are second to last in +/- given Russ's subpar defense.

The Wolves then rank second to the Clippers in points per minute at 1.93...doesn't that tell us that our offensive firepower off the bench is just fine?

If that stat tells us our offensive firepower off the bench is adequate, then our starting lineup must be woefully lacking in offensive firepower because this Wolves team has the 5th fewest points per game in the NBA. We’re still a good team with our League-leading defense. But we’re not a championship contender with that sort of relative offensive production. Maybe it’s the bench, maybe it’s the starting lineup, or maybe it’s a combination of the two. In any case, it’s really bad.