Iowa Wolves

[Carlos Danger]

A couple of things...after reading through some of the Leonard Miller criticisms in this thread. First, I concede some of the things that have been pointed out do not paint a good picture. But my question is...do the paint the whole and accurate picture of who he is?

I just looked up a few stats from the G League. Things that make me feel ok with Miller include:
1.) He just turned 20 which makes him one of the younger players in the league. Yes, this is his second go around. But still. I count 15 (qualified) players younger than 20.

2.) It's true that he hasn't improved year over year up to this point. But..this year isn't over. I would give it time. The G League is for development, so let's see if he can finish the year strong.

3.) Miller currently ranks #16 in PPG and #8 in RPG. That's an accomplishment. Room to improve? Yes. But there is something there to work with. I haven't thrown in the towel on him yet.

And on a random side note...did anyone know that Shabazz Muhammad is playing for the Stockton Kings? I happened upon his name while perusing stats. Fun fact, he currently ranks #2 in G-League Defensive Rating. Bring him back!

[Q-is-here]

Carlos, You should watch some games that Miller plays in plus look at the stats. Now that would give you a complete picture.

I'm sorry, but I have very little hope for him defensively. We've seen this movie before. If you are both clueless AND don't give effort, that is an absolutely lethal combination that the G-League isn't going to fix. May be he gets good enough on offense to become an even worse defending version of Naz Reid. He definitely has some skills offensively.

[Lipoli390]

Carlos, You should watch some games that Miller plays in plus look at the stats. Now that would give you a complete picture.

I'm sorry, but I have very little hope for him defensively. We've seen this movie before. If you are both clueless AND don't give effort, that is an absolutely lethal combination that the G-League isn't going to fix. May be he gets good enough on offense to become an even worse defending version of Naz Reid. He definitely has some skills offensively.

What gets me is Miller’s amazing lack of any effort or competitive drive apparent in the videos I’ve seen. And it’s not just lack of effort defensively. I’ve also the same “I don’t care” conduct from him on the boards. Players can overcome cluelessness to an extent as we’ve seen from KAT the last few seasons as he has gone from being a bad defender to a pretty good one. In the beginning, Ant showed lapses in defensive effort his first few seasons, but there’s never been any doubt about his hyper competitiveness. It’s the players lacking competitive zeal who ultimately fail even if they have elite physical talent; Wes Johnson and especially Derrick Williams are great examples of that.

You can overcome a lower IQ through repetition and learning. If you enter the League not caring much about defense but if you otherwise have a strong competitive drive, you will eventually maximize your defensive potential. I’ve been around long enough to know when I see a physically gifted player without competitive drive - Kandiman, Wes Johnson, McCants, Derrick Williams — the list goes on. I’d like to believe that Miller isn’t in that category, but what I see leaves me pessimistic about him.

[Lipoli390]

Carlos, You should watch some games that Miller plays in plus look at the stats. Now that would give you a complete picture.

I'm sorry, but I have very little hope for him defensively. We've seen this movie before. If you are both clueless AND don't give effort, that is an absolutely lethal combination that the G-League isn't going to fix. May be he gets good enough on offense to become an even worse defending version of Naz Reid. He definitely has some skills offensively.

What gets me is Miller’s amazing lack of any effort or competitive drive apparent in the videos I’ve seen. And it’s not just lack of effort defensively. I’ve also the same “I don’t care” conduct from him on the boards. Players can overcome cluelessness to an extent as we’ve seen from KAT the last few seasons as he has gone from being a bad defender to a pretty good one. In the beginning, Ant showed lapses in defensive effort his first few seasons, but there’s never been any doubt about his hyper competitiveness. It’s the players lacking competitive zeal who ultimately fail even if they have elite physical talent; Wes Johnson and especially Derrick Williams are great examples of that.

You can overcome a lower IQ through repetition and learning. If you enter the League not caring much about defense but if you otherwise have a strong competitive drive, you will eventually maximize your defensive potential. I’ve been around long enough to know when I see a physically gifted player without competitive drive - Kandiman, Wes Johnson, McCants, Derrick Williams — the list goes on. I’d like to believe that Miller isn’t in that category, but based on what I’ve seen, I’m not optimistic.

[Q-is-here]

LOL, Iowa scores 91 in the FIRST HALF against Sioux Falls But Sioux Falls isn't out of it since they scored 72! Leonard Miller once again rolling out the red carpet in the paint for anyone that "dares" to enter.

[kekgeek]

Iowa wolves lose 157-156.

What a joke of a program

[Q-is-here]

Iowa wolves lose 157-156.

What a joke of a program

They were up by 23 heading into the 4th and gave up 47 points (!) to cough up the lead, only for Lance Stephenson to make a 3 to take a 2 point lead with about a second left. Sioux Falls takes a time out and with .6 seconds left draws up a side-out play that....you guessed it....led to an open 3 that was promptly swished for the one point win and a 50-point quarter by Sioux Falls.

Miller and Minott piled up nice box score stats again, but Minott was a -8 and Miller a -2 on the night. Their defense continues to be just atrocious. Nothing to get upset about if either get included as part of a trade package to get us a backup PG or shooter.

[Lipoli390]

Iowa wolves lose 157-156.

What a joke of a program

They were up by 23 heading into the 4th and gave up 47 points (!) to cough up the lead, only for Lance Stephenson to make a 3 to take a 2 point lead with about a second left. Sioux Falls takes a time out and with .6 seconds left draws up a side-out play that....you guessed it....led to an open 3 that was promptly swished for the one point win and a 50-point quarter by Sioux Falls.

Miller and Minott piled up nice box score stats again, but Minott was a -8 and Miller a -2 on the night. Their defense continues to be just atrocious. Nothing to get upset about if either get included as part of a trade package to get us a backup PG or shooter.

I’d like to see a different head coach in Iowa. To be this bad you have to have a terrible head coach.

[Monster]

A couple of things...after reading through some of the Leonard Miller criticisms in this thread. First, I concede some of the things that have been pointed out do not paint a good picture. But my question is...do the paint the whole and accurate picture of who he is?

I just looked up a few stats from the G League. Things that make me feel ok with Miller include:
1.) He just turned 20 which makes him one of the younger players in the league. Yes, this is his second go around. But still. I count 15 (qualified) players younger than 20.

2.) It's true that he hasn't improved year over year up to this point. But..this year isn't over. I would give it time. The G League is for development, so let's see if he can finish the year strong.

3.) Miller currently ranks #16 in PPG and #8 in RPG. That's an accomplishment. Room to improve? Yes. But there is something there to work with. I haven't thrown in the towel on him yet.

And on a random side note...did anyone know that Shabazz Muhammad is playing for the Stockton Kings? I happened upon his name while perusing stats. Fun fact, he currently ranks #2 in G-League Defensive Rating. Bring him back!

I haven’t had time to watch any Iowa games for quite a while so Q’s concerns are worrisome and the lack of defense from that squad in general is not good either…let’s look at Miller as an asset instead of someone we hope will help the Wolves on the court.

Like Carlos has pointed out he is still one of the youngest players in the g-league. He turned 20 late in November. That’s still quite young. It’s also worth pointing out that he is playing for a different team this year. While doing so his stats are actually pretty similar to last year with one pretty significant exception. 3 point shooting. He has more than doubled his volume and shooting over 37% on those 3’s. That’s not a small development. 3 point shooting is a big deal in the NBA and I don’t think Miller is shooting them all from the corners but I don’t have data to back that up. As a young player Miller is a toolsy guy with lots of physical attributes that many GMs really like and he is on a first year of a 4 year cheap contract that’s guaranteed for just next season. I’d guess he still has at least as much value as the draft slot he was taken. Connelly has history of being willing to part with young players in deals that he has drafted for value so I would not be surprised if he ended up dealing Miller or Minott in a trade.

[Lipoli390]

A couple of things...after reading through some of the Leonard Miller criticisms in this thread. First, I concede some of the things that have been pointed out do not paint a good picture. But my question is...do the paint the whole and accurate picture of who he is?

I just looked up a few stats from the G League. Things that make me feel ok with Miller include:
1.) He just turned 20 which makes him one of the younger players in the league. Yes, this is his second go around. But still. I count 15 (qualified) players younger than 20.

2.) It's true that he hasn't improved year over year up to this point. But..this year isn't over. I would give it time. The G League is for development, so let's see if he can finish the year strong.

3.) Miller currently ranks #16 in PPG and #8 in RPG. That's an accomplishment. Room to improve? Yes. But there is something there to work with. I haven't thrown in the towel on him yet.

And on a random side note...did anyone know that Shabazz Muhammad is playing for the Stockton Kings? I happened upon his name while perusing stats. Fun fact, he currently ranks #2 in G-League Defensive Rating. Bring him back!

I haven’t had time to watch any Iowa games for quite a while so Q’s concerns are worrisome and the lack of defense from that squad in general is not good either…let’s look at Miller as an asset instead of someone we hope will help the Wolves on the court.

Like Carlos has pointed out he is still one of the youngest players in the g-league. He turned 20 late in November. That’s still quite young. It’s also worth pointing out that he is playing for a different team this year. While doing so his stats are actually pretty similar to last year with one pretty significant exception. 3 point shooting. He has more than doubled his volume and shooting over 37% on those 3’s. That’s not a small development. 3 point shooting is a big deal in the NBA and I don’t think Miller is shooting them all from the corners but I don’t have data to back that up. As a young player Miller is a toolsy guy with lots of physical attributes that many GMs really like and he is on a first year of a 4 year cheap contract that’s guaranteed for just next season. I’d guess he still has at least as much value as the draft slot he was taken. Connelly has history of being willing to part with young players in deals that he has drafted for value so I would not be surprised if he ended up dealing Miller or Minott in a trade.

Monster - I think your take is excellent. Viewing Miller as an asset, which you wisely suggested, doesn’t necessarily mean we trade him. I’m not going to totally write him off as a future Minnesota Timberwolf. His physical gifts are tremendous and he has a special knack fo rebounding. Carlos was right to emphasize the fact that Miller is still very young. I just wish his flaws were turnovers, mistakes and mental errors rather than competitive zeal and effort. Nevertheless, it’s not like I’ve watched him play a ton. Maybe there’s hope. Unfortunately, there’s typically very little hope for players who lack competitive drive and I’ve seen some troubling examples that suggest Miller doesn’t have that drive.

But would I include Miller in a package for Tyus Jones? No. Tyus is on an expiring $14M contract so he’d be a 3 or 4 month rental. While I understand the all-in approach for this season, there have to be limits on how far you take that approach. With so few future draft assets I think it would be highly imprudent to trade a young talent like Miller for a short-term rental like Tyus who can’t be counted on to get this team over the hump to the NBA finals. I like Tyus a lot, but he’s nothing close to a sure thing.