Is it time to move on from KAT?

[kekgeek]

Addition by subtraction. Lip’s fascination with the 46 win team of two years ago is alarming. His salary would be difficult to trade, super high value isn’t likely. I would think Finch has to absolutely hate coaching him and I would think his presence sucks the life out of the locker room. Kat stagnates offense most nights. Everyone in the league can shoot now. He’s not the unicorn he thinks he is.

Do you really think he stagnates the offense. He's tied for 48th of Forwards in the NBA for time with the ball per possession and tied for 11th of centers in time with the ball on offense.

[Coolbreeze44]

Trading KAT after this season would be a bad idea for at least three reasons:

1. He’s one of only two elite offensive players on a somewhat offensively challenged Wolves team. This isn’t a team that can afford to take even a half step backwards offensively and remain a title contender. The fact that KAT has become a good (not just passable) defender is a tremendous bonus.

2. Getting comparable value in return for KAT right now would be difficult now when he’s on the front end of a super-max deal and the Wolves are on the threshold of exceeding the second apron.

3. KAT’s super max salary next season will make it very difficult to match salaries.

The time to trade KAT was the summer before last when KAT was the best player on a 46-win team and a year away from the beginning of a super max deal. Last season was the next best opportunity with a year left before his supermax deal. It would have been much easier last summer to match salaries.

The ship on trading KAT has sailed. And so has the trade Rudy ship. TC hitched the team’s wagon to these two-bigs and there’s no reasonable way to unhitch the wagon at this point. And I’m fine with that. We’re going to end up a top three team this season and have a chance of making the NBA finals. No matter what happens this season, the organization will have to bring the same core back as a practical matter.

If this team doesn’t advance in the playoffs it won’t be because of KAT or Rudy. Instead, it will be because Ant and Jaden aren’t yet where they need to be and because we lack another elite bench scorer in addition to Naz.

Lip, when I advocated for trading KAT two years ago, you argued that he would still have the same value at this time. I countered that his value was at it's zenith and would only come down.

I'm not sure if I want to trade him now, but his complaining and mental weaknesses are still holding us back today. I don't believe he has improved his complaining, in fact it may even be worse.

Techinical fouls this year
Kat: 0
Ant: 10

Technical fouls last year
Kat: 4
Ant: 13

I would say Kat complaining is way down this year.

Whether he gets a technical or not isn't the point. He takes himself mentally out of possessions and that drags the team down. He's not a jerk, so he doesn't tend to raise the ire of the officials. It's more what he does to his teammates and himself during the flow.

[Lipoli390]

Trading KAT after this season would be a bad idea for at least three reasons:

1. He’s one of only two elite offensive players on a somewhat offensively challenged Wolves team. This isn’t a team that can afford to take even a half step backwards offensively and remain a title contender. The fact that KAT has become a good (not just passable) defender is a tremendous bonus.

2. Getting comparable value in return for KAT right now would be difficult now when he’s on the front end of a super-max deal and the Wolves are on the threshold of exceeding the second apron.

3. KAT’s super max salary next season will make it very difficult to match salaries.

The time to trade KAT was the summer before last when KAT was the best player on a 46-win team and a year away from the beginning of a super max deal. Last season was the next best opportunity with a year left before his supermax deal. It would have been much easier last summer to match salaries.

The ship on trading KAT has sailed. And so has the trade Rudy ship. TC hitched the team’s wagon to these two-bigs and there’s no reasonable way to unhitch the wagon at this point. And I’m fine with that. We’re going to end up a top three team this season and have a chance of making the NBA finals. No matter what happens this season, the organization will have to bring the same core back as a practical matter.

If this team doesn’t advance in the playoffs it won’t be because of KAT or Rudy. Instead, it will be because Ant and Jaden aren’t yet where they need to be and because we lack another elite bench scorer in addition to Naz.

Lip, when I advocated for trading KAT two years ago, you argued that he would still have the same value at this time. I countered that his value was at it's zenith and would only come down.

I'm not sure if I want to trade him now, but his complaining and mental weaknesses are still holding us back today. I don't believe he has improved his complaining, in fact it may even be worse.

Techinical fouls this year
Kat: 0
Ant: 10

Technical fouls last year
Kat: 4
Ant: 13

I would say Kat complaining is way down this year.

Kek - Don’t confuse people with the facts. . KAT’s complaining is obviously down as evidenced by the facts you provided and simply watching games. But even if it weren’t, his defense has improved and he remains a great offensive player.

[Lipoli390]

Trading KAT after this season would be a bad idea for at least three reasons:

1. He’s one of only two elite offensive players on a somewhat offensively challenged Wolves team. This isn’t a team that can afford to take even a half step backwards offensively and remain a title contender. The fact that KAT has become a good (not just passable) defender is a tremendous bonus.

2. Getting comparable value in return for KAT right now would be difficult now when he’s on the front end of a super-max deal and the Wolves are on the threshold of exceeding the second apron.

3. KAT’s super max salary next season will make it very difficult to match salaries.

The time to trade KAT was the summer before last when KAT was the best player on a 46-win team and a year away from the beginning of a super max deal. Last season was the next best opportunity with a year left before his supermax deal. It would have been much easier last summer to match salaries.

The ship on trading KAT has sailed. And so has the trade Rudy ship. TC hitched the team’s wagon to these two-bigs and there’s no reasonable way to unhitch the wagon at this point. And I’m fine with that. We’re going to end up a top three team this season and have a chance of making the NBA finals. No matter what happens this season, the organization will have to bring the same core back as a practical matter.

If this team doesn’t advance in the playoffs it won’t be because of KAT or Rudy. Instead, it will be because Ant and Jaden aren’t yet where they need to be and because we lack another elite bench scorer in addition to Naz.

Lip, when I advocated for trading KAT two years ago, you argued that he would still have the same value at this time. I countered that his value was at it's zenith and would only come down.

I'm not sure if I want to trade him now, but his complaining and mental weaknesses are still holding us back today. I don't believe he has improved his complaining, in fact it may even be worse.

Cool - You were right two years ago about KAT’s value being at its zenith. And don’t get me wrong, I still think he has a lot of value. I just don’t see us getting optimal value for him in return given his contract and the fact that the rest of the League knows we’re on the brink of the 2nd apron. No one at the time, including you and I, knew what the new CBA would look like and we didn’t anticipate the Gobert deal. If the Wolves weren’t having a great season, I’d be more inclined to deal KAT after this season for picks and prospects. I doubt there’s a deal for KAT that would make us better. So as someone else mentioned, it would be a deal for picks and prospects. That doesn’t make sense to me for a team that’s currently leading the Western Conference.

As for the whining, I don’t like it but he has improved substantially in that regard while also improving his defense. He’s a class act and loyal. He’s not perfect, but he’s not holding this team back. That’s nuts. He’s not this team’s best player or its leader. Ant’s the team’s best player, but he’s not ready yet to be the best player on a championship team. That’s not suprising given that he returned 22 years old the beginning of this season. And Jaden still hasn’t come close to reaching his full potential. So I can see trading KAT for picks and prospects as part of re-tooling around Ant, Jaden and Naz. But under the circumstances, I wouldn’t do it.

Again, you were right two years ago. If we were going to trade KAT that was the time to do it. I didn’t want to at the time and I’m glad we didn’t. On the other hand, a KAT deal back then could have worked well. We’ll never know.

[Lipoli390]

Addition by subtraction. Lip’s fascination with the 46 win team of two years ago is alarming. His salary would be difficult to trade, super high value isn’t likely. I would think Finch has to absolutely hate coaching him and I would think his presence sucks the life out of the locker room. Kat stagnates offense most nights. Everyone in the league can shoot now. He’s not the unicorn he thinks he is.

Do you really think he stagnates the offense. He's tied for 48th of Forwards in the NBA for time with the ball per possession and tied for 11th of centers in time with the ball on offense.

There you go again, Kek, confusing Duke with facts. I’m pretty sure KAT once turned down Duke’s request for an autograph. That sort of thing leaves a scar.

[rapsuperstar31]

My gut say's no keep Towns for at least the next two years with Rudy and Conley signed and see what we can do. Of course that is as long as Arod and Lore are willing to do that. If Arod and Lore are not willing to pay it because of an early first or second round exit this season, or maybe we win a title this year putting us into the luxury tax with Conley's unlikely incentives, which kick starts the repeater tax earlier in the process. That's all on Arod, Lore and Tim Connelly to decide on. If they do trade Towns or Rudy sometime in the next year or two I just hope they know what they are doing and get pieces that will help us now and in the future to blend in with Ant, Jaden, Naz, and hopefully NAW and maybe Miller hopefully for the next decade.

[Lipoli390]

Addition by subtraction. Lip’s fascination with the 46 win team of two years ago is alarming. His salary would be difficult to trade, super high value isn’t likely. I would think Finch has to absolutely hate coaching him and I would think his presence sucks the life out of the locker room. Kat stagnates offense most nights. Everyone in the league can shoot now. He’s not the unicorn he thinks he is.

They were likable in a way they over achieved a bit and generally played hard (Bev, Vando, etc). I didn't see a path with "generally" staying with that roster though that would quickly lead us to where we are now as a contending team. I think the consensus was we would be even a bit worse prior to the Rudy trade that next season. The West was getting bolstered that offseason with many teams making moves. We felt like on a trajectory to middle ground and likely that is it for the next 3-4 years (barring a different big move). Our picks would be late lottery or in the early 20's. I had no issue at all with dumping those picks for Gobert. You just cannot really count on any mid later first turning out.

Winning in the NBA is built on stars and Rudy is a star on defense. Sure he was a rare later pick that worked out, but it is very rare. I did some basic math and like 10% of late firsts even turn out to be rotation guys. You really need top 5 picks in the draft if not top picks overall (we as Wolves fans should know that). That is just the nature of the difficulty of finding stars and difference makers.

As far as trading KAT. I think it's not a viable topic right now. Let's see how this season and playoffs go. A first round exit type of thing could make paying 2nd Apron money not fun for the owners. A deep run with the team playing well could be the difference going forward (maybe even finals *crosses fingers*).

That’s a fair take, Wolvesfan. As much as I liked that 46-win team, keeping that roster exactly as it was not going to get this team into championship contention. But there were certainly other options beyond trading the farm for Rudy that I believe could have been as effective and more sustainable over the long haul. We’ll never know. But I look at it like this. That 46-win team was fun to watch and would have gotten better based solely on the development of Ant and Jaden who weren’t nearly as good as they are now. Nevertheless, I really like the team we have this season, which will likely win over 50 games. I didn’t like the Gobert gamble, but he’s been terrific this season and has played a huge part in a terrific season for the Wolves. Obviously, Ant has been critical to the team’s success. And KAT has also been a major reason for the team’s success. The two-big combo seems to be working well. But this team will ultimately go as far as Ant can take it. He needs to make better decisions with the ball. I think that will come with age and experience. Jaden needs to take another step offensively as I think he’s just scratching the surface of his potential. Players don’t peak at age 22 or 23. I’m excited about what those two will be next season and the season after. I believe MJ was 28 before he made the NBA finals and won a championship.

As you noted, let’s see how things go in the playoffs before we start talking about trading one of the core players on the team leading the Western Conference. I do fear a first-round exit, but even if that happens I would argue that the best course is probably keeping the team together next season for one year over the second apron. Then we can figure something out, including a new lower salary contract for Rudy to get below the 2nd apron. Meanwhile, I’m going to continue enjoying the ride in spite of my skepticism. The Wolves are a very good team. Ant and KAT have struggled since the all-star break. No reason they can’t both get back to their pre all-star form soon.

[Coolbreeze44]

The only time KAT doesn't complain is when he scores. It's usually not demonstrative or long, but it is as often as it ever was. The refs could actually call him for offensive fouls twice as often as they do. He uses his left arm illegally 75% of the time on his drives. I just wish he would play basketball because when he does he does it awfully well, at least in the regular season.

[Lipoli390]

My gut say's no keep Towns for at least the next two years with Rudy and Conley signed and see what we can do. Of course that is as long as Arod and Lore are willing to do that. If Arod and Lore are not willing to pay it because of an early first or second round exit this season, or maybe we win a title this year putting us into the luxury tax with Conley's unlikely incentives, which kick starts the repeater tax earlier in the process. That's all on Arod, Lore and Tim Connelly to decide on. If they do trade Towns or Rudy sometime in the next year or two I just hope they know what they are doing and get pieces that will help us now and in the future to blend in with Ant, Jaden, Naz, and hopefully NAW and maybe Miller hopefully for the next decade.

That’s a good take, Rap. The Wolves organization can go in a number of different directions in the summer. We’ll see how things turn out when the dust finally settles on this season.

[Lipoli390]

The only time KAT doesn't complain is when he scores. It's usually not demonstrative or long, but it is as often as it ever was. The refs could actually call him for offensive fouls twice as often as they do. He uses his left arm illegally 75% of the time on his drives. I just wish he would play basketball because when he does he does it awfully well, at least in the regular season.

You obviously believe that, Cool. So there’s no. point in arguing. By the way, I thought it’s been 68% of the time on the illegal use of his left arm. .