FNG wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:30 pm
Really interesting article by Jim Souhan in todays StarTrib about this situation. He likens all the sycophants (including Jim Pete, Finchie, and some of the players) coming over to greet/hug the Taylors before the game started to the final scene in Godfather I...where everyone shows up to kiss Pacino's ring after his competition had been eliminated. Funny, but also very telling.
Taylor is Souhan's employer, so we have to take Jim's comments with a grain of salt. But he postulates that Glen staying on as majority owner could be the best result. While Lore and ARod are not a known commodity in terms of their loyalty to Minnesota, Glen is not...he stepped up to keep the Wolves in the state, and also saved the StarTrib when it was going down. As long as the Taylor family is making the decisions (and Becky is only 66 and a superfan, as are many of the kids and grandkids). we can feel confident the Wolves are not leaving.
Further, as I've mentioned before, Lore/Arod will still be 40% owners. And having 2 billionaires plus the well-healed ARod in the ownership group (as well as other limited partners) leads to a bundle of cash available to pay any luxury tax that might pop up.
Who knows what is going to happen here, but Souhan's article made me feel a little bit better.
Does anyone know about how much the team makes every year after expenses? The thing is, the more you spend the more revenue you should take in (assuming you are good and sell more seats, merch,etc). Then you have playoff games, more merch, etc... Making an extra "whatever million" by making a playoff run can offset the lux tax expense. Maybe become even more profitable. I'm just spitballing here since I have no data. But the point is they likely don't take money from their own pockets in the end. More money invested can equal a greater return even.
It is a bit of a gamble though. If the team does poorly, your star player/s get hurt. You just lose out in the end.
I would caution listening to any owner about profitability. The twins were just caught lying about being non profitable even though they made 30 million last year.
There reasons why the payroll went down to fans was that they were profitable.
Now there payroll is 30 million less and it’s being reported they got 40 of the 50 million for tv rights back which was there excuse in the first place.
So the new Head lied and now the team will probably make close to 50-60 million this year. But hey they weren’t 2 games from going to ALCS last year why spend money when you can just make the playoffs.
FNG wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:30 pm
Really interesting article by Jim Souhan in todays StarTrib about this situation. He likens all the sycophants (including Jim Pete, Finchie, and some of the players) coming over to greet/hug the Taylors before the game started to the final scene in Godfather I...where everyone shows up to kiss Pacino's ring after his competition had been eliminated. Funny, but also very telling.
Taylor is Souhan's employer, so we have to take Jim's comments with a grain of salt. But he postulates that Glen staying on as majority owner could be the best result. While Lore and ARod are not a known commodity in terms of their loyalty to Minnesota, Glen is not...he stepped up to keep the Wolves in the state, and also saved the StarTrib when it was going down. As long as the Taylor family is making the decisions (and Becky is only 66 and a superfan, as are many of the kids and grandkids). we can feel confident the Wolves are not leaving.
Further, as I've mentioned before, Lore/Arod will still be 40% owners. And having 2 billionaires plus the well-healed ARod in the ownership group (as well as other limited partners) leads to a bundle of cash available to pay any luxury tax that might pop up.
Who knows what is going to happen here, but Souhan's article made me feel a little bit better.
Does anyone know about how much the team makes every year after expenses? The thing is, the more you spend the more revenue you should take in (assuming you are good and sell more seats, merch,etc). Then you have playoff games, more merch, etc... Making an extra "whatever million" by making a playoff run can offset the lux tax expense. Maybe become even more profitable. I'm just spitballing here since I have no data. But the point is they likely don't take money from their own pockets in the end. More money invested can equal a greater return even.
It is a bit of a gamble though. If the team does poorly, your star player/s get hurt. You just lose out in the end.
I would caution listening to any owner about profitability. The twins were just caught lying about being non profitable even though they made 30 million last year.
There reasons why the payroll went down to fans was that they were profitable.
Now there payroll is 30 million less and it’s being reported they got 40 of the 50 million for tv rights back which was there excuse in the first place.
So the new Head lied and now the team will probably make close to 50-60 million this year. But hey they weren’t 2 games from going to ALCS last year why spend money when you can just make the playoffs.
They can lie sure, they can also simply pay themselves the year end profit. "Hey we weren't profitable" but the owner/s didn't tell you he took a 30 million dollar year end bonus either. Not to mention the gains simply in franchise appreciation which has been astronomical.
These guys are not hurting in the end either way for sure. Billionaires claiming poorhouse is worse then when Spree said he can't feed his family on 7 million a year or whatever he turned down. That was funny.
I am also sick of the public funding for stadiums also. If you are taking public funding then the product should also be free also as far as over the air viewing. We are paying for part of the product already! You want my tax money AND you want me to subscribe to a sports package through so and so App or Cable/Sat, etc... That is fucking BS for sure.
Sundog wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:27 pm
Well, this kerfuffle certainly took another interesting turn. I’d hate to owe Glen an apology…
But whatever… Glen and Arod/Lore should stfu until a more appropriate time. This isn’t what anyone should be worried about right now!
Well, I was way wrong on my thoughts about this deal, Sundog. I have been surmising that Lore/ARod were more likely than Glen to "keep the band together" next year and pay the lux tax (and even go into the second apron), but Woj's report is that it's exactly the opposite. He tweeted that the potential new owners were concerned about the tax, and planned to cut payroll enough to keep us below it. Glen became aware of this plan, and is trying to find a way to not turn the team over to the new ownership group because he thinks it would be bad for our chances of winning. Well, yeah...
I'm not a Glen hater like many here, but I have to admit I was excited about the prospect of having new celebrity owners who I thought might be more likely to "go for it". But Woj's tweet makes me see things through a different lens, and I'm put in the odd position of cheering for Glen to prevail in this dispute. Here's what I think is going on. Glen has said repeatedly that he intends to give most of his wealth away, so it stands to reason that paying lux tax doesn't bother him much. But Lore and ARod are still young and building their wealth. I guess I can understand why 2 guys in their position would be more reluctant to go all in and have to pay the tax.
Does anyone know about how much the team makes every year after expenses? The thing is, the more you spend the more revenue you should take in (assuming you are good and sell more seats, merch,etc). Then you have playoff games, more merch, etc... Making an extra "whatever million" by making a playoff run can offset the lux tax expense. Maybe become even more profitable. I'm just spitballing here since I have no data. But the point is they likely don't take money from their own pockets in the end. More money invested can equal a greater return even.
It is a bit of a gamble though. If the team does poorly, your star player/s get hurt. You just lose out in the end.
I would caution listening to any owner about profitability. The twins were just caught lying about being non profitable even though they made 30 million last year.
There reasons why the payroll went down to fans was that they were profitable.
Now there payroll is 30 million less and it’s being reported they got 40 of the 50 million for tv rights back which was there excuse in the first place.
So the new Head lied and now the team will probably make close to 50-60 million this year. But hey they weren’t 2 games from going to ALCS last year why spend money when you can just make the playoffs.
They can lie sure, they can also simply pay themselves the year end profit. "Hey we weren't profitable" but the owner/s didn't tell you he took a 30 million dollar year end bonus either. Not to mention the gains simply in franchise appreciation which has been astronomical.
These guys are not hurting in the end either way for sure. Billionaires claiming poorhouse is worse then when Spree said he can't feed his family on 7 million a year or whatever he turned down. That was funny.
I am also sick of the public funding for stadiums also. If you are taking public funding then the product should also be free also as far as over the air viewing. We are paying for part of the product already! You want my tax money AND you want me to subscribe to a sports package through so and so App or Cable/Sat, etc... That is fucking BS for sure.
Yep.
So let's say a guy worth $2B really did lose $30M one year. Meh. As crazy as it sounds... it's a pittance.
Meanwhile, that same guy's original $400M investment in the team has grown in value to $2B.
I would caution listening to any owner about profitability. The twins were just caught lying about being non profitable even though they made 30 million last year.
There reasons why the payroll went down to fans was that they were profitable.
Now there payroll is 30 million less and it’s being reported they got 40 of the 50 million for tv rights back which was there excuse in the first place.
So the new Head lied and now the team will probably make close to 50-60 million this year. But hey they weren’t 2 games from going to ALCS last year why spend money when you can just make the playoffs.
They can lie sure, they can also simply pay themselves the year end profit. "Hey we weren't profitable" but the owner/s didn't tell you he took a 30 million dollar year end bonus either. Not to mention the gains simply in franchise appreciation which has been astronomical.
These guys are not hurting in the end either way for sure. Billionaires claiming poorhouse is worse then when Spree said he can't feed his family on 7 million a year or whatever he turned down. That was funny.
I am also sick of the public funding for stadiums also. If you are taking public funding then the product should also be free also as far as over the air viewing. We are paying for part of the product already! You want my tax money AND you want me to subscribe to a sports package through so and so App or Cable/Sat, etc... That is fucking BS for sure.
Yep.
So let's say a guy worth $2B really did lose $30M one year. Meh. As crazy as it sounds... it's a pittance.
Meanwhile, that same guy's original $400M investment in the team has grown in value to $2B.
Not a bad gig if you can get it.
Agreed. Don't tell me you cannot fund a stadium/arena yourself when your net gain on your franchise has gone up a couple BILLION. It's not like that arena isn't being rented out all the time anyways for concerts and other events too. Saying taxpayers should fund it is simply ludicrous.
If my math is correct, let's put losing $3 million if you're worth $2 billion into perspective for more normal human beings. That is a loss of 1.5% of net worth. If someone with a more normal net worth of $200,000 lost 1.5% on an investment, that would amount to $3000. They wouldn't be happy about it, but it wouldn't mean too much in the grand scheme of things.
Sundog wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:27 pm
Well, this kerfuffle certainly took another interesting turn. I’d hate to owe Glen an apology…
But whatever… Glen and Arod/Lore should stfu until a more appropriate time. This isn’t what anyone should be worried about right now!
Well, I was way wrong on my thoughts about this deal, Sundog. I have been surmising that Lore/ARod were more likely than Glen to "keep the band together" next year and pay the lux tax (and even go into the second apron), but Woj's report is that it's exactly the opposite. He tweeted that the potential new owners were concerned about the tax, and planned to cut payroll enough to keep us below it. Glen became aware of this plan, and is trying to find a way to not turn the team over to the new ownership group because he thinks it would be bad for our chances of winning. Well, yeah...
I'm not a Glen hater like many here, but I have to admit I was excited about the prospect of having new celebrity owners who I thought might be more likely to "go for it". But Woj's tweet makes me see things through a different lens, and I'm put in the odd position of cheering for Glen to prevail in this dispute. Here's what I think is going on. Glen has said repeatedly that he intends to give most of his wealth away, so it stands to reason that paying lux tax doesn't bother him much. But Lore and ARod are still young and building their wealth. I guess I can understand why 2 guys in their position would be more reluctant to go all in and have to pay the tax.
So...go Glen!
FNG, You don't think that could have been a hit job by Glen's people? When exactly was that proposal made to the league? Could there have been other "if-then" scenarios presented (such as "if the Wolves go to WCF, we are willing to go to second apron", etc.). Obviously financial projections could change based on Wolves playoff success or lack thereof. Heck, if we get bounced in the first round it might make sense to go all in on doing a competitive rebuild around Ant.
I'm not taking anything anyone is saying at face value in this sordid affair.
Sundog wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:27 pm
Well, this kerfuffle certainly took another interesting turn. I’d hate to owe Glen an apology…
But whatever… Glen and Arod/Lore should stfu until a more appropriate time. This isn’t what anyone should be worried about right now!
Well, I was way wrong on my thoughts about this deal, Sundog. I have been surmising that Lore/ARod were more likely than Glen to "keep the band together" next year and pay the lux tax (and even go into the second apron), but Woj's report is that it's exactly the opposite. He tweeted that the potential new owners were concerned about the tax, and planned to cut payroll enough to keep us below it. Glen became aware of this plan, and is trying to find a way to not turn the team over to the new ownership group because he thinks it would be bad for our chances of winning. Well, yeah...
I'm not a Glen hater like many here, but I have to admit I was excited about the prospect of having new celebrity owners who I thought might be more likely to "go for it". But Woj's tweet makes me see things through a different lens, and I'm put in the odd position of cheering for Glen to prevail in this dispute. Here's what I think is going on. Glen has said repeatedly that he intends to give most of his wealth away, so it stands to reason that paying lux tax doesn't bother him much. But Lore and ARod are still young and building their wealth. I guess I can understand why 2 guys in their position would be more reluctant to go all in and have to pay the tax.
So...go Glen!
FNG, You don't think that could have been a hit job by Glen's people? When exactly was that proposal made to the league? Could there have been other "if-then" scenarios presented (such as "if the Wolves go to WCF, we are willing to go to second apron", etc.). Obviously financial projections could change based on Wolves playoff success or lack thereof. Heck, if we get bounced in the first round it might make sense to go all in on doing a competitive rebuild around Ant.
I'm not taking anything anyone is saying at face value in this sordid affair.
Yeah, we don't know who to believe, Q. But I generally find Woj pretty reliable, and I can see why younger owners might be less inclined to pay a tax than octogenerian Glen...regardless of how the team does this preseason. But certainly Woj could be wrong in this instance. This will take a while to play out.
Well, I was way wrong on my thoughts about this deal, Sundog. I have been surmising that Lore/ARod were more likely than Glen to "keep the band together" next year and pay the lux tax (and even go into the second apron), but Woj's report is that it's exactly the opposite. He tweeted that the potential new owners were concerned about the tax, and planned to cut payroll enough to keep us below it. Glen became aware of this plan, and is trying to find a way to not turn the team over to the new ownership group because he thinks it would be bad for our chances of winning. Well, yeah...
I'm not a Glen hater like many here, but I have to admit I was excited about the prospect of having new celebrity owners who I thought might be more likely to "go for it". But Woj's tweet makes me see things through a different lens, and I'm put in the odd position of cheering for Glen to prevail in this dispute. Here's what I think is going on. Glen has said repeatedly that he intends to give most of his wealth away, so it stands to reason that paying lux tax doesn't bother him much. But Lore and ARod are still young and building their wealth. I guess I can understand why 2 guys in their position would be more reluctant to go all in and have to pay the tax.
So...go Glen!
FNG, You don't think that could have been a hit job by Glen's people? When exactly was that proposal made to the league? Could there have been other "if-then" scenarios presented (such as "if the Wolves go to WCF, we are willing to go to second apron", etc.). Obviously financial projections could change based on Wolves playoff success or lack thereof. Heck, if we get bounced in the first round it might make sense to go all in on doing a competitive rebuild around Ant.
I'm not taking anything anyone is saying at face value in this sordid affair.
Yeah, we don't know who to believe, Q. But I generally find Woj pretty reliable, and I can see why younger owners might be less inclined to pay a tax than octogenerian Glen...regardless of how the team does this preseason. But certainly Woj could be wrong in this instance. This will take a while to play out.
Woj may be telling the truth in that there really may have been a proposal to avoid the tax, but perhaps his source didn't give him the entire context of how that proposal was positioned and whether there were any other scenarios submitted. Anyone in business knows that when making projections you make certain assumptions and then those projections can change if the assumptions turn out to be wrong.
This whole thing sucks. I'm personally siding with ARod and Lore, not because I think they could be the perfect owners or I believe every word they say, but because of Glen's track record. He's presided over the worst professional sports franchise in history. I'll take my chances with someone else!
