Trade Deadline

[Crazysauce]

I think Tulo is starting to decline a bit. His defense at short isnt what it once was and his contract is very high. That being said I would love to get the guy. I agree that I wouldnt trade Sano, Buxton, or Berrios. I would headline the deal around Gordon. We can have a shortstop that has a good 5 years for a guy who may never turn out. I really think we should try to keep Arcia as I see another Ortiz situation happening. Hunter isnt exactly spry at 40 and will need a guy to replace him. That guy is Arcia. I would add in Meyer and Kepler. I wouldnt really go much higher than that. We have been patient this long so let it come together and not jump the gun. I see us dealing Arcia though, I think hes the wrong guy to send out though.

Also would really like to see us make a play for Lucroy. Hes on a great contract and is an excellent defensive catcher who can hit. I would try to deal them Stewart and some throw ins for him and maybe have them throw in a reliever.

[Jester1534]

Just wanted to post this about how much Kurt is killing us behind the plate

Suzuki has been the team's primary catcher over the past two seasons. He is a proven veteran (this is his ninth year in the majors), is an above-average pitch-blocker and was productive offensively in 2014.

Worst Framing Catchers (2011-2015)
PLAYER STRIKE ZONE RUNS SAVED
Kurt Suzuki -48
Carlos Santan.-38
Ryan Doumit -35
Chris Iannetta -29
Nick Hundley -27


For all his positives, Suzuki's biggest negative is one with an enormous impact on the team's run prevention: He's a poor pitch-framer. Since 2011, Suzuki has cost his teams a total of 48 runs because of poor framing. That's the worst in baseball over that span.

While many teams, such as the Pirates and Rays, have clearly bought into the value of pitch-framing based on their moves in recent seasons, that acceptance is not universal. As such, the Twins probably could make a significant upgrade in run prevention without breaking the bank. We know just the guy ...

The pitch framing is something to consider but I am not going to worry that much about it either. WARP Suzuki is at the bottom of the catchers with 150 PAs or better but people talk about how bad he is hitting and I see its been bad but he is still around the middle or top of the bottom third of catchers in alot of offensive categories. My point is people always want some guy thats going to be an upgrade to Suzuki and yet I think people need to have reasonable expectations there. Its not a deep position and remember Suzuki was traded like every trade deadline for a few years because teams wanted him. He is on pace for one of his worst seasons at the plate right now but its also possible he regresses back towards his mean of his career hitting numbers which would be much more decent. I have no problem upgrading Suzuki I just think its not as simple as just getting any guy will be better, Sorry for the rant I don't know why I stick up for Kurt so much, lol

Man Monster I just cant agree with you, Kurt has throwin out 11 out of 58 base runners. His percentage of throwing out runners is .190 %
.40 worst than the next starting catcher, this is a huge problem espically with the royals in our division. Is it because he has a hot wife you like him so much lol.

Btw I think the two teams vying for Tulo will be the twins and mets but I just don't see the mets breaking up that pitching staff and do the Rockies really want a tommy John Wheeler?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Some good thoughts in this thread. I'll add:

Suzuki: One of my favorite guys, but not getting it done this year. Jester is right that he is awful at throwing out runners, but I agree with monster that he is likely to revert up to his hitting mean the rest of the year. His entire career he has been known for having professional at bats, and I think he will figure it out again. Jester, I heard yesterday that while his framing lags the rest of the league, his 2015 numbers are actually much improved. I rank the catching issue far behind relief pitching and SS.

Trade deadline: I think Terry Ryan is probably on the fence about being a buyer with the way this team has faded since the break. The next couple series will determine whether he is willing to make a move or not. With Santana unavailable for post-season, he may decide this isn't the year to go all in and instead save his prospects. I know this is knee jerk on my part, but last night made me less interested in Tulo.

Dozier: He's having a great season, but other teams are going to start noticing that he doesn't hit the breaking ball very well...case in point, his three K's on sliders last night against a very mediocre pitcher. Why would you ever give this guy a fastball? I'm worried about a big drop off the rest of the season.

Gibson: I told my son that he was going to pitch poorly last night, and I was right. While most of the Twins were at Disneyland with their families on their off day Monday, I suspect Gibby was on the golf course as usual. Last year, he pitched three times after the Twins had on off day (with good golfing weather) and didn't make it through the 5th inning any of the three times. He didn't look anything like himself last night, but looked exactly like he did last year after golfing. Mollie needs to out a stop to this.

[Monster]

Just wanted to post this about how much Kurt is killing us behind the plate

Suzuki has been the team's primary catcher over the past two seasons. He is a proven veteran (this is his ninth year in the majors), is an above-average pitch-blocker and was productive offensively in 2014.

Worst Framing Catchers (2011-2015)
PLAYER STRIKE ZONE RUNS SAVED
Kurt Suzuki -48
Carlos Santan.-38
Ryan Doumit -35
Chris Iannetta -29
Nick Hundley -27


For all his positives, Suzuki's biggest negative is one with an enormous impact on the team's run prevention: He's a poor pitch-framer. Since 2011, Suzuki has cost his teams a total of 48 runs because of poor framing. That's the worst in baseball over that span.

While many teams, such as the Pirates and Rays, have clearly bought into the value of pitch-framing based on their moves in recent seasons, that acceptance is not universal. As such, the Twins probably could make a significant upgrade in run prevention without breaking the bank. We know just the guy ...

The pitch framing is something to consider but I am not going to worry that much about it either. WARP Suzuki is at the bottom of the catchers with 150 PAs or better but people talk about how bad he is hitting and I see its been bad but he is still around the middle or top of the bottom third of catchers in alot of offensive categories. My point is people always want some guy thats going to be an upgrade to Suzuki and yet I think people need to have reasonable expectations there. Its not a deep position and remember Suzuki was traded like every trade deadline for a few years because teams wanted him. He is on pace for one of his worst seasons at the plate right now but its also possible he regresses back towards his mean of his career hitting numbers which would be much more decent. I have no problem upgrading Suzuki I just think its not as simple as just getting any guy will be better, Sorry for the rant I don't know why I stick up for Kurt so much, lol

Man Monster I just cant agree with you, Kurt has throwin out 11 out of 58 base runners. His percentage of throwing out runners is .190 %
.40 worst than the next starting catcher, this is a huge problem espically with the royals in our division. Is it because he has a hot wife you like him so much lol.

Btw I think the two teams vying for Tulo will be the twins and mets but I just don't see the mets breaking up that pitching staff and do the Rockies really want a tommy John Wheeler?

I hadn't looked at his throwing out base runners that's not good but I do know the past few years the Twins pitchers have been bad at helping out against the run game. Catcher is such a nuanced position but I won't argue that your point on his poor numbers throwing out base runners

I couldn't have told you for sure if Kurt was married or not so that's not it. Lol

My point isn't how good Kurt is but I look at guys that may be available I don't know if they are that significant of upgrades over him. Like I said I have no problem upgrading him and even adding another vet guy and hope one of them does something more positive would be good. It's really rough that nobody has even really been able to step into the backup role and There really hasn't been another option but stick with Suzuki. Pinto hasn't even been available either.

[Monster]

Some good thoughts in this thread. I'll add:

Suzuki: One of my favorite guys, but not getting it done this year. Jester is right that he is awful at throwing out runners, but I agree with monster that he is likely to revert up to his hitting mean the rest of the year. His entire career he has been known for having professional at bats, and I think he will figure it out again. Jester, I heard yesterday that while his framing lags the rest of the league, his 2015 numbers are actually much improved. I rank the catching issue far behind relief pitching and SS.

Trade deadline: I think Terry Ryan is probably on the fence about being a buyer with the way this team has faded since the break. The next couple series will determine whether he is willing to make a move or not. With Santana unavailable for post-season, he may decide this isn't the year to go all in and instead save his prospects. I know this is knee jerk on my part, but last night made me less interested in Tulo.

Dozier: He's having a great season, but other teams are going to start noticing that he doesn't hit the breaking ball very well...case in point, his three K's on sliders last night against a very mediocre pitcher. Why would you ever give this guy a fastball? I'm worried about a big drop off the rest of the season.

Gibson: I told my son that he was going to pitch poorly last night, and I was right. While most of the Twins were at Disneyland with their families on their off day Monday, I suspect Gibby was on the golf course as usual. Last year, he pitched three times after the Twins had on off day (with good golfing weather) and didn't make it through the 5th inning any of the three times. He didn't look anything like himself last night, but looked exactly like he did last year after golfing. Mollie needs to out a stop to this.

Interesting thoughts LST.

I think my brother has mentioned the golfing thing with Gibby also. I would think Mollie would address it at some point if that's really going on.

I am NOT worried about Dozier. He has had enough success over time and even showed legit signs of power before his first breakout season.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I hope you're right about Dozier, monster...and he did homer in the ASG off a low breaking ball. I just have a bad feeling that pitchers are going to discover that hole in his bat when he doesn't get a fastball. He's our MVP, so I hope I'm wrong.

The Gibson thing really makes me mad. I had tickets in San Francisco last summer to see him pitch, and he played Pebble Beach the day before...predictably, he got shelled. If you're getting paid that much money to pitch and golfing the day before negatively impacts your performance, quit golfing the day before! He can golf every day in the off season if he wants!

[Jester1534]

I hope you're right about Dozier, monster...and he did homer in the ASG off a low breaking ball. I just have a bad feeling that pitchers are going to discover that hole in his bat when he doesn't get a fastball. He's our MVP, so I hope I'm wrong.

The Gibson thing really makes me mad. I had tickets in San Francisco last summer to see him pitch, and he played Pebble Beach the day before...predictably, he got shelled. If you're getting paid that much money to pitch and golfing the day before negatively impacts your performance, quit golfing the day before! He can golf every day in the off season if he wants!

I hope you're right about Dozier, monster...and he did homer in the ASG off a low breaking ball. I just have a bad feeling that pitchers are going to discover that hole in his bat when he doesn't get a fastball. He's our MVP, so I hope I'm wrong.

The Gibson thing really makes me mad. I had tickets in San Francisco last summer to see him pitch, and he played Pebble Beach the day before...predictably, he got shelled. If you're getting paid that much money to pitch and golfing the day before negatively impacts your performance, quit golfing the day before! He can golf every day in the off season if he wants!

This was the same gripe ppl had with Hicks last year, that he was more worried about his golf game then studying pitchers.

As for Dozier, I'm a big believer in the 1500 bat rule. I had extensive talk with TK when I was young with my Dad and he said that 95% of he time you know what type off ball player is going to be after 1500 at bats. Dozier is around 2000 at bats now. LST I think if he had a breaking ball problem the league would've figured it out by now. For example look at Kennys Vargas numbers drop off compared to his first 200 at bats.

The league figures out hitters, look at Sano & Joey a Gallo right now obviously not the same hitter they both were when the first came up. The league adjusted and now it's time for them to make the adjustment.

Also side note this was a golf thing my dad won when I was like 16 so 2007ish but Tom Kelly said that the most disappointed player he ever coached was Jacque Jones, said he had all the talent to be the next Kirby but didn't love the game of baseball and didn't work hard.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Good point about the 1500 at bat rule, jester...that makes me feel better about Dozier and the breaking ball.

Funny that you mention Hicks and golfing, because he was with Gibson at Pebble Beach that day...and he was 0 for 2 the next day. Gibby gave up 5 runs and 2 homers in 5 innings.

TK was certainly consistent about his thoughts about Jacque Jones. I golfed with him and Dark Star about 10 years ago, and I asked him if he could have had the talent of anyone he ever coached, who would it have been. I thought he was going to say Puckett, or maybe Viola...but he said Jones! What a waste of talent.

[Jester1534]

Good point about the 1500 at bat rule, jester...that makes me feel better about Dozier and the breaking ball.

Funny that you mention Hicks and golfing, because he was with Gibson at Pebble Beach that day...and he was 0 for 2 the next day. Gibby gave up 5 runs and 2 homers in 5 innings.

TK was certainly consistent about his thoughts about Jacque Jones. I golfed with him and Dark Star about 10 years ago, and I asked him if he could have had the talent of anyone he ever coached, who would it have been. I thought he was going to say Puckett, or maybe Viola...but he said Jones! What a waste of talent.

Really LST that's crazy lol did he say anything else to you? The other things I remember him talking about was that he knew Christian Guzman wasn't that good of a baseball player and personally told terry Ryan not to sign him to extension. That Johan was going to be stud the first time he watched film on him. Also the last one I thought was interesting was that he was vietmley against trading AJ away to the Giants.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Good point about the 1500 at bat rule, jester...that makes me feel better about Dozier and the breaking ball.

Funny that you mention Hicks and golfing, because he was with Gibson at Pebble Beach that day...and he was 0 for 2 the next day. Gibby gave up 5 runs and 2 homers in 5 innings.

TK was certainly consistent about his thoughts about Jacque Jones. I golfed with him and Dark Star about 10 years ago, and I asked him if he could have had the talent of anyone he ever coached, who would it have been. I thought he was going to say Puckett, or maybe Viola...but he said Jones! What a waste of talent.

Really LST that's crazy lol did he say anything else to you? The other things I remember him talking about was that he knew Christian Guzman wasn't that good of a baseball player and personally told terry Ryan not to sign him to extension. That Johan was going to be stud the first time he watched film on him. Also the last one I thought was interesting was that he was vietmley against trading AJ away to the Giants.

Nah, nothing else. He was having a bad day on the course, and was kind of crabby about it. He rode in a cart with my friend who was hosting him, and I rode with Dark Star. Dark, on the other hand, was one of the most fun guys I ever golfed with. He and I shared an interest in boxing, so I would run into him from time to time at fights...quite a guy.

Those were interesting comments you got from TK...he was right about Guzman, but wrong about AJ...that deal brought us Nathan and Liriano! (and boof bonser)