Lip was right

[Q-is-here]

Rudy once again making 7-8 of his FTAs and also 6-8 from the field and a +21. He is proving his doubters wrong one game at a time, including me. Had a couple bobbles as usual, but kept that in check mostly. Still feels like he clogs the lane on Ant's drives and Ant almost never tries to pass it to him on his rolls, but oh well, whatever they are doing is working.

[Sundog]

Rudy sets an incredibly high floor for this team and Ant sets an incredibly high ceiling. I’m calling this thread cooked. Lip and others were wrong about Gobert.

But on a different topic, Lip is being proven right, building a great team vs creating a Super Team… this Wolves team has been developed organically (Ant, KAT, Jaden, Naz), with critical pieces added (Gobert, Conley, NAW) to build this wonderful team.

The contrast of our organic Wolves vs the Suns team built around superstars but not much else couldn’t be more stark.

[FNG]

Okay, I give up. I now agree that Lip was indeed right. It took several months for me to see the light, but it's clear now. If we can beat the defending champs in the playoffs by 26 on their home court without Rudy, do we need any more evidence that this was a disastrous trade? I want my draft picks back!!!!!!

[DNatagal]

Goes to show that Utah wasted a ton of prime Rudy with bad schemes and poor roster construction. Joe Ingles vs Jaden is a great example of choices made.

[Q-is-here]

Lip could still be right!

Keep in mind the premise of this thread isn't that Rudy hasn't helped the Wolves and is a negative. Heck, I don't even think you can say it was a bad trade if you end up #3 in the West and lose to the eventual champs in the playoffs. The premise is that he raises the floor, but potentially lowers your ceiling because of his limitations on offense. What if Rudy's salary was instead split between a middle-of-the road paid Center (say, a Daniel Gafford type) and a knock down wing shooter? Would the team be better off?

[Wolvesfan21]

Rudys lack of girth and weight seems to be a limiter against Jokic. He just gets beat down into the rim too easily. I still think he can do better though. Got to credit Joker for upping his MVP level, but still Rudy could be better too. I gave him a C for last game. He was mediocre. KAT was also mediocre on defense also. To win this series I think both will need to step up.

[Lipoli390]

Okay, I give up. I now agree that Lip was indeed right. It took several months for me to see the light, but it's clear now. If we can beat the defending champs in the playoffs by 26 on their home court without Rudy, do we need any more evidence that this was a disastrous trade? I want my draft picks back!!!!!!

Glad I checked back into this thread. Great to see you’ve finally come around, FNG.

[FNG]

Q and Lip, you didn't really think this thread wasn't going to get bumped, did you?

Brit Robson had some interesting observations on Dane Moore's podcast last night. He talked about how much he admires Finchie, and how his conversations with him have made him much smarter. But them he talked about one time last September that a conversation didn't go so well. Robson asked Finchie if he had second thoughts about the Rudy trade, and if he thought the Twin Towers experiment had any chance of succeeding. He said Finchie looked at him as if he had asked the stupidest question ever, and basically told him to be patient- everything was going to work out fine.

Then last night, the TNT guys said at halftime that Rudy's offensive ineptness was killing the Wolves, and Finchie needed to start Naz in his place to generate some offense. Instead of replacing him, Finchie started the second half by featuring Rudy on offense! Possession after possession they kept working the ball into Rudy, and he kept drawing fouls, which got the Wolves into the bonus very early in the half. Both Robson and the Denver podcasters said Rudy's ability to get the Wolves into the bonus was a key factor in the comeback.

Rudy's offense is unconventional and his hands are often horrible. But his role on the offense is important...setting screens, rolling to the basket, and pounding the offensive glass. It ain't very pretty, but it seems to be effective often. Obviously we got him for his defense, and anything he provides on offense is a bonus. Right now I'm not missing Vando, Beasley, Beverley, Balmaro, and three more picks that are likely to be in the high 20's very much.

[Q-is-here]

Q and Lip, you didn't really think this thread wasn't going to get bumped, did you?

Brit Robson had some interesting observations on Dane Moore's podcast last night. He talked about how much he admires Finchie, and how his conversations with him have made him much smarter. But them he talked about one time last September that a conversation didn't go so well. Robson asked Finchie if he had second thoughts about the Rudy trade, and if he thought the Twin Towers experiment had any chance of succeeding. He said Finchie looked at him as if he had asked the stupidest question ever, and basically told him to be patient- everything was going to work out fine.

Then last night, the TNT guys said at halftime that Rudy's offensive ineptness was killing the Wolves, and Finchie needed to start Naz in his place to generate some offense. Instead of replacing him, Finchie started the second half by featuring Rudy on offense! Possession after possession they kept working the ball into Rudy, and he kept drawing fouls, which got the Wolves into the bonus very early in the half. Both Robson and the Denver podcasters said Rudy's ability to get the Wolves into the bonus was a key factor in the comeback.

Rudy's offense is unconventional and his hands are often horrible. But his role on the offense is important...setting screens, rolling to the basket, and pounding the offensive glass. It ain't very pretty, but it seems to be effective often. Obviously we got him for his defense, and anything he provides on offense is a bonus. Right now I'm not missing Vando, Beasley, Beverley, Balmaro, and three more picks that are likely to be in the high 20's very much.

Now that the Wolves have made the NBA Final Four, I'm fine declaring Lip and I WRONG.

There may be a bit of a difference in our original positions, however. I didn't argue that it was a bad trade like Lip did; I argued that Lip was right because I didn't think it would propel us to contender status. I saw it as a logical way to get Ant and Jaden early playoff experience, but felt the ceiling was constrained by Rudy's offensive issues.

Well, even if we lose to Dallas here, there is almost no one on the planet that thinks we have less than a solid chance to win it all now that we got past Denver. That makes us a contender by definition.

I will also refer to Dane's podcast where they brought up the similarity of the Wolves to an NFL Superbowl contender with an elite defense and "game manager QB" versus a top tier QB. It doesn't happen often, but it can happen. I think it's a great analogy, because if you look at how our sub-optimal offense has been optimized by reducing turnovers, that also translates to our defense by limiting free possessions for the other team and fast-break chances.

As for Rudy, he is not the ideal fit for Ant offensively. Ant constantly looks him off on his rolls and dives to the hoop and Rudy in turn clogs the lane. However, the good things Rudy does overall outweigh the bad. Clearly.

[ItsJustSoSab]

Man, this is the first time I can remember disagreeing with a Q take so much. I guess you can point to his time on the Jazz, but there is really no evidence that the wolves can't make a deep playoff run when Gobert has multiple great players around him. I don't see why he can't play most of the game in the playoffs and then they take him out for the last 6 minutes if necessary. Is that ideal? Hell no, but if it leads to wins, who cares!

Ha, healthy disagreements are welcomed here!

I can see the scenario you posit on Rudy's next contract when he's older and starts slowing down a bit. But given his contract size, ego, and Finch's determination to make the 2-big system work, I just don't see Rudy getting benched in crunch time minutes while he's on his current deal.

And look, we haven't even needed to take Gobert out the last 6 minutes! Deep playoff run baby!