GDT: The Promise of Hope

[Lipoli390]

Two things that have been exposed with this team.

1. We are unable to play fast break basketball on both ends.

2. We need to sacrifice a bit of defense for offense.

Agree on #2 especially. Doncic and Irving have seen everything thrown at them in their career defensively. Doncic is arguably the 2nd best player in the world after Jokic and Irving is an elite shot maker. You just have to be able to out-offense a duo like that and we are just too damn clunky on that end.

I was there last night and it was miserable. I might write up a final season report in lieu of a game report. For now, I’ll just echo both of you. Q - I think you nailed it with your characterization of our offense as “clunky.” It was only a matter of time before our clunky offensive would catch up with us. I thought it might not be until the NBA finals against the Celtics who, I believe, would have swept us. It turned out to be Dallas. However, it’s worth noting that one of our four losses to Dallas was but 1 point and another was by 3 points. If KAT’s shooting and Ant’s decision making in crunch time had been only slightly better, we’d be headed back to Dallas for game 6 down 3-2.

Not sure where we go from here. We went from a 46-win team and 1st-round 6-game loss to the top-seeded Grizzlies two years ago to a 56-win team that lost 4-1 in the Conference Finals. The difference was a combination of several factors: (1) Ant’s substantial improvement from a 2nd-year talent to an all-star bordering on superstar; (2) Jaden’s substantial improvement from a 2nd-year player who played well defensively to a great defender with some offensive output; (3) Naz Reid’s improvement from a complete non-factor to a 6th-man of the year contributor who would be starting for most NBA teams; (4) the addition of Slo MO’s savvy, leadership and defense; (5) the addition of NAW’s defense and sporadically good contributions on the offensive end; and (6) the addition of Rudy. In other words, it took a lot of really big improvements to go from 46 to 56 wins and advance from a 6-game 1st-round loss to the Conference Finals.

The question is whether this roster has enough potential improvement to take the next step. If we think it does, then we bring this group back with all the encumbrances of the 2nd apron and see what happens. If not, then we trade KAT and/or Rudy and retool with younger players around Ant, Jaden and Naz. I keep coming back to Ant being only 22 years old. I just don’t think it was ever realistic to expect this team to win a championship with him as our best player at that age. We made it further than I thought we would, but our run ended with a thud that underscores how much better we need to be. I think it’s reasonable to expect significant improvement from Ant. He can improve a lot by simply making better decisions with the ball and that should naturally come with experience. Jaden remains a bit of an enigma. I see the offensive upside, but I’m left wondering whether he’ll ever really tap into it consistently. If he does, that will provide a huge boost to this team. Yet, I still wonder whether we can unlock the full offensive potential of Ant and Jaden (and hence the team) with Rudy on the roster. Rudy had a career year; he won’t improve and might even decline.

My inclination is to bring the team back for another run in spite of the dreaded second apron. If it doesn’t work out, we can start the re-tooling process next February at the trade deadline or next offseason.

[TheGrey08]

Feel like I'm my seven seasons as a half season ticket holder, this was probably the most painful n game I've watched in person. However, I don't want to get too down about it. I don't know if it was fatigue or the stress of the stage, but the team that showed up in this series was not the team that showed up in the regular season and the prior series. They will grow from it, just like they grew from the previous season. Ant will only get better. Serious injuries aside, I'll looking forward to next season.

They were gassed. Multiple players have talked about it since the game. It's like KG said. They were not prepared with that next level of physical/mental conditioning. That's something most of them have to learn from experience.

[rapsuperstar31]

Feel like I'm my seven seasons as a half season ticket holder, this was probably the most painful n game I've watched in person. However, I don't want to get too down about it. I don't know if it was fatigue or the stress of the stage, but the team that showed up in this series was not the team that showed up in the regular season and the prior series. They will grow from it, just like they grew from the previous season. Ant will only get better. Serious injuries aside, I'll looking forward to next season.

They were gassed. Multiple players have talked about it since the game. It's like KG said. They were not prepared with that next level of physical/mental conditioning. That's something most of them have to learn from experience.

We needed to close out Denver faster. That week we had off in between the season and the Phoenix game got them in great shape training. Ant said it got him in the best shape of his life. We had another week off after sweeping Phoenix. If we could have beaten Denver in 5, I think we would have been a lot less gassed and able to take on Dallas more effectively.

[Coolbreeze44]

The more I consider our options the more I'm convinced we need to move on from either KAT or Rudy. KAT's contract is going to make him hard to move, and even though he was inconsistent, I think he can be a #3 on a championship team. The time to move KAT was 3 years ago when his value was at its zenith. I think we need to make the best of him being here. Rudy on the other hand makes some sense. I'm not sure I can stomach watching him fumble-fuck the ball away for another season. He's been a good player for us, but his limitations were magnified in these playoffs. He won't bring the same haul we gave up to get him, but we should be able to get a nice player and a pick for him. TC might not want to move him because of the price he paid, but I think we would be better next season if he did. We could possibly draft Zach Edey to replace him, and get our future PG in the trade.

I disagree with the run it back sentiment. We are not good enough as is. I will say again that you have to continue to get better or you will fall behind. One of these centers needs to go, and it shouldn't be NAZ. Today I think the guy on the block should be Rudy.

[Wolvesfan21]

Feel like I'm my seven seasons as a half season ticket holder, this was probably the most painful n game I've watched in person. However, I don't want to get too down about it. I don't know if it was fatigue or the stress of the stage, but the team that showed up in this series was not the team that showed up in the regular season and the prior series. They will grow from it, just like they grew from the previous season. Ant will only get better. Serious injuries aside, I'll looking forward to next season.

They were gassed. Multiple players have talked about it since the game. It's like KG said. They were not prepared with that next level of physical/mental conditioning. That's something most of them have to learn from experience.

I agree, I think a lot of it was mental. Both Ant and Naz said they were drained physically in the post game pressers. Ant looked it for sure. He didn't have that burst and was super gassed at the end of game 1 which was right there to win.

They had time off to get ready for Phoenix and amp up. Prove themselves to the world. It felt like they weren't really ready to take on Dallas after such a big win against Denver in game 7. They looked too drained mentally and physically. Even saying that they were close to winning game 1 and 2.

My feeling is running it back makes the most sense. Unless you can get two good players for KAT and cut salary too. A starting PG and a third big who can shoot and defend both adequately (these guys don't grow on trees however so I see it as a long shot).

[TheGrey08]

They were gassed. Multiple players have talked about it since the game. It's like KG said. They were not prepared with that next level of physical/mental conditioning. That's something most of them have to learn from experience.

I agree, I think a lot of it was mental. Both Ant and Naz said they were drained physically in the post game pressers. Ant looked it for sure. He didn't have that burst and was super gassed at the end of game 1 which was right there to win.

They had time off to get ready for Phoenix and amp up. Prove themselves to the world. It felt like they weren't really ready to take on Dallas after such a big win against Denver in game 7. They looked too drained mentally and physically. Even saying that they were close to winning game 1 and 2.

My feeling is running it back makes the most sense. Unless you can get two good players for KAT and cut salary too. A starting PG and a third big who can shoot and defend both adequately (these guys don't grow on trees however so I see it as a long shot).

Right and the biggest takeaway for me in that presser is Ant essentially saying he now knows what level of physical and mental conditioning he needs to have during the summer to compete for a championship. He learned this at 22. KG learned this at age 28. That's pretty huge and he won't be the only young guy to have learned this.

I also wonder about his fall in game 7. None of which are excuses, it was still super disappointing to lay a giant egg at home, but understanding things more and having more context is good.

As far as running it back with the top 7 guys, I have no issue with it in terms of the players. I just wish Rudy was making 30m instead of 43m next year. Agreed on PG, getting a young PG to backup and reduce Conley's minutes would be big, as well as a 3 & D bench guy to take some pressure off Jaden/Ant and man would I love to have a Lively type coming off the bench too lol

[mjs34]

The more I consider our options the more I'm convinced we need to move on from either KAT or Rudy. KAT's contract is going to make him hard to move, and even though he was inconsistent, I think he can be a #3 on a championship team. The time to move KAT was 3 years ago when his value was at its zenith. I think we need to make the best of him being here. Rudy on the other hand makes some sense. I'm not sure I can stomach watching him fumble-fuck the ball away for another season. He's been a good player for us, but his limitations were magnified in these playoffs. He won't bring the same haul we gave up to get him, but we should be able to get a nice player and a pick for him. TC might not want to move him because of the price he paid, but I think we would be better next season if he did. We could possibly draft Zach Edey to replace him, and get our future PG in the trade.

I disagree with the run it back sentiment. We are not good enough as is. I will say again that you have to continue to get better or you will fall behind. One of these centers needs to go, and it shouldn't be NAZ. Today I think the guy on the block should be Rudy.

I completely agree with the Rudy sentiments. It is either trade him or upgrade coaching with a more offensive minded guy. Whatever system we were running under Finch was not working with Rudy, KAT, and Ant. We cant have offensive talent like KAT and Ant struggling for space due to Rudy clogging things up while struggling to finish inside.

The question is how much will our defense suffer without Rudy. I am not worried about the shot blocking as our defense was more dependent on our perimeter guys.

[Q-is-here]

Two things that have been exposed with this team.

1. We are unable to play fast break basketball on both ends.

2. We need to sacrifice a bit of defense for offense.

Agree on #2 especially. Doncic and Irving have seen everything thrown at them in their career defensively. Doncic is arguably the 2nd best player in the world after Jokic and Irving is an elite shot maker. You just have to be able to out-offense a duo like that and we are just too damn clunky on that end.

I was there last night and it was miserable. I might write up a final season report in lieu of a game report. For now, I’ll just echo both of you. Q - I think you nailed it with your characterization of our offense as “clunky.” It was only a matter of time before our clunky offensive would catch up with us. I thought it might not be until the NBA finals against the Celtics who, I believe, would have swept us. It turned out to be Dallas. However, it’s worth noting that one of our four losses to Dallas was but 1 point and another was by 3 points. If KAT’s shooting and Ant’s decision making in crunch time had been only slightly better, we’d be headed back to Dallas for game 6 down 3-2.

Not sure where we go from here. We went from a 46-win team and 1st-round 6-game loss to the top-seeded Grizzlies two years ago to a 56-win team that lost 4-1 in the Conference Finals. The difference was a combination of several factors: (1) Ant’s substantial improvement from a 2nd-year talent to an all-star bordering on superstar; (2) Jaden’s substantial improvement from a 2nd-year player who played well defensively to a great defender with some offensive output; (3) Naz Reid’s improvement from a complete non-factor to a 6th-man of the year contributor who would be starting for most NBA teams; (4) the addition of Slo MO’s savvy, leadership and defense; (5) the addition of NAW’s defense and sporadically good contributions on the offensive end; and (6) the addition of Rudy. In other words, it took a lot of really big improvements to go from 46 to 56 wins and advance from a 6-game 1st-round loss to the Conference Finals.

The question is whether this roster has enough potential improvement to take the next step. If we think it does, then we bring this group back with all the encumbrances of the 2nd apron and see what happens. If not, then we trade KAT and/or Rudy and retool with younger players around Ant, Jaden and Naz. I keep coming back to Ant being only 22 years old. I just don’t think it was ever realistic to expect this team to win a championship with him as our best player at that age. We made it further than I thought we would, but our run ended with a thud that underscores how much better we need to be. I think it’s reasonable to expect significant improvement from Ant. He can improve a lot by simply making better decisions with the ball and that should naturally come with experience. Jaden remains a bit of an enigma. I see the offensive upside, but I’m left wondering whether he’ll ever really tap into it consistently. If he does, that will provide a huge boost to this team. Yet, I still wonder whether we can unlock the full offensive potential of Ant and Jaden (and hence the team) with Rudy on the roster. Rudy had a career year; he won’t improve and might even decline.

My inclination is to bring the team back for another run in spite of the dreaded second apron. If it doesn’t work out, we can start the re-tooling process next February at the trade deadline or next offseason.

Sorry you had to witness that game in person Lip. Who knows what's going to happen this offseason? Buckle up.

[Q-is-here]

The more I consider our options the more I'm convinced we need to move on from either KAT or Rudy. KAT's contract is going to make him hard to move, and even though he was inconsistent, I think he can be a #3 on a championship team. The time to move KAT was 3 years ago when his value was at its zenith. I think we need to make the best of him being here. Rudy on the other hand makes some sense. I'm not sure I can stomach watching him fumble-fuck the ball away for another season. He's been a good player for us, but his limitations were magnified in these playoffs. He won't bring the same haul we gave up to get him, but we should be able to get a nice player and a pick for him. TC might not want to move him because of the price he paid, but I think we would be better next season if he did. We could possibly draft Zach Edey to replace him, and get our future PG in the trade.

I disagree with the run it back sentiment. We are not good enough as is. I will say again that you have to continue to get better or you will fall behind. One of these centers needs to go, and it shouldn't be NAZ. Today I think the guy on the block should be Rudy.

I completely agree with the Rudy sentiments. It is either trade him or upgrade coaching with a more offensive minded guy. Whatever system we were running under Finch was not working with Rudy, KAT, and Ant. We cant have offensive talent like KAT and Ant struggling for space due to Rudy clogging things up while struggling to finish inside.

The question is how much will our defense suffer without Rudy. I am not worried about the shot blocking as our defense was more dependent on our perimeter guys.

I think the question is how much do we think we drop off defensively by trading Rudy and does the offense improve enough to make up for it? And as clumsy as Rudy was offensively, he did some effective things out there in terms of screen setting, putting pressure on the rim, and drawing fouls. I don't think it's as simple as addition by subtraction offensively if he were to go.

[mjs34]

The more I consider our options the more I'm convinced we need to move on from either KAT or Rudy. KAT's contract is going to make him hard to move, and even though he was inconsistent, I think he can be a #3 on a championship team. The time to move KAT was 3 years ago when his value was at its zenith. I think we need to make the best of him being here. Rudy on the other hand makes some sense. I'm not sure I can stomach watching him fumble-fuck the ball away for another season. He's been a good player for us, but his limitations were magnified in these playoffs. He won't bring the same haul we gave up to get him, but we should be able to get a nice player and a pick for him. TC might not want to move him because of the price he paid, but I think we would be better next season if he did. We could possibly draft Zach Edey to replace him, and get our future PG in the trade.

I disagree with the run it back sentiment. We are not good enough as is. I will say again that you have to continue to get better or you will fall behind. One of these centers needs to go, and it shouldn't be NAZ. Today I think the guy on the block should be Rudy.

I completely agree with the Rudy sentiments. It is either trade him or upgrade coaching with a more offensive minded guy. Whatever system we were running under Finch was not working with Rudy, KAT, and Ant. We cant have offensive talent like KAT and Ant struggling for space due to Rudy clogging things up while struggling to finish inside.

The question is how much will our defense suffer without Rudy. I am not worried about the shot blocking as our defense was more dependent on our perimeter guys.

I think the question is how much do we think we drop off defensively by trading Rudy and does the offense improve enough to make up for it? And as clumsy as Rudy was offensively, he did some effective things out there in terms of screen setting, putting pressure on the rim, and drawing fouls. I don't think it's as simple as addition by subtraction offensively if he were to go.

I don't think any of this is simple, but we had two seasons to integrate Rudy all the while Ant has been improving his offensive game. We are a contending team, but our offense just doesn't seem to be clicking. I don't think it is likely that we change coaches, so the most logical step is looking at Rudy. Rudy does a lot of good things on the court, but he certainly has his warts as well. Rudy was played off the court in Utah, so this shouldn't come as a big surprise. I am in favor of keeping KAT over Rudy, but KAT has had some injury issues over the last couple seasons that need to be considered as well. I know I don't want to move both of them in the same season and take a chance reverting back to a playoff contender team.