TC’s Track Record with Wolves

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Lipoli390
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TC’s Track Record with Wolves

Post by Lipoli390 »

I loved TC’s deal for Conley and NAW. While I still don’t like the Rudy deal inasmuch as I consider it an overpay and believe their were better routes to improve without putting ourselves in the current second apron bind, I have to acknowledge that the deal did, in fact, make this team better. I thought the Slo Mo signing was also a nice move.

But then there’s the draft. And there’s no sugarcoating the fact that TC has been terrible thus far.

Two years ago TC had two late first round picks that he used on Kessler and Moore. He moved around to take Minott in the second round. Kessler seems OK, but he’s not lighting the world on fire and TC traded him away. Moore has turned out to be a complete bust. I loved the Minott pick at the time and I’m not ready to join those who have given up on him. He’s athletically gifted and I love his competitiveness and motor. But he just hasn’t progressed at all as a shooter and I’m beginning to question whether he has an NBA future.

Last year, TC had two second round picks that he maneuvered and eventually used to take Miller and Clark. Miller is physically gifted but didn’t progress at all last season. Worse yet, he showed alarming signs of following in the footsteps of Wes Johnson and Darrick Williams as a guy who lacks the seriousness and competitive drive to be an NBA player. If that turns out to be true about Miller then that’s a shameful failure by TC to fully understand the character of the player before drafting him. TC seems drawn to nice guys and I’m generally OK with that. But I’d feel better if I sensed that TC was drawn to guys who are serious, dedicated, mentally tough and highly competitive. The jury’s still out on Clark because his Achilles injury. But watching him play the role of sidekick to Moore’s clown act on the bench gives me pause.

TC’s main calling card when Wolves ownership made him an offer he couldn’t refuse to lure him out of Denver was his draft acumen. Now I’m wondering if his draft success in Denver resulted from the acumen of someone else in that organization. While TC was drafting Moore and Kessler in the late first round two years ago, the Nuggets drafted Braun. Right now, any sane Wolves fan or executive would happily trade Moore, Miller, Minott and Clark for Braun or Kessler and Moore for Braun.

Really good basketball executives can make bad picks. It happens. But there comes a point where an executive can’t be considered good at his job if he continues to make bad picks and doesn’t make a number of good ones along with one or two great ones. If drafting is just a roll of the dice then NBA teams shouldn’t spend millions of dollars on basketball front office executives, staff and scouts. Owners could simply review media draft reviews on Google and save a lot of money. Truth is, the best NBA teams have front office executives who draft well. Good drafting is foundation to the NBA success, especially for non-destination franchises like the Wolves. Thus far, TC has yet to prove that he’s good at this fundamental part of his job.

Bottom line is that tomorrow’s draft will be a pivotal moment for TC. He has no transactional flexibility to improve the team, which means any improvement from outside has to come through the draft. Moreover, we only have two first round picks in the next five years and no picks - 1st or 2nd - in 2027. TC has two picks tomorrow - a low first rounder and relatively high second rounder. He needs to hit on at least one of those and come away with a player at least as good as Braun but closer to Desmond Bane for immediate impact or a future elite player who requires development time. If he doesn’t, then I might be happy to see him exercise his option to leave next summer. I how not, because we need organizational continuity. But assuming we trade KAT or Rudy after next season for some future picks, I’m not sure I’d want TC making those picks if he hasn’t shown something more that we’ve seen from him so far.

I know this seems harsh, but this is a highly competitive League. Fans pay a lot of money to attend games and TC is paid a ton of money to make sure the team succeeds. So far, I have to credit TC for helping this team get to the Western Conference finals. It helped that he inherited Ant, Jaden, KAT and Naz. But to TC’s credit, he made a great deal to get Conley and NAW, did a nice job signing Slo Mo and acquired last season’s defensive player of the year. So give him a pass on his multiple draft whiffs the past two years. But no more passes from me. He needs to do something impressive tomorrow. :).
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FNG
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Re: TC’s Track Record with Wolves

Post by FNG »

Lip, nobody can argue that TC has not been successful (although I may substitute "lucky" for "successful") in his drafting the past two years. I've never liked Kessler, and I don't see a future for any of the other players TC has drafted except for possibly Clark. And I fully admit my hopes for Clark are based on not having seen him play in the NBA...hope springs eternal (until it doesn't)!

But I'll take this in another direction (not to provoke you, but because I really believe it). Abe said it last week somewhat facetiously, but I think it's largely true...finding gems outside of the lottery is very much like throwing darts at a dart board. You're much more likely to come up with a bust than a star when you're drafting in the 20s. And (here comes the unintentional provoking part ;) ), that has always been a reason why I've never been too concerned about what we gave up to bring in a defensive stud like Gobert. Although I liked Vando, nobody would call him a skilled player. And I was happy to jettison the other players in the deal. And since I mostly don't like players drafted in the late 20s, and I think this iteration of the Wolves should finish high in the standings for the next few years, the lost picks didn't and don't concern me either. If I'm not very excited about any of the players we've been talking about the past couple weeks, how can I be concerned about losing out on that caliber of player in alternating years? The 4 first round picks the Knicks just gave up for a player that I don't think will bring anywhere near the impact Rudy has demonstrates that the Knicks value late first round picks about as much as I do...not much.

So for me TC's moves to bring in Rudy, Conley and NAW in exchange for what I deem minimal assets is far more important than his swings and misses on his draft picks. And yes I recognize that there are diamonds to be found in the rough late in the first round, but generally when I review the back end of previous rounds I think "bust, bust, maybe okay, bust, bust, rotation player, bust, bust, etc). IF Clark ends up being a solid rotation player, I'll evaluate TC's drafting as about what I would expect. If he's a bust, I will say TC has not been very good (or very lucky?) at hitting the middle of the dart board. BUT...to me the results of his drafting is immaterial compared to his brilliance in bringing in 2 key starters and an excellent 6th or 7th man. And as this season progresses, we may find ourselves talking about how brilliant he was in stealing a guy like Monte Morris to back up Conley!

Of course I want TC to find a Jokic in tonight's draft at either 27 or 37...that would be terrific! But my expectations are low, and even if he doesn't find another rotation player tonight, I still have to give him a solid A for what he has done here.
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Carlos Danger
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Re: TC’s Track Record with Wolves

Post by Carlos Danger »

I'd also caution trying to evaluate someone's "motor" based on what you might see of them sitting on the bench. I get it - you want everyone to look the part and scowl. But man...it's 2024. We can accept the fact that not everyone is going to be the same. It's ok! Dennis Rodman was a complete buffoon when he wasn't on the court. But nobody would ever say he didn't have a good motor. Let's evaluate what we actually see....NBA minutes. Not the friggin G league which (at least last year) seemed to lack anything close to the structure of an NBA team. We need to see these guys play with other professional (NBA) players to really know what we have. It's just going to look different IMO (for better and worse).
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Q-is-here
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Re: TC’s Track Record with Wolves

Post by Q-is-here »

FNG, The problem is with the cap rules in place now, having a constant pipeline of rotational players on rookie deals is more important than ever. For example, It would be absolutely huge if Clark popped this year and eased the pain of losing NAW to free agency after next season. Leonard Miller caring about defense and maturing offensively would make Naz Reid or KAT more tradeable.

As for the dart analogy, I somewhat agree, but then I look at Sam Presti's track record, and boy, that's one really lucky guy. And man was David Kahn incredibly unlucky!

We have to remember that some folks are better at playing darts than others!
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FNG
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Re: TC’s Track Record with Wolves

Post by FNG »

Q-is-here wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:55 am FNG, The problem is with the cap rules in place now, having a constant pipeline of rotational players on rookie deals is more important than ever. For example, It would be absolutely huge if Clark popped this year and eased the pain of losing NAW to free agency after next season. Leonard Miller caring about defense and maturing offensively would make Naz Reid or KAT more tradeable.

As for the dart analogy, I somewhat agree, but then I look at Sam Presti's track record, and boy, that's one really lucky guy. And man was David Kahn incredibly unlucky!

We have to remember that some folks are better at playing darts than others!
Oh I agree that the Wolves cap and draft pick situation is going to be quite difficult to navigate. Yeah, it would be great if Clark becomes a rotation player and TC can hit with one of his picks this week. I'm just not holding my breath on either...again, more as a comment on the typical quality of picks after 20 more than an indictment of TC's talent evaluating. Presti has been more accurate with his dart throwing than most GMs. but even he has some duds he picked after 20!

I may be the only one here that gives TC an A for his work here the first two years (although I think even his harshest critics still view him reasonably favorably), and maybe that grade is too generous considering he is mostly responsible for the cap/draft predicament we are in. But I continue to marvel at how the value of what he gave up pales compared to the value of Rudy, Bite, NAW and Morris, and I think we have the right guy in place to navigate this tough situation.
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Lipoli390
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Re: TC’s Track Record with Wolves

Post by Lipoli390 »

Q-is-here wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:55 am FNG, The problem is with the cap rules in place now, having a constant pipeline of rotational players on rookie deals is more important than ever. For example, It would be absolutely huge if Clark popped this year and eased the pain of losing NAW to free agency after next season. Leonard Miller caring about defense and maturing offensively would make Naz Reid or KAT more tradeable.

As for the dart analogy, I somewhat agree, but then I look at Sam Presti's track record, and boy, that's one really lucky guy. And man was David Kahn incredibly unlucky!

We have to remember that some folks are better at playing darts than others!
I’ll just stand behind Q’s answer. And I’ll reiterate that if its just throwing darts at a dart board there’s no point paying millions of dollars for basketball execs, staff and scouts. Just survey the internet and throw your darts. But perhaps tonight was redemption night for TC. He made two picks I like. Let’s hope we don’t see them joining Moore’s clown show on the bench. Actually, let’s hope we don’t see Moore on the Wolves bench next season. :)
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Lipoli390
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Re: TC’s Track Record with Wolves

Post by Lipoli390 »

And I haven’t given up completely on Minott, Miller or Clark.
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Monster
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Re: TC’s Track Record with Wolves

Post by Monster »

Sometimes it may be easy to forget just how little Josh Minott has played the past. Few years. He didn't play much in Memphis. Since graduating from HS he has played less than 2000 minutes of basketball games in 3 years including summer league. I'm not saying there is for sure some sort of massive untapped potential there but he is still a young guy that turns 22 later this year. He did up some stats like blocks and steals while upping his assists...in 12 g-league games. There simply isn't a great deal of sample size for the guy. I'll say this if the Wolves thought he was that far off from being able to contribute why wouldn't they have had him playing way more games in Iowa? Moore played 4 more games than Minott did.

It will be interesting to see what the Wolves do with 37 today.
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