TheFuture wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:07 pm
They wanted Bridges, not KAT. Paid the cross-state tax for it. They overpaid.
He's an ironman for Thibs and the Villanova connection. You don't think the Knicks don't see that they potentially(likely) can re-sign all 4 of those buddies at a discount, while actually contending for once?
I don't think they anticipated losing Hartenstein either, 29mil per for the first two years from Presti was out of left field. Especially when I believe it was the first FA signing this year. Presti isn't known to be one to go and set the market, usually he waits for things to unfold.
Well if Knicks overpaid, then we as sure as sh*t overpaid too. I would have preferred Bridges over Gobert as he is much younger and can be just as impactful as a two-way player.
First, Bridges demanded to go to the Knicks. That drove the price too. You glossed over the Villanova connection part.
Second, while Bridges is a great player, I do not see him elevating last years team to the #1 defense and helping us reach the WCF like Gobert did. KAT and Naz as our Centers would not hold down the middle, we've seen that.
Gobert trade happened 2 years ago. Bridges was on a long cost-controlled contract then. The Suns wanted KD, not what we gave up for Gobert.
TheFuture wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:07 pm
They wanted Bridges, not KAT. Paid the cross-state tax for it. They overpaid.
He's an ironman for Thibs and the Villanova connection. You don't think the Knicks don't see that they potentially(likely) can re-sign all 4 of those buddies at a discount, while actually contending for once?
I don't think they anticipated losing Hartenstein either, 29mil per for the first two years from Presti was out of left field. Especially when I believe it was the first FA signing this year. Presti isn't known to be one to go and set the market, usually he waits for things to unfold.
Well if Knicks overpaid, then we as sure as sh*t overpaid too. I would have preferred Bridges over Gobert as he is much younger and can be just as impactful as a two-way player.
First, Bridges demanded to go to the Knicks. That drove the price too. You glossed over the Villanova connection part.
Second, while Bridges is a great player, I do not see him elevating last years team to the #1 defense and helping us reach the WCF like Gobert did. KAT and Naz as our Centers would not hold down the middle, we've seen that.
Gobert trade happened 2 years ago. Bridges was on a long cost-controlled contract then. The Suns wanted KD, not what we gave up for Gobert.
Rudy helped get us to WCF, but Bridges helped get Suns to finals. Bridges is 27 and Rudy is 32, so even if trade occurred two years ago, Bridges' relative youth makes him more attractive. Then his contract is less problematic. Rudy put us in Second Apron situation. What makes Bridges so enticing is he is a very good player on both of sides of the ball. At Phoenix, he was a lock down perimeter defender and was a very efficient scorer. When he played for Nets, he was on a terrible team where he was constantly doubled and had to play lead scorer when he's better as a second or third offensive option. He should have a similar role in New York to what he had in Phoenix and he should thrive. If there is one team that can beat Boston, it might be New York if they can stay healthy, although if OKC gets a star at the deadline they might be another team that can beat Boston.
KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:53 pm
Well if Knicks overpaid, then we as sure as sh*t overpaid too. I would have preferred Bridges over Gobert as he is much younger and can be just as impactful as a two-way player.
First, Bridges demanded to go to the Knicks. That drove the price too. You glossed over the Villanova connection part.
Second, while Bridges is a great player, I do not see him elevating last years team to the #1 defense and helping us reach the WCF like Gobert did. KAT and Naz as our Centers would not hold down the middle, we've seen that.
Gobert trade happened 2 years ago. Bridges was on a long cost-controlled contract then. The Suns wanted KD, not what we gave up for Gobert.
Rudy helped get us to WCF, but Bridges helped get Suns to finals. Bridges is 27 and Rudy is 32, so even if trade occurred two years ago, Bridges' relative youth makes him more attractive. Then his contract is less problematic. Rudy put us in Second Apron situation. What makes Bridges so enticing is he is a very good player on both of sides of the ball. At Phoenix, he was a lock down perimeter defender and was a very efficient scorer. When he played for Nets, he was on a terrible team where he was constantly doubled and had to play lead scorer when he's better as a second or third offensive option. He should have a similar role in New York to what he had in Phoenix and he should thrive. If there is one team that can beat Boston, it might be New York if they can stay healthy, although if OKC gets a star at the deadline they might be another team that can beat Boston.
You're missing the point that the Suns wanted KD next to Booker to let go of Bridges. Not the scrap heap of players and picks we sent out for Gobert. The KD trade also happened a year later, as the Suns ran back their team. Then a year after that (presently), Bridges told the Nets he will not be extending and wanted to go to the Knicks.
Doc Rivers made good use of Shake, but Finch really struggles to integrate new players (especially in a bench role) ala Shake, Troy Brown and Monte last year and some others in prior years. So Shake is a zero with Finch, but maybe with another head coach and consistent minutes, he'll revert to his Philly form. Shake is a great guy, so I hope it works out for him.
I'm not sure that is accurate. Troy Brown played well for the Wolves earlier in the season before falling off the last month or so. NAW took a week or 2 after coming over to be effective. It's worth remembering Monte Morris only played 6 games last season before coming over in the trade. He wasn't bad in the regular season statistically except shooting 2 point shots which probably shouldn't be that surprising considering he had barely played coming back from injury.
The reality is several guards including Russell ended up playing well offensively under Finch. I thought the Shake signing was going to be a good one but it didn't work out. Finch may not have been the right coach for him but I'm not sure I buy that Finch struggles to integrate bench players especially guards.
If the Nets even keep him it may be a decent opportunity for Shake to get his career back on track. The Nets are basically in full rebuild mode they may see if they can rehab him and then move him for a small asset. If Shake is a guy that can actually play he will show it. I do think he can play but it didn't work last year in MN. He may need more structure in an offense to be successful. If that's the case that's more on the Wolves organization not seeing that than on Finch and his coaching staff in season.
DLO was given starter minutes, so I don't even know why you bring him up. NAW played for Finch in New Orleans and he is a pet of Finchy and got starter minutes, so NAW was brought in to a situation that could help him succeed. So, I don't think the NAW situation is comparable. If Shake had been given starter minutes, he might have been successful. His track record is quite good as a starter. But Finch used him in a way that pretty much guaranteed that he'd disappoint. He played off ball most of time and Wolves just rarely passed to him and given how few chances he got, he pressed his shot a bit. His stint with Philly was much longer and he did real well when he got a consistent role. TC loved Shake, but apparently Finch wasn't a big fan even though he talked up Shake's defense. Shakes minutes markedly were less than Philly, Troy Brown's minutes were significantly less under Finch and same goes for Monte. I liked Monte as much as I liked Shake, but felt he got a raw deal too. I was a fan of TB as well, but he didn't get much chance here. Meanwhile NAW, Finch's pet got lots of minutes even when he sucked. Bryn Forbes played well for two teams, but was trash with Finch. Common denominator is Finch likes to play favorites, doesn't rest guys much at all (even with 20 point leads) and doesn't give many of his bench players opportunities to get going and freezes guys out even when they've had success elsewhere.
Good point on Finch coaching NAW before. I don't know why you expected Milton to get more opportunities than he did and quite frankly he got stuck with longer than he deserved people on this board and elsewhere were mad he stayed in the rotation as long as he did. I was not one of those people. He was signed for a 6th man bench role. Troy Brown Jr simply wasn't signed for a big role I don't know what you were expecting there either. McLaughlin arguably played better than Morris I'm not sure what Finch was supposed to do there. Forbes has not played in the league since leaving the Wolves. That may be due to other things but he was brought here to do one thing make 3's and he couldn't do it. It's possible that having a lesser role was part of that. Maybe he wasn't built for that type of role. That was one thing I wondered about but figured he would still be fine since he had shot so well for so many years. Free agents or draft picks don't always work out that's why teams always need to have multiple options and look at ways they can fix issues with the roster.
Now I think the thing most can agree with is Finch hasn't played young guys and that's been discussed quite a bit recently.
I'm not sure that is accurate. Troy Brown played well for the Wolves earlier in the season before falling off the last month or so. NAW took a week or 2 after coming over to be effective. It's worth remembering Monte Morris only played 6 games last season before coming over in the trade. He wasn't bad in the regular season statistically except shooting 2 point shots which probably shouldn't be that surprising considering he had barely played coming back from injury.
The reality is several guards including Russell ended up playing well offensively under Finch. I thought the Shake signing was going to be a good one but it didn't work out. Finch may not have been the right coach for him but I'm not sure I buy that Finch struggles to integrate bench players especially guards.
If the Nets even keep him it may be a decent opportunity for Shake to get his career back on track. The Nets are basically in full rebuild mode they may see if they can rehab him and then move him for a small asset. If Shake is a guy that can actually play he will show it. I do think he can play but it didn't work last year in MN. He may need more structure in an offense to be successful. If that's the case that's more on the Wolves organization not seeing that than on Finch and his coaching staff in season.
DLO was given starter minutes, so I don't even know why you bring him up. NAW played for Finch in New Orleans and he is a pet of Finchy and got starter minutes, so NAW was brought in to a situation that could help him succeed. So, I don't think the NAW situation is comparable. If Shake had been given starter minutes, he might have been successful. His track record is quite good as a starter. But Finch used him in a way that pretty much guaranteed that he'd disappoint. He played off ball most of time and Wolves just rarely passed to him and given how few chances he got, he pressed his shot a bit. His stint with Philly was much longer and he did real well when he got a consistent role. TC loved Shake, but apparently Finch wasn't a big fan even though he talked up Shake's defense. Shakes minutes markedly were less than Philly, Troy Brown's minutes were significantly less under Finch and same goes for Monte. I liked Monte as much as I liked Shake, but felt he got a raw deal too. I was a fan of TB as well, but he didn't get much chance here. Meanwhile NAW, Finch's pet got lots of minutes even when he sucked. Bryn Forbes played well for two teams, but was trash with Finch. Common denominator is Finch likes to play favorites, doesn't rest guys much at all (even with 20 point leads) and doesn't give many of his bench players opportunities to get going and freezes guys out even when they've had success elsewhere.
Good point on Finch coaching NAW before. I don't know why you expected Milton to get more opportunities than he did and quite frankly he got stuck with longer than he deserved people on this board and elsewhere were mad he stayed in the rotation as long as he did. I was not one of those people. He was signed for a 6th man bench role. Troy Brown Jr simply wasn't signed for a big role I don't know what you were expecting there either. McLaughlin arguably played better than Morris I'm not sure what Finch was supposed to do there. Forbes has not played in the league since leaving the Wolves. That may be due to other things but he was brought here to do one thing make 3's and he couldn't do it. It's possible that having a lesser role was part of that. Maybe he wasn't built for that type of role. That was one thing I wondered about but figured he would still be fine since he had shot so well for so many years. Free agents or draft picks don't always work out that's why teams always need to have multiple options and look at ways they can fix issues with the roster.
Now I think the thing most can agree with is Finch hasn't played young guys and that's been discussed quite a bit recently.
Shake about to be on his 5th team in 3 years. The 76ers didn’t bring him back at a cheap price the wolves got him for, he sucked with the wolves, he didn’t stick with the pistons a rebuilding team (they did keep Troy Brown), didn’t get minutes with the Knicks even with a ton of injuries they faced. It’s a shake Milton is not a good regular rotation player in the nba and not a finch does not play “new” guys
And in Finchie's defense, not playing second round picks that were 19 and 20 years old on a team trying to establish itself in the top tier is hardly a worthy criticism. Especially when the team was relatively healthy throughout the year.
Now this year will offer some different opportunities. Those second round picks are a year older and have another year of experience under their belts (albeit not much in NBA games). And we have two rookie 1st round picks, but Dilly was a top-10 pick for a reason so will have an opportunity to play, and TSJ is an older rookie that might also have an opportunity to play.
