Not an ANT fan page

[Coolbreeze44]

Thanks to Bleedspeed for teeing up this thread. Perhaps we can limit discussions of Ant's personal issues to this thread, and only discuss his basketball performance in others.

It's a complicated issue. Can we enjoy watching a player whose personal behavior is despicable? Can we listen to and enjoy Michael Jackson's music? Can we watch a movie produced by Harvey Weinstein? Heck, even though it happened hundred of years ago, can we appreciate the art of DaVinci (who was accused of molesting young boys)? My opinion is yes...we need to separate the horrid behavior of the man from the skill which we enjoy, while at the same time condemning their poor behavior.

I agree with some here who wonder how each of us would act if we were 23 year old celebrities with millions of dollars. And I agree that Ant is not alone in making poor choices. But there is some evidence that Ant's behavior is much worse than even the average NBA player, and we need to recognize that and call it out...hopefully only in this thread. He seems to have no remorse for his repeated out of wedlock pregnancies, and his texts reflect a person with no empathy or concern for the welfare of others. He's such a dichotomy though, because it's so easy to like the guy at the same time...his childlike enthusiasm is quite endearing. But two things can be true at the same time...he is both a lovable charismatic young man, while also displaying horrible narcissistic non-empathic qualities.

But this is a basketball board, so while I abhor Ant's off-court behaviors, my main admittedly selfish concern is how does his character impact the Timberwolves. And I've ben making the same case for over a year now...my concern is that Ant might love the "NBA life" more than he loves winning, and this may hold him back. I contrasted his on-court behavior during the Laker game with that of two real winners...Davis and James. Ant seemed more interested in yakking it up with his summer Olympic teammates than he did in winning...and they in contrast seemed to be swatting him away like an annoying bug. I've said it before and I'll say it again...I worry that Ant may lack the gravitas needed to reach his enormous ceiling. I look back at the behavior of the top 100 players of all time, and Ant seems different to me. Wilt for example may have been banging a different woman ever night, but when he got on the court, he was all business. You never saw him chatting up his opponents on the court during he game...he just wanted to destroy him.

We don't know for sure how Ant's "social life" might be impacting his on court play. But late night dalliances and paternity concerns could be a reason why he seemed to tire so quickly during the playoffs. And his narcissism probably has a lot to do with his moments of incessant dribbling when a teammate is wide open...he can't see him, because at times he is focused only on scoring. I'll continue to cheer for Ant because he is our best player and best chance for a championship. But I don't respect his off-court (and sometimes his on-court) behavior at all, and hope that he grows up and reaches his potential.

The one thing that sticks out to me is how his energy level fell off a cliff in the Dallas series. I don't buy it was due to the back he fell on, he didn't show any signs of injury. He just couldn't match what a 30's something Kyrie was doing. I don't think we will ever know if his off-court life was a reason, but it could have something to do with it.

[Wolvesfan21]

Thanks to Bleedspeed for teeing up this thread. Perhaps we can limit discussions of Ant's personal issues to this thread, and only discuss his basketball performance in others.

It's a complicated issue. Can we enjoy watching a player whose personal behavior is despicable? Can we listen to and enjoy Michael Jackson's music? Can we watch a movie produced by Harvey Weinstein? Heck, even though it happened hundred of years ago, can we appreciate the art of DaVinci (who was accused of molesting young boys)? My opinion is yes...we need to separate the horrid behavior of the man from the skill which we enjoy, while at the same time condemning their poor behavior.

I agree with some here who wonder how each of us would act if we were 23 year old celebrities with millions of dollars. And I agree that Ant is not alone in making poor choices. But there is some evidence that Ant's behavior is much worse than even the average NBA player, and we need to recognize that and call it out...hopefully only in this thread. He seems to have no remorse for his repeated out of wedlock pregnancies, and his texts reflect a person with no empathy or concern for the welfare of others. He's such a dichotomy though, because it's so easy to like the guy at the same time...his childlike enthusiasm is quite endearing. But two things can be true at the same time...he is both a lovable charismatic young man, while also displaying horrible narcissistic non-empathic qualities.

But this is a basketball board, so while I abhor Ant's off-court behaviors, my main admittedly selfish concern is how does his character impact the Timberwolves. And I've ben making the same case for over a year now...my concern is that Ant might love the "NBA life" more than he loves winning, and this may hold him back. I contrasted his on-court behavior during the Laker game with that of two real winners...Davis and James. Ant seemed more interested in yakking it up with his summer Olympic teammates than he did in winning...and they in contrast seemed to be swatting him away like an annoying bug. I've said it before and I'll say it again...I worry that Ant may lack the gravitas needed to reach his enormous ceiling. I look back at the behavior of the top 100 players of all time, and Ant seems different to me. Wilt for example may have been banging a different woman ever night, but when he got on the court, he was all business. You never saw him chatting up his opponents on the court during he game...he just wanted to destroy him.

We don't know for sure how Ant's "social life" might be impacting his on court play. But late night dalliances and paternity concerns could be a reason why he seemed to tire so quickly during the playoffs. And his narcissism probably has a lot to do with his moments of incessant dribbling when a teammate is wide open...he can't see him, because at times he is focused only on scoring. I'll continue to cheer for Ant because he is our best player and best chance for a championship. But I don't respect his off-court (and sometimes his on-court) behavior at all, and hope that he grows up and reaches his potential.

The one thing that sticks out to me is how his energy level fell off a cliff in the Dallas series. I don't buy it was due to the back he fell on, he didn't show any signs of injury. He just couldn't match what a 30's something Kyrie was doing. I don't think we will ever know if his off-court life was a reason, but it could have something to do with it.

I watched the Netflix thing and his diet isn't still great, despite seemingly having a chef cooking for him. Saw him eating chips and pizza and (maybe, my speculation) playing games till who knows how early in the morning. Sure not as bad as alcohol and smoking or other hard drugs, but he's not fully 100% in as of last year yet.

He certainly looked wrecked in that Dallas series. I'm not sure I've seen a player more tired then he was. Was it that injury? Was he a little sick maybe? Was it simply staying up late eating junk food and playing video games? IDK.

[Coolbreeze44]

Thanks to Bleedspeed for teeing up this thread. Perhaps we can limit discussions of Ant's personal issues to this thread, and only discuss his basketball performance in others.

It's a complicated issue. Can we enjoy watching a player whose personal behavior is despicable? Can we listen to and enjoy Michael Jackson's music? Can we watch a movie produced by Harvey Weinstein? Heck, even though it happened hundred of years ago, can we appreciate the art of DaVinci (who was accused of molesting young boys)? My opinion is yes...we need to separate the horrid behavior of the man from the skill which we enjoy, while at the same time condemning their poor behavior.

I agree with some here who wonder how each of us would act if we were 23 year old celebrities with millions of dollars. And I agree that Ant is not alone in making poor choices. But there is some evidence that Ant's behavior is much worse than even the average NBA player, and we need to recognize that and call it out...hopefully only in this thread. He seems to have no remorse for his repeated out of wedlock pregnancies, and his texts reflect a person with no empathy or concern for the welfare of others. He's such a dichotomy though, because it's so easy to like the guy at the same time...his childlike enthusiasm is quite endearing. But two things can be true at the same time...he is both a lovable charismatic young man, while also displaying horrible narcissistic non-empathic qualities.

But this is a basketball board, so while I abhor Ant's off-court behaviors, my main admittedly selfish concern is how does his character impact the Timberwolves. And I've ben making the same case for over a year now...my concern is that Ant might love the "NBA life" more than he loves winning, and this may hold him back. I contrasted his on-court behavior during the Laker game with that of two real winners...Davis and James. Ant seemed more interested in yakking it up with his summer Olympic teammates than he did in winning...and they in contrast seemed to be swatting him away like an annoying bug. I've said it before and I'll say it again...I worry that Ant may lack the gravitas needed to reach his enormous ceiling. I look back at the behavior of the top 100 players of all time, and Ant seems different to me. Wilt for example may have been banging a different woman ever night, but when he got on the court, he was all business. You never saw him chatting up his opponents on the court during he game...he just wanted to destroy him.

We don't know for sure how Ant's "social life" might be impacting his on court play. But late night dalliances and paternity concerns could be a reason why he seemed to tire so quickly during the playoffs. And his narcissism probably has a lot to do with his moments of incessant dribbling when a teammate is wide open...he can't see him, because at times he is focused only on scoring. I'll continue to cheer for Ant because he is our best player and best chance for a championship. But I don't respect his off-court (and sometimes his on-court) behavior at all, and hope that he grows up and reaches his potential.

The one thing that sticks out to me is how his energy level fell off a cliff in the Dallas series. I don't buy it was due to the back he fell on, he didn't show any signs of injury. He just couldn't match what a 30's something Kyrie was doing. I don't think we will ever know if his off-court life was a reason, but it could have something to do with it.

I watched the Netflix thing and his diet isn't still great, despite seemingly having a chef cooking for him. Saw him eating chips and pizza and (maybe, my speculation) playing games till who knows how early in the morning. Sure not as bad as alcohol and smoking or other hard drugs, but he's not fully 100% in as of last year yet.

He certainly looked wrecked in that Dallas series. I'm not sure I've seen a player more tired then he was. Was it that injury? Was he a little sick maybe? Was it simply staying up late eating junk food and playing video games? IDK.

Was it hitting the clubs?

[ItsJustSoSab]

He's a friendly dude who can't keep his dick in his pants, the homophobic clip was a bit rough but other than that what's the big deal? I just don't get the ominous view towards him.

Was the clip of saying a word really rough? I completely forgot about this till you posted it, but if I remember correctly he used "queer" not even "faggot". Or at least was that more rough than getting random women pregnant and paying for abortions? Seems like the two are not on an equal playing field. I am wrong a lot though, as SP's wife often reminds me

[rapsuperstar31]

Thanks to Bleedspeed for teeing up this thread. Perhaps we can limit discussions of Ant's personal issues to this thread, and only discuss his basketball performance in others.

It's a complicated issue. Can we enjoy watching a player whose personal behavior is despicable? Can we listen to and enjoy Michael Jackson's music? Can we watch a movie produced by Harvey Weinstein? Heck, even though it happened hundred of years ago, can we appreciate the art of DaVinci (who was accused of molesting young boys)? My opinion is yes...we need to separate the horrid behavior of the man from the skill which we enjoy, while at the same time condemning their poor behavior.

I agree with some here who wonder how each of us would act if we were 23 year old celebrities with millions of dollars. And I agree that Ant is not alone in making poor choices. But there is some evidence that Ant's behavior is much worse than even the average NBA player, and we need to recognize that and call it out...hopefully only in this thread. He seems to have no remorse for his repeated out of wedlock pregnancies, and his texts reflect a person with no empathy or concern for the welfare of others. He's such a dichotomy though, because it's so easy to like the guy at the same time...his childlike enthusiasm is quite endearing. But two things can be true at the same time...he is both a lovable charismatic young man, while also displaying horrible narcissistic non-empathic qualities.

But this is a basketball board, so while I abhor Ant's off-court behaviors, my main admittedly selfish concern is how does his character impact the Timberwolves. And I've ben making the same case for over a year now...my concern is that Ant might love the "NBA life" more than he loves winning, and this may hold him back. I contrasted his on-court behavior during the Laker game with that of two real winners...Davis and James. Ant seemed more interested in yakking it up with his summer Olympic teammates than he did in winning...and they in contrast seemed to be swatting him away like an annoying bug. I've said it before and I'll say it again...I worry that Ant may lack the gravitas needed to reach his enormous ceiling. I look back at the behavior of the top 100 players of all time, and Ant seems different to me. Wilt for example may have been banging a different woman ever night, but when he got on the court, he was all business. You never saw him chatting up his opponents on the court during he game...he just wanted to destroy him.

We don't know for sure how Ant's "social life" might be impacting his on court play. But late night dalliances and paternity concerns could be a reason why he seemed to tire so quickly during the playoffs. And his narcissism probably has a lot to do with his moments of incessant dribbling when a teammate is wide open...he can't see him, because at times he is focused only on scoring. I'll continue to cheer for Ant because he is our best player and best chance for a championship. But I don't respect his off-court (and sometimes his on-court) behavior at all, and hope that he grows up and reaches his potential.

The one thing that sticks out to me is how his energy level fell off a cliff in the Dallas series. I don't buy it was due to the back he fell on, he didn't show any signs of injury. He just couldn't match what a 30's something Kyrie was doing. I don't think we will ever know if his off-court life was a reason, but it could have something to do with it.

I watched the Netflix thing and his diet isn't still great, despite seemingly having a chef cooking for him. Saw him eating chips and pizza and (maybe, my speculation) playing games till who knows how early in the morning. Sure not as bad as alcohol and smoking or other hard drugs, but he's not fully 100% in as of last year yet.

He certainly looked wrecked in that Dallas series. I'm not sure I've seen a player more tired then he was. Was it that injury? Was he a little sick maybe? Was it simply staying up late eating junk food and playing video games? IDK.

That sounds like speculation, I've eaten pizza, chips, gummy bears and run 2:50 marathon the next day, eaten junk food and ran 24 hour ragnar relays on very little sleep just fine.

[Wolvesfan21]

The one thing that sticks out to me is how his energy level fell off a cliff in the Dallas series. I don't buy it was due to the back he fell on, he didn't show any signs of injury. He just couldn't match what a 30's something Kyrie was doing. I don't think we will ever know if his off-court life was a reason, but it could have something to do with it.

I watched the Netflix thing and his diet isn't still great, despite seemingly having a chef cooking for him. Saw him eating chips and pizza and (maybe, my speculation) playing games till who knows how early in the morning. Sure not as bad as alcohol and smoking or other hard drugs, but he's not fully 100% in as of last year yet.

He certainly looked wrecked in that Dallas series. I'm not sure I've seen a player more tired then he was. Was it that injury? Was he a little sick maybe? Was it simply staying up late eating junk food and playing video games? IDK.

That sounds like speculation, I've eaten pizza, chips, gummy bears and run 2:50 marathon the next day, eaten junk food and ran 24 hour ragnar relays on very little sleep just fine.

It's not optimal to be eating chips and pizza though, but sure you can do it. Are you losing that extra 1-2 maybe 5 percent? Especially in the long term. Once in a while sure. With how tired he was something was going on. Yes I was speculating on the other things? We simply don't know why he was THAT tired.

[guest81]

Thanks to Bleedspeed for teeing up this thread. Perhaps we can limit discussions of Ant's personal issues to this thread, and only discuss his basketball performance in others.

It's a complicated issue. Can we enjoy watching a player whose personal behavior is despicable? Can we listen to and enjoy Michael Jackson's music? Can we watch a movie produced by Harvey Weinstein? Heck, even though it happened hundred of years ago, can we appreciate the art of DaVinci (who was accused of molesting young boys)? My opinion is yes...we need to separate the horrid behavior of the man from the skill which we enjoy, while at the same time condemning their poor behavior.

I agree with some here who wonder how each of us would act if we were 23 year old celebrities with millions of dollars. And I agree that Ant is not alone in making poor choices. But there is some evidence that Ant's behavior is much worse than even the average NBA player, and we need to recognize that and call it out...hopefully only in this thread. He seems to have no remorse for his repeated out of wedlock pregnancies, and his texts reflect a person with no empathy or concern for the welfare of others. He's such a dichotomy though, because it's so easy to like the guy at the same time...his childlike enthusiasm is quite endearing. But two things can be true at the same time...he is both a lovable charismatic young man, while also displaying horrible narcissistic non-empathic qualities.

But this is a basketball board, so while I abhor Ant's off-court behaviors, my main admittedly selfish concern is how does his character impact the Timberwolves. And I've ben making the same case for over a year now...my concern is that Ant might love the "NBA life" more than he loves winning, and this may hold him back. I contrasted his on-court behavior during the Laker game with that of two real winners...Davis and James. Ant seemed more interested in yakking it up with his summer Olympic teammates than he did in winning...and they in contrast seemed to be swatting him away like an annoying bug. I've said it before and I'll say it again...I worry that Ant may lack the gravitas needed to reach his enormous ceiling. I look back at the behavior of the top 100 players of all time, and Ant seems different to me. Wilt for example may have been banging a different woman ever night, but when he got on the court, he was all business. You never saw him chatting up his opponents on the court during he game...he just wanted to destroy him.

We don't know for sure how Ant's "social life" might be impacting his on court play. But late night dalliances and paternity concerns could be a reason why he seemed to tire so quickly during the playoffs. And his narcissism probably has a lot to do with his moments of incessant dribbling when a teammate is wide open...he can't see him, because at times he is focused only on scoring. I'll continue to cheer for Ant because he is our best player and best chance for a championship. But I don't respect his off-court (and sometimes his on-court) behavior at all, and hope that he grows up and reaches his potential.

Comparing what ant did to what weinstein and mj did is ridiculous. Not even close to the same ballpark

[FNG]

Thanks to Bleedspeed for teeing up this thread. Perhaps we can limit discussions of Ant's personal issues to this thread, and only discuss his basketball performance in others.

It's a complicated issue. Can we enjoy watching a player whose personal behavior is despicable? Can we listen to and enjoy Michael Jackson's music? Can we watch a movie produced by Harvey Weinstein? Heck, even though it happened hundred of years ago, can we appreciate the art of DaVinci (who was accused of molesting young boys)? My opinion is yes...we need to separate the horrid behavior of the man from the skill which we enjoy, while at the same time condemning their poor behavior.

I agree with some here who wonder how each of us would act if we were 23 year old celebrities with millions of dollars. And I agree that Ant is not alone in making poor choices. But there is some evidence that Ant's behavior is much worse than even the average NBA player, and we need to recognize that and call it out...hopefully only in this thread. He seems to have no remorse for his repeated out of wedlock pregnancies, and his texts reflect a person with no empathy or concern for the welfare of others. He's such a dichotomy though, because it's so easy to like the guy at the same time...his childlike enthusiasm is quite endearing. But two things can be true at the same time...he is both a lovable charismatic young man, while also displaying horrible narcissistic non-empathic qualities.

But this is a basketball board, so while I abhor Ant's off-court behaviors, my main admittedly selfish concern is how does his character impact the Timberwolves. And I've ben making the same case for over a year now...my concern is that Ant might love the "NBA life" more than he loves winning, and this may hold him back. I contrasted his on-court behavior during the Laker game with that of two real winners...Davis and James. Ant seemed more interested in yakking it up with his summer Olympic teammates than he did in winning...and they in contrast seemed to be swatting him away like an annoying bug. I've said it before and I'll say it again...I worry that Ant may lack the gravitas needed to reach his enormous ceiling. I look back at the behavior of the top 100 players of all time, and Ant seems different to me. Wilt for example may have been banging a different woman ever night, but when he got on the court, he was all business. You never saw him chatting up his opponents on the court during he game...he just wanted to destroy him.

We don't know for sure how Ant's "social life" might be impacting his on court play. But late night dalliances and paternity concerns could be a reason why he seemed to tire so quickly during the playoffs. And his narcissism probably has a lot to do with his moments of incessant dribbling when a teammate is wide open...he can't see him, because at times he is focused only on scoring. I'll continue to cheer for Ant because he is our best player and best chance for a championship. But I don't respect his off-court (and sometimes his on-court) behavior at all, and hope that he grows up and reaches his potential.

Comparing what ant did to what weinstein and mj did is ridiculous. Not even close to the same ballpark

Oh, I agree 81. But my point is not to compare the degree of reprehensible behavior. There are several in this forum who are disgusted and worried about Ant's behavior (admittedly less ugly than the men I cite), and my question is whether it's okay to enjoy the artistry of someone we at least don't admire. I'm a Wolves rube, so I'm "holding my nose" and choosing to answer my question with a yes. But really the only impact Ant has on me personally is how his love of the NBA life style impacts his behavior on the court, and I'm not alone here in having some concerns about that.

Anyway, I'm hoping we can isolate comments about Ant's personal characteristics to this thread, and use the GDTs to focus on his on-court performance.

[WildWolf2813]

I'll say it til I'm blue in the face.

This team has booed and shooed away nicer guys because they sucked at basketball.

This team just dealt away a guy who loved Minnesota, had a steady girlfriend, a loving dad who is always at his games, an undying affection for his family, and unwavering support for his teammates, and half the fanbase was happy to see him go because they thought he was a soft ass punk ass bitch who they couldn't stand to see play basketball anymore.

worry about on the court. If this team ever wins a championship, I'm not gonna think about why everyone hates Rudy Gobert as a man. I'm not gonna think about why I never wanted Randle here. I'm not gonna think about why I think Glen Taylor is a pathetic owner who should happily walk away with whatever dignity he has left. I'm not gonna think of Jaden McDaniels as wasted talent. Winning is the best deodorant in sports. When off-court stuff affects on the court stuff, by all means, rip away. Be concerned. Ant hasn't allowed that to happen and it's unfair to bash the guy because he's not living life the way you want him to. Long after he's a Wolf, he has to deal with his personal life. You don't have to deal with it now.

I am a Yankee fan who was around for those late 90s Dynasty years. the 98 team is my favorite team of all-time. Does it suck to find out a bunch of guys are general pieces of shit? Yeah, but I ain't giving that title back. It's still my favorite team. Their imperfections are only in the back of my mind when I watch highlights.

[FNG]

After reading wildwolf's post, it seems like this board is divided into three categories. The smallest category consists of fans who dislike Ant's behaviors so much that it has pushed then away from the Wolves. A larger category (and one that I'm in) consists of fans who really detest some things that Ant has done and worry about whether his behaviors might have a detrimental impact on the Wolves, but continue to cheer for him because he is the key to our chances for a championship and he's so damn talented. And the third category care little or not at all about anything he does...they just see him as a basketball player.

I'm not saying any of these categories is more correct than any other...just different takes.