The Ascent Begins - Wolves at Pistons GDT

[Coolbreeze44]

Wolvesfan is right about getting rid of KAT, it was the right thing to do. Only problem is it should have been done 3-4 years earlier and we sure as hell would have gotten more than Randle and DDV. I was telling you all that we should have traded KAT about the same time we made the trade for DLO. It would have been a great move at the time, instead we waited and got fleeced by the Knicks.

I'm telling you again that we need to move on from Ant. Not this season, but sometime after the draft in the summer. I admit it would take balls to pull it off, but Ant is going to flame out much sooner than you think. Strike while the iron is hot for once.

[Coolbreeze44]

If you still believe Ant can be the centerpiece of an NBA champion, I'm envious of you. I wish I had that hope because I would be enjoying this team much more.

The way I see it, we knew cap problems were coming and so we took our best shot last year. We came close but ultimately lost to a couple of superstars in a superstar league. TC then tried pivoting by handing the keys to a flawed human being. That has turned out to be a mistake but I guess it was worth a shot.

However, it isn't all bad. We can load up on players and draft capital by trading Ant, Rudy and Randle. We should be able to get 5 first rounders and a couple of good young players in those transactions. We already have good supporting players in NAZ, NAW, Jaden, and hopefully Dillingham and Shannon. You always need a little luck, but couldn't we do a competitive rebuild like the Vikings did? Get a guy like Tyrese Maxey and a couple of firsts for Ant. A retool doesn't have to take that long if your GM has a good vision and strategy for it.

Do you think Boston, Dallas, Denver, Golden State, Memphis, Miami, Utah, or San Antonio would trade for Ant (assuming there were no cap restrictions)?

Of course. Add Philly and Atlanta to that list as well.

[Lipoli390]

If you still believe Ant can be the centerpiece of an NBA champion, I'm envious of you. I wish I had that hope because I would be enjoying this team much more.

The way I see it, we knew cap problems were coming and so we took our best shot last year. We came close but ultimately lost to a couple of superstars in a superstar league. TC then tried pivoting by handing the keys to a flawed human being. That has turned out to be a mistake but I guess it was worth a shot.

However, it isn't all bad. We can load up on players and draft capital by trading Ant, Rudy and Randle. We should be able to get 5 first rounders and a couple of good young players in those transactions. We already have good supporting players in NAZ, NAW, Jaden, and hopefully Dillingham and Shannon. You always need a little luck, but couldn't we do a competitive rebuild like the Vikings did? Get a guy like Tyrese Maxey and a couple of firsts for Ant. A retool doesn't have to take that long if your GM has a good vision and strategy for it.

Trading Ant would be a bold move, Cool. I wouldn’t do it, but you were right when you called on the Wolves to trade KAT several years ago so I’m not going to say you’re wrong on this one even though I wouldn’t make the move. I maintain that we can be contender with Ant as our best player. My evidence is last season when we were, in fact, a title contender with Ant as our best player. Now we have less talent and a terrible combo of players around Ant. The result? We’re like we were two seasons ago when we had Rudy and Ant but no KAT even though Ant is a better player now then he was then.

The question in my mind is whether we can effectively re-tool into a title contender without trading Ant. I think we can, but that will require a lot from the untested top young talent in the organization - Dilly, TSJ, Minott, Miller and Clark. It will also depend on what we can get in return for guys like Randle, Rudy and possibly Jaden.

[Coolbreeze44]

If you still believe Ant can be the centerpiece of an NBA champion, I'm envious of you. I wish I had that hope because I would be enjoying this team much more.

The way I see it, we knew cap problems were coming and so we took our best shot last year. We came close but ultimately lost to a couple of superstars in a superstar league. TC then tried pivoting by handing the keys to a flawed human being. That has turned out to be a mistake but I guess it was worth a shot.

However, it isn't all bad. We can load up on players and draft capital by trading Ant, Rudy and Randle. We should be able to get 5 first rounders and a couple of good young players in those transactions. We already have good supporting players in NAZ, NAW, Jaden, and hopefully Dillingham and Shannon. You always need a little luck, but couldn't we do a competitive rebuild like the Vikings did? Get a guy like Tyrese Maxey and a couple of firsts for Ant. A retool doesn't have to take that long if your GM has a good vision and strategy for it.

Trading Ant would be a bold move, Cool. I wouldn’t do it, but you were right when you called on the Wolves to trade KAT several years ago so I’m not going to say you’re wrong on this one even though I wouldn’t make the move. I maintain that we can be contender with Ant as our best player. My evidence is last season when we were, in fact, a title contender with Ant as our best player. Now we have less talent and a terrible combo of players around Ant. The result? We’re like we were two seasons ago when we had Rudy and Ant but no KAT even though Ant is a better player now then he was then.

The question in my mind is whether we can effectively re-tool into a title contender without trading Ant. I think we can, but that will require a lot from the untested top young talent in the organization - Dilly, TSJ, Minott, Miller and Clark. It will also depend on what we can get in return for guys like Randle, Rudy and possibly Jaden.

The core difference in our beliefs is what Ant is. I could see him being a great #2, I don't think he can win a championship as the alpha. I respect your opinion as always, but I wouldn't want my $2 Billion dollar franchise relying on one Anthony Edwards.

[Wolvesfan21]

You simply don't empty out the draft pick chest and put us in cap hell for a 30 year old one way player who needs to be sat during certain situations due to his limitations and who most of the league and team dislikes. It was stupid. It changed the trajectory of the team. He screwed this team over with one trade. We will now be paying for it for years. Nothing like one good year of basketball so we can go back to another 10 years of ineptitude. You won't change my mind on Connelly and I won't change yours. I hate him. He has been beyond awful in my opinion.

We got 6 guys rotting on the bench already. We don't need more players. Now if your argument was to use those picks on another guy or guys. IDK, we had a pretty damn good year last year. Rudy is a HOF player and won DPOY last year on OUR team. Like sure he's not playing well right now. But it's not over yet.

I think some fans were more then happy with winning 20 games and playing the lotto every year. I'd rather have a winning team.

We were a team on the rise that won 46 games the season before TC arrived, not a 20-win team. I never envisioned sticking with the same exact players going forward from there, but there were better uses of the assets we gave up for Rudy and we didn’t have to give up all those assets to improve on this team’s 46 wins. The improvement from Ant and Jaden alone would have elevated this team. Look around at the best teams in the League and you’ll see that none of them gave up some similar to what we gave up for a player like Rudy and put themselves in the financial and on-court situation we’re in right now.

Bridges was traded for a similar deal. Picks are not worth much to be honest. If they were we wouldn't have sucked for 15 years straight. We had picks! Now if for some reason one of those picks is top say 3. Then I'll eat my words. You're not going to get a superstar for picks either. You need most of the time a top 5 if not top pick in the draft.

[Coolbreeze44]

If you still believe Ant can be the centerpiece of an NBA champion, I'm envious of you. I wish I had that hope because I would be enjoying this team much more.

The way I see it, we knew cap problems were coming and so we took our best shot last year. We came close but ultimately lost to a couple of superstars in a superstar league. TC then tried pivoting by handing the keys to a flawed human being. That has turned out to be a mistake but I guess it was worth a shot.

However, it isn't all bad. We can load up on players and draft capital by trading Ant, Rudy and Randle. We should be able to get 5 first rounders and a couple of good young players in those transactions. We already have good supporting players in NAZ, NAW, Jaden, and hopefully Dillingham and Shannon. You always need a little luck, but couldn't we do a competitive rebuild like the Vikings did? Get a guy like Tyrese Maxey and a couple of firsts for Ant. A retool doesn't have to take that long if your GM has a good vision and strategy for it.

Do you think Boston, Dallas, Denver, Golden State, Memphis, Miami, Utah, or San Antonio would trade for Ant (assuming there were no cap restrictions)?

Of course. Add Philly and Atlanta to that list as well. Any place he doesn't have to be THEE guy.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe's Beleaguered DVR Review:

- Minnesota is clinging to the #10 playoff spot. But they've been nearly 100% healthy all season. Healthiest team in the league. There's a decent to good chance they're not making the playoffs. Heck, would you bet against a resurgent Kings or Suns team passing the Wolves at this pace?

- The worst part... There's not much the Wolves can do. The Wolves have three players starting who are liabilities at least as much as they're valuable assets right now. Conley has another year left. (Nobody will trade for him.) Gobert has THREE years left. (Nobody will trade for him.) McDaniels has FOUR years left and he continues to regress.

The other starter is Julius Randle. I'm trying really hard not to go full Rashad McCants hate on this man. But it's hard. It's really hard not to do so. It was pointed out earlier in this thread that he watched a fast break happen off a TO. Literally. The Detroit players took 4 or 5 steps... and Randle NEVER MOVED. He makes basketball less fun to watch.

- The Wolves don't have many draft picks. oooh... one from Detroit. Maybe. And the Dillingham pick has been a waste so far. Even worse, he's not close to being a viable NBA player. He's years away, if ever.

Even worse than that... who can they trade for picks? We used to be able to say Towns. Well, that didn't happen. If you think about it, who besides Edwards and DDV is guaranteed to garner a 1st round pick back in a trade? And for DDV, it's because his contract is cheap.
 
- The body language of the team is very bad.

- 17 TOs... and only 20 assists. The A/TO ratio has been embarrassingly bad. That makes it 55 TOs vs. 62 assists in this losing streak. Pathetic. And terrible to watch.

- Even the recent wins have been incredibly flawed.

- This team is not very good. I don't see a way to make it better. Worst of all... they're not entertaining.

- Go Vikings.

[Phenom]

If you still believe Ant can be the centerpiece of an NBA champion, I'm envious of you. I wish I had that hope because I would be enjoying this team much more.

The way I see it, we knew cap problems were coming and so we took our best shot last year. We came close but ultimately lost to a couple of superstars in a superstar league. TC then tried pivoting by handing the keys to a flawed human being. That has turned out to be a mistake but I guess it was worth a shot.

However, it isn't all bad. We can load up on players and draft capital by trading Ant, Rudy and Randle. We should be able to get 5 first rounders and a couple of good young players in those transactions. We already have good supporting players in NAZ, NAW, Jaden, and hopefully Dillingham and Shannon. You always need a little luck, but couldn't we do a competitive rebuild like the Vikings did? Get a guy like Tyrese Maxey and a couple of firsts for Ant. A retool doesn't have to take that long if your GM has a good vision and strategy for it.

Do you think Boston, Dallas, Denver, Golden State, Memphis, Miami, Utah, or San Antonio would trade for Ant (assuming there were no cap restrictions)?

Of course. Add Philly and Atlanta to that list as well.

Those are the consensus best run organizations in the league. If they would build with Ant, so should the Wolves.

[Wolvesfan21]

Wolvesfan is right about getting rid of KAT, it was the right thing to do. Only problem is it should have been done 3-4 years earlier and we sure as hell would have gotten more than Randle and DDV. I was telling you all that we should have traded KAT about the same time we made the trade for DLO. It would have been a great move at the time, instead we waited and got fleeced by the Knicks.

I'm telling you again that we need to move on from Ant. Not this season, but sometime after the draft in the summer. I admit it would take balls to pull it off, but Ant is going to flame out much sooner than you think. Strike while the iron is hot for once.

You're still mad about his off the court stuff. It's clouding your judgement. I too wanted to trade KAT years ago, then he started playing a bit better and I was on the fence. We were in agreement I know at one time. Now that he's up there in age, injuries piling up and supermax to the moon, we didn't get much in return.

The real issue with this team isn't really just Randle. It's the other 5 guys playing below their levels. That is just abnormal. Like who would have predicted we'd be .500ish right now? None of us. I think even the lowest prediction was Abe at 46-48 or something. I even looked at shooting percentages and some basic math. Guys shoot up to their norms and we have a top 8 offense. Maybe top 5 with some improvement. Easily top 4 team in the West or better.

We need guys to start playing like they are capable or move on and start seeing if these other young guys can play/develop. Just because the others are not up to par you don't blow it up.

Just the though of trading Ant is just ridiculous. Now the odds are we probably we won't win a Chip. The odds are always in your favor unless you get a obvious LeBron type. Ant isn't quite on that LeBron level though. Age for Age. He's more on that second tier.

[Coolbreeze44]

Do you think Boston, Dallas, Denver, Golden State, Memphis, Miami, Utah, or San Antonio would trade for Ant (assuming there were no cap restrictions)?

Of course. Add Philly and Atlanta to that list as well.

Those are the consensus best run organizations in the league. If they would build with Ant, so should the Wolves.

Most of those teams have players who supersede Ant. They wouldn't build around him, they already have a better centerpiece.