The Ascent Begins - Wolves at Pistons GDT

[kekgeek]

So a couple things. I did not watch much of this game due to a huge cornhole tournament this weekend but I was at a sportsbook so watched some of it inbetween my games.

Couple of things. I hate watching this team, with that said we need to have some patience. The Kat trade was to create more long term flexibility so we have to see what happens over these next couple of years.

If we would have kept Kat that means no Donte long term, no Det pick, no Naw and no Naz due to the second apron restrictions. I know Lip will say we are in 2nd apron still, and that is correct however the wolves get out of the 2nd apron if Randle opt out next year (we don’t know what he is going to do) or if he does opt in we can still afford to do one more year in the 2nd apron and then Mike and Randle come off the books. What is super important because the biggest punishment of being a 2nd apron team 3 out of 5 years (this is year 1 for the wolves) your first round pick 7 years from now (2033) becomes frozen and becomes the last pick of the first round. That would have 100% happened if we kept Kat. So because of the Kat trade Connelly saved another future asset that would be gone with Kat. So Donte, Naz, Naw, Det pick, 2033 1st and the ability to make trades/sign free agents are gone.

If Kat would get hurt it would be the worst contract in the NBA and probably become untradeable. The only reason the Knicks could acquire Kat is because Brunson took a massive paycut, while the wolves were punished by Ant making all NBA.

I understand the frustrations with not going for a championship with Kat this year. However having Kat on this wolves team does not change the fact Mike became washed after his best shooting season of his career, Jaden can’t hit a 3 and regressed since he punched a wall and Rudy having a down year after international play again this summer. I don’t think we’re a title contender because of the pretty significant regressions of 3 starters this year.

Then going back to the Rudy trade. We made the WCF with that trade and had home court advantage in the WCF. Rudy lead the wolves in +\- all playoffs and Kat shot under 30% and Ant under 40% in the first 3 games all super close losses. We also have to remember the Rudy trade was done before the CBA restrictions happen and everything I’ve read it was a shock to front offices on how harsh these restrictions are (Lip if you could find me an article stating otherwise I would love to read it because I can be changed) and we were supposed to have different owner right now than we do. If there was not roster construction restrictions that were put in place after the trade and we do not know if Arod/Lore agreed to pay the lux tax when the Rudy trade under a different rule set then we have now.


One last thing. I don’t blame coaches often but when Kat would get hurt Naz would replace Kat in the starting lineup with good success. And I would say the majority of us would say that was the logical future plan if Kat was no longer on this team. WHY THE FUCK HAS FINCH NOT PLAYED THAT LINEUP AT ALL THIS YEAR. They have played under 40 possessions and albeit a super small sample size that lineup has a 100th percentile net rating this year and is outscoring its opponents by over 70 pts per 100 possessions. SO WHY THE FUCK IS CHRIS FINCH NOT PLAYING THE MOST OBVIOUS LONG TERM LINEUP!!!!!! When you can still start Randle (to keep him) take him out for Naz 5 minutes in. Then at the end if the Q we can have Randle come in for Rudy and can run the Randle/bench 4 lineup that has also been great!!!!!!!!

Go wolves

[60WinTim]

Wow, kek!

You should give yourself an A+ on your next three grade reports! You put a lot of effort in summarizing how we have arrived at the current state of the Wolves. It rebuts much of the negative narrative surrounding this team.

And your thoughts on the NAZ/Randle dilemma are pretty clear cut. Do you think Finch and TC have had conversations regarding Randle, and that Randle is featured to keep his trade value as high as possible?

Anyway, we thought we were entering the ANT 1.5 era (post-KAT), but it certainly feels like we are still in the transition period to the ANT 1.5 era. I sure hope something gets done before the deadline so ANT 1.5 can officially begin.

[FNG]

Yes, excellent summary by kek. Rudy has been pretty bad the past week, but I can't believe we are still discussing the Rudy trade. We're three years into it, and while the Wolves made the WCF and have provided great entertainment, the Jazz are languishing in oblivion and are currently 3-21 in the conference this year...can you imagine what this board would be like if the Wolves were 3-21!!! My sources tell me construction of the Danny Ainge statue in Salt Lake City is currently on hold. TC 1-Ainge 0.

[Q-is-here]

I think Wolves fans have three debates going on in parallel, presented in order of past to present:

1. Was the Rudy trade a mistake that set the franchise back?

2. Was the KAT trade a mistake that set the franchise back?

3. Can Ant be the best player of a championship-caliber team?

Since #1 and #2 happened in the past, there are some objective outcomes that have occurred since that can be used in favor or against those trades.

#3 is a much more speculative debate since the subject is only 23 years old and the story is still being written. But once again, one can point to certain "indicators", statistically or otherwise, that can support his argument.

But probably the most fascinating aspect of all this is how franchise trials and tribulations stimulate board participation! In fact, we only hear from some folks on here after a bad loss!

[BeenLurkin]

I’m sure no matter what career path anyone here is on we can look back to a time when a coworker was not giving a good effort or following the same rules that we had to and not being reprimanded for it. Put yourself in that mindset over a 4 month period and see how willing you are to perform at your best every shift while they shirk the tough parts of the job and only seem interested in performing the glory duties (and still do those poorly at times).
Randle has to go. It is obvious that Finch is not allowed to sit him or he is incredibly stupid and I don’t think he is.

[BeenLurkin]

Also Ants bad whistle is not solely offensive. I have seen a few awesome clean blocks called fouls lately. They should save a challenge specifically to make the refs watch that closer.

Rewatched the game and it wasn’t as much of a give up game as I thought it was gonna be from the comments here. Shots weren’t falling for others sure. Rudy should never touch the ball in purpose again, using him to facilitate at the nail is a crazy making exercise. Dude can’t use his own hands. But the team was engaged it seemed. Effort was there. We have absolutely no idea what to do on offense besides let Ant cook and hope a hockey assist finds a 3 and it goes in at or above league average. Cade and the Thompson twins are good to great…Julius made a few great passes and decisions that weren’t rewarded but he also had a few full shot clock no pass possessions.
It all seems to boil down to the system isn’t working for the players they have. We are unfortunatly better without Rudy and Mike on the floor but we are unwilling to allow youth to participate…it’s burning a candle at both ends and neither end is lit… whatever the reasoning for not playing more than 8 guys (coaching or GM) that reason needs to be convinced that it’s wrong very soon. Seeing for them doesn’t equal belief I guess. Maybe ownership confusion is delaying a decision making process? At least that reasoning is logical. No one wants to make a call that could cost them standing with one of the two ownership groups…

[WildWolf2813]

Wow, kek!

You should give yourself an A+ on your next three grade reports! You put a lot of effort in summarizing how we have arrived at the current state of the Wolves. It rebuts much of the negative narrative surrounding this team.

And your thoughts on the NAZ/Randle dilemma are pretty clear cut. Do you think Finch and TC have had conversations regarding Randle, and that Randle is featured to keep his trade value as high as possible?

Anyway, we thought we were entering the ANT 1.5 era (post-KAT), but it certainly feels like we are still in the transition period to the ANT 1.5 era. I sure hope something gets done before the deadline so ANT 1.5 can officially begin.

Randle's value isn't changing between now and next month barring injury. He is what he is.

If Randle starts kicking ass and as a result the team plays better, are we gonna trade him? No.

[Q-is-here]

Also Ants bad whistle is not solely offensive. I have seen a few awesome clean blocks called fouls lately. They should save a challenge specifically to make the refs watch that closer.

Rewatched the game and it wasn’t as much of a give up game as I thought it was gonna be from the comments here. Shots weren’t falling for others sure. Rudy should never touch the ball in purpose again, using him to facilitate at the nail is a crazy making exercise. Dude can’t use his own hands. But the team was engaged it seemed. Effort was there. We have absolutely no idea what to do on offense besides let Ant cook and hope a hockey assist finds a 3 and it goes in at or above league average. Cade and the Thompson twins are good to great…Julius made a few great passes and decisions that weren’t rewarded but he also had a few full shot clock no pass possessions.
It all seems to boil down to the system isn’t working for the players they have. We are unfortunatly better without Rudy and Mike on the floor but we are unwilling to allow youth to participate…it’s burning a candle at both ends and neither end is lit… whatever the reasoning for not playing more than 8 guys (coaching or GM) that reason needs to be convinced that it’s wrong very soon. Seeing for them doesn’t equal belief I guess. Maybe ownership confusion is delaying a decision making process? At least that reasoning is logical. No one wants to make a call that could cost them standing with one of the two ownership groups…

It doesn't seem THAT controversial to expand the rotation a bit more or make an early sub of Naz for Randle as Kek suggested. In fact, I have to believe at least the ALore side of ownership is getting a bit aggravated with the rigidity in which Finch has deployed his lineups.

He's finally let go of the rope a bit on Minott, but my God, it was like pulling teeth with a string tied to a doorknob even after an outstanding pre-season. And I have no illusions of Minott saving our season, but 10-12 MPG of athleticism, energy, and pace would have been nice from the get go!