Wolves traded Kat

[AbeVigodaLive]

LOL!! I just heard this question posed on Flagrant Howls right now:

Would you trade Randle, DDV and Detroit pick for KAT?

I couldn't help but chuckle, because the answer is a complete 180 from how many felt a few months ago!

It's pretty amusing how winning changes things.

Many of us (me included) railed on and on about how "boring/unfun" the Timberwolves were for at least 1/2 the season. There was a dour vibe over the entire squad/franchise. Many of us mentioned how little fun there seemed to be in watching this team.

Fast forward... the energy is unmistakable. You can feel it even watching on tv. The way the players interact, especially when on the bench. it's dare I say... FUN.

[Q-is-here]

LOL!! I just heard this question posed on Flagrant Howls right now:

Would you trade Randle, DDV and Detroit pick for KAT?

I couldn't help but chuckle, because the answer is a complete 180 from how many felt a few months ago!

It's pretty amusing how winning changes things.

Many of us (me included) railed on and on about how "boring/unfun" the Timberwolves were for at least 1/2 the season. There was a dour vibe over the entire squad/franchise. Many of us mentioned how little fun there seemed to be in watching this team.

Fast forward... the energy is unmistakable. You can feel it even watching on tv. The way the players interact, especially when on the bench. it's dare I say... FUN.

If you look at the general consensus on the Wins Prediction thread (of which you or an outlier ), what we are seeing now is what many of us expected. I was thinking of giving Finch a whole bunch of credit for the dramatic turnaround, but then I thought - wait a second! - we were supposed to be really good. I had us at 53 wins and an NBA Finals appearance! And I was somewhere in the middle of what everyone else predicted!

Is it fair to say that Finch and the players underachieved for ~ 40-50 games and now they are just doing what they should have been doing all along?

And why is it the Wolves always need so much time to integrate new players? I get the logic, but I look at Golden State and they had NO problem integrating Jimmy Butler instantly! And he's not like some seamless role player. He likes the ball in his hands a bit and can't really shoot. Isn't that kind of like Randle??? How did Dallas so quickly integrate their two late season acquisitions last season to make a Finals run??? Doncic seems to have integrated just fine with the Lakers and they would have continued to keep rolling if not for the LeBron injury.

So Finch deserves kudos for turning things around, but on balance, he's kind of gone from underachieving to meeting expectations IMO.

[Coolbreeze44]

LOL!! I just heard this question posed on Flagrant Howls right now:

Would you trade Randle, DDV and Detroit pick for KAT?

I couldn't help but chuckle, because the answer is a complete 180 from how many felt a few months ago!

It's pretty amusing how winning changes things.

Many of us (me included) railed on and on about how "boring/unfun" the Timberwolves were for at least 1/2 the season. There was a dour vibe over the entire squad/franchise. Many of us mentioned how little fun there seemed to be in watching this team.

Fast forward... the energy is unmistakable. You can feel it even watching on tv. The way the players interact, especially when on the bench. it's dare I say... FUN.

I was one who came out and said it wasn't any fun following the team this year. I've completely flipped and look forward to every game now. As long as we don't draw the Lakers, I can see us right back to where we were last year or even beyond. Let's hope Denver gets the Lakers and knocks them out.

[Wolvesfan21]

LOL!! I just heard this question posed on Flagrant Howls right now:

Would you trade Randle, DDV and Detroit pick for KAT?

I couldn't help but chuckle, because the answer is a complete 180 from how many felt a few months ago!

It's pretty amusing how winning changes things.

Many of us (me included) railed on and on about how "boring/unfun" the Timberwolves were for at least 1/2 the season. There was a dour vibe over the entire squad/franchise. Many of us mentioned how little fun there seemed to be in watching this team.

Fast forward... the energy is unmistakable. You can feel it even watching on tv. The way the players interact, especially when on the bench. it's dare I say... FUN.

If you look at the general consensus on the Wins Prediction thread (of which you or an outlier ), what we are seeing now is what many of us expected. I was thinking of giving Finch a whole bunch of credit for the dramatic turnaround, but then I thought - wait a second! - we were supposed to be really good. I had us at 53 wins and an NBA Finals appearance! And I was somewhere in the middle of what everyone else predicted!

Is it fair to say that Finch and the players underachieved for ~ 40-50 games and now they are just doing what they should have been doing all along?

And why is it the Wolves always need so much time to integrate new players? I get the logic, but I look at Golden State and they had NO problem integrating Jimmy Butler instantly! And he's not like some seamless role player. He likes the ball in his hands a bit and can't really shoot. Isn't that kind of like Randle??? How did Dallas so quickly integrate their two late season acquisitions last season to make a Finals run??? Doncic seems to have integrated just fine with the Lakers and they would have continued to keep rolling if not for the LeBron injury.

So Finch deserves kudos for turning things around, but on balance, he's kind of gone from underachieving to meeting expectations IMO.

I think with Rudy he's a bit of a tough player to adjust to on offense. Ant also wanted to play too much ISO during the start of the year and of course so did Randle. He's finally coming around after 5? seasons with Finch and his .5 mentality. Shoot, Drive or Pass. Don't just sit there and burn the clock.

I think what has happened on offense is that finally, everyone has bought in to the Finch system and it works. We've seen it work at times in the past, but more often then not things go back to ISO ball and turnovers. Ant has really lowered his turnovers also. Which is what I thought would happen simply with time. He wasn't at all a polished passer or shooter coming into the league. It just takes experience. Dealing with double teams was another hurdle he seems to be conquering.

I actually think we will be a dangerous team in the playoffs, assuming we stay healthy for the most part.

As far as Jimmy, he's an old dog, he can play well obviously and quickly pick up any offense due to his age and ability. He's been there done that. Lots of our guys are still learning.

[Q-is-here]

It's pretty amusing how winning changes things.

Many of us (me included) railed on and on about how "boring/unfun" the Timberwolves were for at least 1/2 the season. There was a dour vibe over the entire squad/franchise. Many of us mentioned how little fun there seemed to be in watching this team.

Fast forward... the energy is unmistakable. You can feel it even watching on tv. The way the players interact, especially when on the bench. it's dare I say... FUN.

If you look at the general consensus on the Wins Prediction thread (of which you or an outlier ), what we are seeing now is what many of us expected. I was thinking of giving Finch a whole bunch of credit for the dramatic turnaround, but then I thought - wait a second! - we were supposed to be really good. I had us at 53 wins and an NBA Finals appearance! And I was somewhere in the middle of what everyone else predicted!

Is it fair to say that Finch and the players underachieved for ~ 40-50 games and now they are just doing what they should have been doing all along?

And why is it the Wolves always need so much time to integrate new players? I get the logic, but I look at Golden State and they had NO problem integrating Jimmy Butler instantly! And he's not like some seamless role player. He likes the ball in his hands a bit and can't really shoot. Isn't that kind of like Randle??? How did Dallas so quickly integrate their two late season acquisitions last season to make a Finals run??? Doncic seems to have integrated just fine with the Lakers and they would have continued to keep rolling if not for the LeBron injury.

So Finch deserves kudos for turning things around, but on balance, he's kind of gone from underachieving to meeting expectations IMO.

I think with Rudy he's a bit of a tough player to adjust to on offense. Ant also wanted to play too much ISO during the start of the year and of course so did Randle. He's finally coming around after 5? seasons with Finch and his .5 mentality. Shoot, Drive or Pass. Don't just sit there and burn the clock.

I think what has happened on offense is that finally, everyone has bought in to the Finch system and it works. We've seen it work at times in the past, but more often then not things go back to ISO ball and turnovers. Ant has really lowered his turnovers also. Which is what I thought would happen simply with time. He wasn't at all a polished passer or shooter coming into the league. It just takes experience. Dealing with double teams was another hurdle he seems to be conquering.

I actually think we will be a dangerous team in the playoffs, assuming we stay healthy for the most part.

As far as Jimmy, he's an old dog, he can play well obviously and quickly pick up any offense due to his age and ability. He's been there done that. Lots of our guys are still learning.

I think you might have hit on part of the answer, which is Finch's "flow" offense. Since it's unstructured and relies on player empowerment, it probably really does take time for guys to figure each other out and develop trust. A highly structured offense like high pick and roll with stationary shooters in each corner doesn't require as much movement or "flow". Even the dribble drive motion offense like Boston's where you have five guys out is easier to adapt to.

[Wolvesfan21]

If you look at the general consensus on the Wins Prediction thread (of which you or an outlier ), what we are seeing now is what many of us expected. I was thinking of giving Finch a whole bunch of credit for the dramatic turnaround, but then I thought - wait a second! - we were supposed to be really good. I had us at 53 wins and an NBA Finals appearance! And I was somewhere in the middle of what everyone else predicted!

Is it fair to say that Finch and the players underachieved for ~ 40-50 games and now they are just doing what they should have been doing all along?

And why is it the Wolves always need so much time to integrate new players? I get the logic, but I look at Golden State and they had NO problem integrating Jimmy Butler instantly! And he's not like some seamless role player. He likes the ball in his hands a bit and can't really shoot. Isn't that kind of like Randle??? How did Dallas so quickly integrate their two late season acquisitions last season to make a Finals run??? Doncic seems to have integrated just fine with the Lakers and they would have continued to keep rolling if not for the LeBron injury.

So Finch deserves kudos for turning things around, but on balance, he's kind of gone from underachieving to meeting expectations IMO.

I think with Rudy he's a bit of a tough player to adjust to on offense. Ant also wanted to play too much ISO during the start of the year and of course so did Randle. He's finally coming around after 5? seasons with Finch and his .5 mentality. Shoot, Drive or Pass. Don't just sit there and burn the clock.

I think what has happened on offense is that finally, everyone has bought in to the Finch system and it works. We've seen it work at times in the past, but more often then not things go back to ISO ball and turnovers. Ant has really lowered his turnovers also. Which is what I thought would happen simply with time. He wasn't at all a polished passer or shooter coming into the league. It just takes experience. Dealing with double teams was another hurdle he seems to be conquering.

I actually think we will be a dangerous team in the playoffs, assuming we stay healthy for the most part.

As far as Jimmy, he's an old dog, he can play well obviously and quickly pick up any offense due to his age and ability. He's been there done that. Lots of our guys are still learning.

I think you might have hit on part of the answer, which is Finch's "flow" offense. Since it's unstructured and relies on player empowerment, it probably really does take time for guys to figure each other out and develop trust. A highly structured offense like high pick and roll with stationary shooters in each corner doesn't require as much movement or "flow". Even the dribble drive motion offense like Boston's where you have five guys out is easier to adapt to.

Right, the empowerment can be a detriment when guys simply want to get theirs. It works best when winning is of utmost importance. Trust in your teammates to make shots and plays.

[Wolvesfan21]

I case you haven’t looked at KAT’s per game stats to date this season, here they are:

24.7 points, 13.9 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 0.9 steals, 1.0 blocks, 43.7% FG, 45.6% 3s on 5 attempts, 84% FT on 6 attempts

Those numbers are all close to his career averages except that his rebounds and three-point percentage are up a bit. This is the guy we traded for Randle, DDV and one future pick, which will probably be a 2nd rounder. Meanwhile, KAT’s current Knicks team is 10 games over .500 while the Wolves are one game over and struggling to score points. Our defense has been much better than our offense, but it has been terribly inconsistent. The chemistry this team had last season isn’t there. KAT is now playing his natural position, center, and flourishing at the age of 29.

The KAT deal was a bad trade for the Wolves. But even worse is that fact that it was ultimately the consequence of another bad Wolves trade — i.e., the deal for Gobert. We’re now on pace for a worse record than the season before trading for Gobert and about the same record we ended up with in Rudy’s first season when KAT missed the vast majority of the team’s games. Yet, we have the League’s second highest payroll and a depleted draft cupboard. It looks like we’ll probably have to give away another draft asset or two to entice a team to take Randle off our payroll so we can get below the 2nd apron without losing Naz to free agency.

Meanwhile, it would be interesting to know how much Jaden’s trade value has declined so far this season. Depending on the answer to that question, it may be time to move Jaden.

A lot of this feels like a carbon copy of Rudy's first season. Can Finch pull it all together again?

Also, am I the only one that has a good feeling about the Detroit pick being a first? I think there's a really good chance that happens in the next 3 drafts.

Randle needs a spacing 5 to play with to really optimize him. His numbers are actually pretty dang solid with Naz.

The Randle / Rudy pairing is bad, supremely bad considering they play with Ant most of the time.

If the Rudy Randle pairing doesn't improve quickly, we no doubt need to trade Randle (or Rudy). But trading Rudy is idiotic as he is arguably our most important player.

As to Lip. Just getting rid of KAT's salary was a tough thing to do. KAT has shown enough playoff tape where he

-Fouls way too much

- Fouls out

-Shoots like shit

-Can't defend

-Will never win a chip

I'm starting to think it's starting to look like either two things are true, maybe both considering how both Darnold and KAT have had great success leaving MN, even go back to KG.

Our fan base is mostly satisfied enough with being a lovable loser. Winning no championships since 1991 in the 4 pro mens sports. What is the standard here????

That and Finch probably is overrated as HC. I know I gave him a B+, but now I'm starting to think more that he's been more of the problem here then the solution.

Maybe the thing is KAT grew up in the loser mentality of the mid teens Wolves as well. So it took him time to grow winning habits and he did start to show them his last year here playing much improved defense against Denver. (still he failed against the Mavs pretty miserably if I remember correctly).

Interesting reading though in this thread. The pro keep KAT guys are looking a little better! But maybe he never reaches his potential here, that is the real question!!!

[Wolvesfan21]

LOL!! I just heard this question posed on Flagrant Howls right now:

Would you trade Randle, DDV and Detroit pick for KAT?

I couldn't help but chuckle, because the answer is a complete 180 from how many felt a few months ago!

It's pretty amusing how winning changes things.

Many of us (me included) railed on and on about how "boring/unfun" the Timberwolves were for at least 1/2 the season. There was a dour vibe over the entire squad/franchise. Many of us mentioned how little fun there seemed to be in watching this team.

Fast forward... the energy is unmistakable. You can feel it even watching on tv. The way the players interact, especially when on the bench. it's dare I say... FUN.

The switch has flipped again! KAT is coming out on top! Who saw that coming?

[Lipoli390]

LOL!! I just heard this question posed on Flagrant Howls right now:

Would you trade Randle, DDV and Detroit pick for KAT?

I couldn't help but chuckle, because the answer is a complete 180 from how many felt a few months ago!

It's pretty amusing how winning changes things.

Many of us (me included) railed on and on about how "boring/unfun" the Timberwolves were for at least 1/2 the season. There was a dour vibe over the entire squad/franchise. Many of us mentioned how little fun there seemed to be in watching this team.

Fast forward... the energy is unmistakable. You can feel it even watching on tv. The way the players interact, especially when on the bench. it's dare I say... FUN.

The switch has flipped again! KAT is coming out on top! Who saw that coming?

I sort of saw it coming. The KAT trade was necessary for salary purposes because of the Rudy deal. It was probably the best TC could do under the circumstances. But I’ve never thought we were better off with Randle and Donte than with KAT. I remember Rudy’s first season here. You might recall that KAT was out almost the entire season and we ended up dropping from 7th place with 46 wins to 8th place with 42 wins, getting ousted in the 1st round in five games. The next season, with KAT returning, we finished 3rd with 56 wins and made the Western Conference Finals. The next season with Randle and Donte we finished 6th with 49 wins games. We slipped even further this season with another 6th place finish, 49 wins and a second-round exit.

KAT is an elite player; Randle and Donte are not. KAT is a better defender than Randle and much better rebounder. I like Donte, but it’s not that hard to acquire a Donte-type player in free agency or a via relatively minor trade. There are lots of Dontes but very few KATs in the League. Yes, KAT has flaws, which we all saw when he was here - flaws that I think were overly hyped by a frustrated fan base. We always see and get aggregated more by the flaws in those close to us. It’s part of the “grass is greener” syndrome. In truth, lots of all-star caliber players have frustrating flaws. It’s up to the organization to put players on the floor and a coach on the bench who can effectively cover for and manage those flaws and get the best out of the team as a whole.

The whole Randle thing ties significantly back to Finch. He has a man-crush on Randle and I think it’s distorting the organization’s perspective and player personnel decisions. I hope reality has sunk in with TC enough that he finally moves on from Randle. Unfortunately, Donte has been taken away from us by an injury. That’s a significant loss, but a manageable one. The key is moving on from Randle, getting the best possible value in return for him, and shaping our roster around Ant, Jaden, Naz and Ayo. Meanwhile, it’s great to see KAT have success with the Knicks. He’s a terrific person who has always taken the game seriously and given his all every second he’s on the court.

[Wolvesfan21]

It's pretty amusing how winning changes things.

Many of us (me included) railed on and on about how "boring/unfun" the Timberwolves were for at least 1/2 the season. There was a dour vibe over the entire squad/franchise. Many of us mentioned how little fun there seemed to be in watching this team.

Fast forward... the energy is unmistakable. You can feel it even watching on tv. The way the players interact, especially when on the bench. it's dare I say... FUN.

The switch has flipped again! KAT is coming out on top! Who saw that coming?

I sort of saw it coming. The KAT trade was necessary for salary purposes because of the Rudy deal. It was probably the best TC could do under the circumstances. But I’ve never thought we were better off with Randle and Donte than with KAT. I remember Rudy’s first season here. You might recall that KAT was out almost the entire season and we ended up dropping from 7th place with 46 wins to 8th place with 42 wins, getting ousted in the 1st round in five games. The next season, with KAT returning, we finished 3rd with 56 wins and made the Western Conference Finals. The next season with Randle and Donte we finished 6th with 49 wins games. We slipped even further this season with another 6th place finish, 49 wins and a second-round exit.

KAT is an elite player; Randle and Donte are not. KAT is a better defender than Randle and much better rebounder. I like Donte, but it’s not that hard to acquire a Donte-type player in free agency or a via relatively minor trade. There are lots of Dontes but very few KATs in the League. Yes, KAT has flaws, which we all saw when he was here - flaws that I think were overly hyped by a frustrated fan base. We always see and get aggregated more by the flaws in those close to us. It’s part of the “grass is greener” syndrome. In truth, lots of all-star caliber players have frustrating flaws. It’s up to the organization to put players on the floor and a coach on the bench who can effectively cover for and manage those flaws and get the best out of the team as a whole.

The whole Randle thing ties significantly back to Finch. He has a man-crush on Randle and I think it’s distorting the organization’s perspective and player personnel decisions. I hope reality has sunk in with TC enough that he finally moves on from Randle. Unfortunately, Donte has been taken away from us by an injury. That’s a significant loss, but a manageable one. The key is moving on from Randle, getting the best possible value in return for him, and shaping our roster around Ant, Jaden, Naz and Ayo. Meanwhile, it’s great to see KAT have success with the Knicks. He’s a terrific person who has always taken the game seriously and given his all every second he’s on the court.

KAT has taken a step forward in his overall playoff performances, especially on defense. That was the big flaw here, him fouling too much, then sitting on the bench, and then while in foul trouble not playing good defense because of it. The few games I watched this postseason he has seemingly taken a big step forward from avg below avg defender to very good even great one.

Are the coaches in NY doing a better job, or has he just gotten better over time? Maybe both.

Certainly the cap and aprons make it basically impossible to keep 2 supermax players on a roster too and be a contender, so KAT due to his salary needed to go. Unless you can hit homeruns on draft picks, sign great deals in FA, trades, etc...

I think we could have kept KAT, but then Naz was gone being we couldn't stay in the 2nd apron and not winning championships. So then our depth was crud.