Judgement Day - Wolves at Thunder Game 5 GDT

[TAFKASP]

Luckily we got rid of him just soon enough.

I'd disagree, he'd lost a lot of value by last year. Trade him a year or two sooner and you'd likely see a Gobert like haul.

[Wolvesfan21]

Luckily we got rid of him just soon enough.

I'd disagree, he'd lost a lot of value by last year. Trade him a year or two sooner and you'd likely see a Gobert like haul.

Sure, I was wanting to trade him 2 years prior myself!!! But his value was only going down and down. So soon enough I think makes sense.

[KG4Ever]

It's gonna be an interesting offseason. TC has been really good at addressing the deficiencies he sees. I know a lot of people say the KAT trade was done for basketball reasons, but I contend it was done more for the upcoming financial problems facing the Wolves, and that it was the best basketball move TC could make under that circumstance.

So now that the finances are manageable, TC can go back to making moves for basketball reasons.

KAT shot like 30% in the WCF last year, if he shoots league avg we were in the Finals (still likely to get smoked by Boston but sure). KAT's career is that of being mostly trash in the playoffs also (foul trouble and fouling out as well as well as subpar D), so considering he's due to make 60 mill in a couple years. Yikes. It's your problem now NY, you're stuck with him. Luckily we got rid of him just soon enough.

So in the end, I think it was basketball.

30%? You are just making numbers up to try and make KAT appear worse than he was. I crunched the numbers from last year and he shot 38% against Dallas. This year he is shooting over 50% in the conference finals. Way to cherrypick the season that KAT was recovering from a serious injury and then reduce it by 8% to make a phony point. KAT was the number one plus minus player on the Knicks for the Season. Randle was the second worst starter based on plus/minus for year. KAT is much better than Randle and younger. KAT was once considered the best young player to build a franchise around, then he got injured thanks to years of Thib's overplaying him, and he was pretty healthy again and was a top 5 statistical or fantasy player this year.

[KG4Ever]

Lets not forget who created the financial mess. TC did. He brought in Gobert at a very steep cost and added Gobert to a roster that already had KAT on it and with Ant and Jaden on track for big paydays. TC should have just kept Kessler and kept his draft picks and had a better cap situation.

PS: Every time I see TC's face, I want to punch it!

[Lipoli390]

Tipping my cap to those who had the series ending in 5. You saw things a lot more clearly than me.

Thanks, Cool. I’ve just been really impressed by OKC. Winning 68 games in this League is no fluke. And they did that without Holmgren most of the season. They were just a much better team than the Wolves. Looking ahead, the Wolves still have a solid foundation in Ant, Jaden and Naz. But they’re not just a tweak away either.

TC has some roster work to do but he also has to be patient. Ant is still only 23 and Jaden 24. What Ant needs to do now is mature and become smarter, reducing his turnovers. That’s the sort of improvement I would expect from any player who is 23. Jaden is an elite defender who became a very good rebounder this season. In my view, he’s just scratching the surface of his offensive potential. I thought Naz played much better and more consistently as a starter this season and it’s time in my view to cement him as our starting PF up front with Rudy and Jaden. At a minimum, we’ll have far fewer turnovers at the PF position with Naz instead of Julius. We’ll also have better ball movement and spacing. One of Naz Reid’s best attributes is his quick and typically smart decision making with the ball. He’s an incredibly gifted offensive player who has a PF’s size and the ball skills of a SF. I think there’s still a lot of untapped upside in his game. I love TSJ’s potential and I’m also high on Clark and Dilly.

A top roster priority for this organization in my opinion is giving Ant an elite ballhandler to pair with in the backcourt. I think that player will eventually be Rob Dillingham and perhaps as soon as next season. I think Ant’s turnovers would go down significantly if he had an elite ballhandler on the court with him to take some of the pressure off him.

[KG4Ever]

Luckily we got rid of him just soon enough.

I'd disagree, he'd lost a lot of value by last year. Trade him a year or two sooner and you'd likely see a Gobert like haul.

Sure, I was wanting to trade him 2 years prior myself!!! But his value was only going down and down. So soon enough I think makes sense.

He was never Julius Randle bad and he was coming off injury and anyone with half a brain could see this year as a rebound year for KAT. His value is plenty high now and way above Julius Randle dumpster fire value.

[KG4Ever]

Tipping my cap to those who had the series ending in 5. You saw things a lot more clearly than me.

Thanks, Cool. I’ve just been really impressed by OKC. Winning 68 games in this League is no fluke. And they did that without Holmgren most of the season. They were just a much better team than the Wolves. Looking ahead, the Wolves still have a solid foundation in Ant, Jaden and Naz. But they’re not just a tweak away either.

TC has some roster work to do but he also has to be patient. Ant is still only 23 and Jaden 24. What Ant needs to do now is mature and become smarter, reducing his turnovers. That’s the sort of improvement I would expect from any player who is 23. Jaden is an elite defender who became a very good rebounder this season. In my view, he’s just scratching the surface of his offensive potential. I thought Naz played much better and more consistently as a starter this season and it’s time in my view to cement him as our starting PF up front with Rudy and Jaden. At a minimum, we’ll have far fewer turnovers at the PF position with Naz instead of Julius. We’ll also have better ball movement and spacing. One of Naz Reid’s best attributes is his quick and typically smart decision making with the ball. He’s an incredibly gifted offensive player who has a PF’s size and the ball skills of a SF. I think there’s still a lot of untapped upside in his game. I love TSJ’s potential and I’m also high on Clark and Dilly.

A top roster priority for this organization in my opinion is giving Ant an elite ballhandler to pair with in the backcourt. I think that player will eventually be Rob Dillingham and perhaps as soon as next season. I think Ant’s turnovers would go down significantly if he had an elite ballhandler on the court with him to take some of the pressure off him.

Honestly, Naz is not a foundational piece if you have title aspirations. He's a feel good story as an unsigned free agency, nothing more. Jaden has been too inconsistent and often is passive. He has the talent and maybe another coach can get it out of him as I don't think Finch will be able to tap much more out of Jaden. Really, Wolves are down to dart throws to add talent around Ant. Dilly, TSJ, 17th pick--something has to hit in a surprisingly good way or the Antcentric Wolves may seen its best days. OKC has a much better core and deeper team plus a crapload of draft picks to sustain talent. The Spurs have Wemby, Castle, Fox, Vassell and the second pick which they can add Harper or swap it for Giannis. They also have the assets to add Durant if they wanted, but I don't think it makes much sense given their core's timeline. Dallas will be able to add Cooper Flagg to AD and eventually Kyrie when he can return plus Lively, Gafford and Klay. Lakers will likely add a center and I think they should have added Mark Wiliams even if the physical wasn't perfect.

The best road to improvement is to add a coach who can develop more than 8 guys and who can make playoff adjustments.

[Lipoli390]

Yup, he does indeed. Now we need to go back to Lip's thread about bringing everyone back (he had a question mark) and folks can revisit their initial thoughts!

I guess we'll find out what TC and Finchy put more weight on: the fact that we went 25-6 from the time Julius returned from injury through the first two rounds of the playoffs, or the fact that we got our azzes handed to us by the best team in the NBA. Right now this seems more important, but the 31 games before these 5 have to mean something.

We played mostly weak opponents or teams missing key players. And even without that, you can't attribute all that winning to just Ju. We had several players going well. This series has clearly spoken to me in terms of whether he should be back. Bringing him back sets a low ceiling for sure. I can't stand it when idiots like Doris refer to him and Ant as our two stars.

Good point, Cool. I’ll add that you can give only so much weight to what a 30 year old 9 year vet does in a one-month stretch of his career. We pretty much know who Randle is and also how he fits on this team. I like him and think he’s a good player. But he’s never going to be the second or even the third best player on a championship team. He’s a PF who turns the ball over way more than acceptable for a player at his position. He’s a poor defender and not a rim protector. He’s an excellent offensive player but not elite and not a floor spacer. I can see him as a rotation bench player at $15 million per year, but not a starter at $30 million per year. As you noted bringing him back sets a low ceiling. I thought your phrase captured it perfectly.

[TheFuture]

We've discussed Ant's plight a lot this year. What do make of him at this point in time?

1) Just not ready, still baking?

2) A bit overrated?

3) Still going to be the face of the league?

4) Dime a dozen all star?

5) Lacking some quality the great ones possess?

6) Off-court distractions a problem?

1 - still baking

At 23 his game is extremely impressive. He is being compared to players that are in their prime years. That is a great thing. Plenty to improve on, but he improves something every year. Like becoming the leading 3pt shooter this season. I have plenty of faith there will be another added tool next season. I believe critics are a bit too harsh on him and forget his age. That shows just how talented he truly is.

I mean, at 23 he has led the Wolves to back to back WCF. Sky is still the limit.

P.S. I know you're super high on Jaden, as am I, but he is never going to be more than a #3 on a championship team, in my opinion. Ant needs a true sidekick #2.

[FNG]

Tipping my cap to those who had the series ending in 5. You saw things a lot more clearly than me.

Maybe not, Cool. My recollection was you said we could win a long series, but that it was just as likely OkC would beat us in 4 or 5. I had the same feeling to be honest, but I think I only posted my prediction of Thunder in 5.