I don't think he needs to be a flopper, or notorious foul baiter, but there are things he could take away from SGA. One thing Ant could use is that off arm push off that SGA uses every other drive to get separation.
+ 4 points per game puts him on 1st team All NBA and gets the Wolves 55+ wins. He's not getting there with push offs.
Getting fouled does more than get that player on the line. It gets the opposing player (usually their best defender) on their heels or even out of the game. It slows the game down so the defense is set. We saw firsthand how demoralizing it is.
Can't beat em... join em. (at least until they start changing the rules to prevent the egregious tactic)
Finch did indeed mention this as a goal for Ant, but he did so somewhat gritting his teeth, implying that he's not a big fan of the grifting himself.
I think what Finch mentioned that is even more important is for Ant to come up with a "finishing package", which he defined as something he can get to in late-game offense in a reliable manner. That would indeed include the push-off move Rap mentions along with a more reliable mid-range jumper.
Where my head just sank in resignation is when SGA or JDub would make a quick move to get the defense off balance (with or without an off arm push off) and then sink the 15 footer nearly every damn time. It's the type of shot that's there in playoff basketball and those guys have it in their bag, especially SGA.
Yeah, and Dane and Robson talked about it on their podcast today. After Robson made the mandatory disclaimer that he is not a fan of foul baiting (he even went so far is to say he didn't even think SGA was a fan of it!), he did admit it would make Ant a more potent scorer. But then he mentioned another point that I have repeated several times here because...well, I'm repetitive. He said almost as important a skill for guys like Brunson and Shae to get a favorable whistle as their grifting is their ability to work the refs effectively. I've never reffed a basketball game, and I think I'd be really bad at it. But I've umpired a lot of baseball games, and I know that there are maybe a dozen calls during a game where you're just not sure...could go either way. Subconsciously (or sometimes consciously) I would make the call in favor of the coach I liked best. Ant is an extremely likable guy, much more so than SGA or Brunson. But he does things to piss off the refs. Not only by whining when he doesn't get a call he wants, but as Robson pointed out, sometimes even when he does get a call from a ref not closest to him, he'll call out the closer ref who didn't give him the call! Nobody likes to be criticized for being bad at their job, and Ant's whining doesn't help him on the next call. Britt said even an unlikable guy like Draymond knows this, and has cultivated a good relationship with many of the refs in the league by talking to them and not constantly showing them up. Britt acknowledged that Ant has dialed back the "Heys" (I hadn't noticed that, but looking back, I think he's right), so someone is coaching him to work the refs better. I want to see him get better at all the little things that will lead to more free throws, and I expect to see him improve at this over the summer. And I also expect that all you guys who criticize SGA for his foul baiting will be equally critical of Ant when he does it .
Julius said he “loves it here” and referred to this past season as “the most meaningful basketball of his career.’ That’s quite a statement. So no doubt he REALLY wants to return. The great debate is whether it’s in this team’s best interest to have him back. The choice will ultimately be Randle’s since since he has a $30 million player option. I’m torn myself on whether we’re better off with or without him returning next season.
It was interesting to hear Donte refer to Ant, Jaden and Naz as the team’s core. He also clearly loves playing here, talking about how much he loves the fans and his teammates. He’s clearly a huge Ant fan.
Mike Conley’s most interesting comment was about the need for individually players to take the game more seriously and develop good habits who they don’t have to watch the same film 1000 times to stop making the same mistakes - or something to that effect. When you hear a guy like Conley say something like that you take it seriously. I can’t help but wonder which players he’s thinking about with that comment.
Finch had a number of interesting comments. One of the more telling comments was that we need better spacing and better ballhandler on the floor with Edwards. I agree completely. Singling out the need for those two specific things suggests roster issues. We’re not going to get better spacing with Rudy and Randle on the court together. And better ballhandling on the court means either Rob Dillingham or someone who’s not currently on the roster.
Speaking of Rob, Finch said he was impressed by Rob’s defensive growth. Regarding Rob’s offense he said Rob needs to make things simpler. He said the most important thing for Rob is recognizing the opportunity he has. Finch then referred specifically to the need to “manage Conley’s minutes.”
Finch also referred to the tendency of players to overdribble - the sticky hands syndrome, although he didn’t use that term. Finch didn’t mention any players in particular, but we all know that Ant and Randle have the stickiest hands on the roster. As as guard and our star, we should expect Ant to have somewhat sticky hands as MJ and Kobe did, although he can probably improve in that area. I’m not sure where all this leaves Randle.
Finch thinks TSJ can be a great defender. Finch also talked Leave trending towards more size but “skilled bigs” like Holmgren. He talked about how all the switching has diminished Rudy’s gravitational pull offensively. I really wonder whether this team will shop Rudy this off seasons. Finch was elated by the offensive improvement of Jaden this season. You can tell he’s a huge Jaden McDaniels fan.
I continue to lean towards bringing back everyone except NAW and Ingles. But I also have a sense that we might be better off moving on from either Randle or Rudy.
If we bring back the same cast including Randle, does anyone think we can beat OKC? No, that would be like giving up, much like Randle did in game 5. There has to be changes and I'm looking forward to what TC can pull off.
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:43 am
If we bring back the same cast including Randle, does anyone think we can beat OKC? No, that would be like giving up, much like Randle did in game 5. There has to be changes and I'm looking forward to what TC can pull off.
Sometimes a single short question can provide essential clarity. Your question provides that clarity. You gave what I think is the correct answer - this team will not beat OKC with the same five including Randle. I’ll add that I don’t think we will be able to beat what will likely be an improved Houston team next season or Indiana but I could be wrong. Therefore, I could accept bringing Randle back with everyone else except NAW and Ingles. On the other hand, I think you’re probably right and in my mind that means moving on from either Randle or Rudy this summer. If we move on from Rudy, however, we’ll have to acquire a starting center because I can’t see Naz and Randle as our two starting bigs defensively.
Regarding Randle, I wonder what sort of trade value he’ll have assuming he exercises his $30 million option.
What makes Randle a bit of a conundrum is that he absolutely helped us end the regular season strong and get to the Western Conference Finals as a legit #2 option....but then OKC's defense was just too much for him and he was coughing up the ball all over the place.
I think what convinced me that we should let go of Randle/trade him is not necessarily his individual effectiveness, but how his high usage affects others from spreading their wings more, including Jaden.
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 9:12 pm
What makes Randle a bit of a conundrum is that he absolutely helped us end the regular season strong and get to the Western Conference Finals as a legit #2 option....but then OKC's defense was just too much for him and he was coughing up the ball all over the place.
I think what convinced me that we should let go of Randle/trade him is not necessarily his individual effectiveness, but how his high usage affects others from spreading their wings more, including Jaden.
Finch said in his exit interview that heading into the season, the plan was to develop Jaden's play making over the season. But then the Randle trade happened and things changed. But we saw the growth from Jaden when Randle went out. So, that is a dilemma for Finch heading into next season if Randle is still here.
In addition, there's talk about getting another play maker along side ANT in the backcourt, because although Randle has been a decent playmaker, the OKC defense shut him down. A play making backcourt partner with ANT would have made a difference. I absolutely fault Finch in this regard -- his loyalty to Mike did a disservice to both the team and to Mike.
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 9:12 pm
What makes Randle a bit of a conundrum is that he absolutely helped us end the regular season strong and get to the Western Conference Finals as a legit #2 option....but then OKC's defense was just too much for him and he was coughing up the ball all over the place.
I think what convinced me that we should let go of Randle/trade him is not necessarily his individual effectiveness, but how his high usage affects others from spreading their wings more, including Jaden.
Finch said in his exit interview that heading into the season, the plan was to develop Jaden's play making over the season. But then the Randle trade happened and things changed. But we saw the growth from Jaden when Randle went out. So, that is a dilemma for Finch heading into next season if Randle is still here.
In addition, there's talk about getting another play maker along side ANT in the backcourt, because although Randle has been a decent playmaker, the OKC defense shut him down. A play making backcourt partner with ANT would have made a difference. I absolutely fault Finch in this regard -- his loyalty to Mike did a disservice to both the team and to Mike.
Tim and Q - I think you are both spot on. I agree with Q that what tips the scale against keeping Randle is his usage and how that constrains Jaden. I also agree with Tim that a playmaking/ballhandling backcourt partner wiht Ant would have made a significant positive difference.
I’m not defending Randle here and I don’t want to extend him (fine with him opting in). I think it is personally dumb to make decisions on if a player can succeed against a specific team. Like the NBA chances so fast now, teams loaded up to stop the nuggets and now they are not a top tier contender, the Celtics were on pace to be a dynasty and now have one of the weirder situations in the NBA. The Thunder are looking like a monster incoming however next offseason their top 3 could make 165 million for just those 3. Also if the nuggets beat OKC in game 7 the wolves are probably the finals favorite.
Just personally I think it’s dumb to make huge decisions based on one potential matchup that might never happen. Thunder are a terrible matchup for Randle however I think he is a great matchup for the majority of the NBA.
This is not me defending Randle but I just think it’s a narrow way to think about things only fixating on one significant matchup
kekgeek wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:38 pm
I’m not defending Randle here and I don’t want to extend him (fine with him opting in). I think it is personally dumb to make decisions on if a player can succeed against a specific team. Like the NBA chances so fast now, teams loaded up to stop the nuggets and now they are not a top tier contender, the Celtics were on pace to be a dynasty and now have one of the weirder situations in the NBA. The Thunder are looking like a monster incoming however next offseason their top 3 could make 165 million for just those 3. Also if the nuggets beat OKC in game 7 the wolves are probably the finals favorite.
Just personally I think it’s dumb to make huge decisions based on one potential matchup that might never happen. Thunder are a terrible matchup for Randle however I think he is a great matchup for the majority of the NBA.
This is not me defending Randle but I just think it’s a narrow way to think about things only fixating on one significant matchup
When you don't win the championship and you're not a completely young team that's building, you have to make some changes. And when you look at those changes, you need to focus on individuals. So ask yourself what would make us better. Trading Ant or Jaden? Definitely not. Rudy? Unless we can replace his rim protection that wouldn't make much sense. Conley? He's really irrelevant at this point. Who does that leave? Well one guy is a player leaving his prime who happened to quit in your final game of the year. Given the choice I would keep NAZ over Randle for multiple reasons. If Randle opts in and you want to waste a year, you can keep him, get knocked out in the first or second round and then let him walk. You would have to be complete idiot to negotiate an extension for him this offseason. And since I don't think TC is an idiot, get ready to lose Julius this offseason or sometime during the season.
kekgeek wrote: ↑Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:38 pm
I’m not defending Randle here and I don’t want to extend him (fine with him opting in). I think it is personally dumb to make decisions on if a player can succeed against a specific team. Like the NBA chances so fast now, teams loaded up to stop the nuggets and now they are not a top tier contender, the Celtics were on pace to be a dynasty and now have one of the weirder situations in the NBA. The Thunder are looking like a monster incoming however next offseason their top 3 could make 165 million for just those 3. Also if the nuggets beat OKC in game 7 the wolves are probably the finals favorite.
Just personally I think it’s dumb to make huge decisions based on one potential matchup that might never happen. Thunder are a terrible matchup for Randle however I think he is a great matchup for the majority of the NBA.
This is not me defending Randle but I just think it’s a narrow way to think about things only fixating on one significant matchup
When you don't win the championship and you're not a completely young team that's building, you have to make some changes. And when you look at those changes, you need to focus on individuals. So ask yourself what would make us better. Trading Ant or Jaden? Definitely not. Rudy? Unless we can replace his rim protection that wouldn't make much sense. Conley? He's really irrelevant at this point. Who does that leave? Well one guy is a player leaving his prime who happened to quit in your final game of the year. Given the choice I would keep NAZ over Randle for multiple reasons. If Randle opts in and you want to waste a year, you can keep him, get knocked out in the first or second round and then let him walk. You would have to be complete idiot to negotiate an extension for him this offseason. And since I don't think TC is an idiot, get ready to lose Julius this offseason or sometime during the season.
I want to say I’m not even defending Randle. Extending him would be dumb in my opinion. However I think if the wolves chose to run it back I don’t think next years championship window is dead on arrival. I don’t want to get rid of Randle just to get rid of Randle because we are scared of OKC. So much can change in a six month span.
I personally think Randle is good enough to beat every team in the nba next year outside of OKC, just think we shouldn’t make gigantic changes if there is not a clear upgrade from Randle. Randle in my opinion is a net positive on a one year deal on an extension (assuming not a massive paycut) Randle is a pretty big net negative
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