Would you trade the farm for Giannis? Every asset but Ant?

[Lipoli390]

realistically we don't have enough to get him.

Because of that, my answer is yes.

we also have to ignore Ant's age. I don't want Ant's success to predicated upon who else was good in the 2019-21 nba drafts. The team went after Rudy because they felt it could help Ant now. We traded for old man Conley because Ant still needs his hand held in big spots. The team's pursuing Durant because regardless of age, Durant would be an ideal 2nd option to Ant.

Point is, don't let age be a dealbreaker for what this team needs, especially when TC has determined that they can compete now.

It typically takes years of core players playing together before a team gets to the NBA finals. In that sense age matters. You want your core guys playing together at their peak for as long as possible just to get to the Finals and then of course you want that success to be sustainable for years thereafter. Therefore, you don’t want a core that consists of your #1 star entering his prime when the other key guys (your #2) are exiting his prime. Durant is well past his prime. His play has already declined and historically players his age often decline very quickly year to year. Giannis is still in his prime and should be for a couple more years, but when you see how many games he’s been missing recently and watch him you see his body breaking down sooner than most in part because of how he plays. As I’ve mentioned, I also don’t think Giannis fits particularly well with Ant.

The team at one point thought their core was gonna be Ant, Jaden and Naz. They've done what you asked them to do. The problem now seems to be that Reid and McDaniels might be good but not good enough and anyone else who's younger (in our case, TSJ is older than Ant), the coach is hesitant to use. The ideal 2nd banana to Ant isn't gonna be readily available, especially to a team that has blown through it's draft capital, so like most teams seem to do, that guy is gonna have to come via the draft. If we can't bet that Connelly can identify that guy that way, then I don't get why he's even here. Finding talent via the draft is why we found TC to be appealing in the first place.

I generally agree with you, Wildwolf, although I’m not yet ready to concede that Jaden and Naz can’t be the #2 #3 for Ant on a championship team with the right pieces around them. Having said that, I tend to agree that Jaden and Naz have both fallen short so far and may not be what we were hoping they’d be. I can see TSJ or Rob Dillingham (may both) developing int the key complementary core player Ant needs to help take us over the hump to the NBA finals. As you noted, a championship team’s core two or three guys typically come via the draft or a trade for a recently drafted player who the other team has given up on or elected to jettison in favor of chasing older vets. I like the vast majority of TC’s picks so far and I see great potential in TSJ, Dilly, Clark and Miller. I still see significant potential in Minott but I’m more skeptical about his chances of reaching that potential. Kessler was a terrific pick as well. He had a terrific 3rd season averaging over 12 rebounds and 2.4 blocks per game. He has two nice picks to worth with this month. I’d like to see him hit a home run - or at least a triple - with at least one of them. As you said, hitting big in the draft has always been TC’s calling card and that’s what ultimately earned him the big pay day he got here. We pay him to out smart the other GMs in the draft.

[AussieWolf3]

I'm pretty sold on Jaden being at least a #3 on a championship roster, but the Wolves need to clear the path for him to do that cause he's banging down the door at this point.

It's a bit of a strech for him to be a #2 and I wouldn't bet on it but it is with the realm of his potential, he'll need to keep getting stronger and rounding out his offensive game- but his mid range shooting and finishing around the rim is VERY promising in a addition to his defense.

It's a lot harder to see Naz reaching either of those levels but again, perhaps a clearer runway would provide him better footing to take the next step

[Q-is-here]

I'm pretty sold on Jaden being at least a #3 on a championship roster, but the Wolves need to clear the path for him to do that cause he's banging down the door at this point.

It's a bit of a strech for him to be a #2 and I wouldn't bet on it but it is with the realm of his potential, he'll need to keep getting stronger and rounding out his offensive game- but his mid range shooting and finishing around the rim is VERY promising in a addition to his defense.

It's a lot harder to see Naz reaching either of those levels but again, perhaps a clearer runway would provide him better footing to take the next step

When Randle was out in the month of February, Jaden averaged 18.5 pts/8.4 rebs/2.9 assists/1.7 TOs.

Those are not quite 2nd option numbers, as I feel like the points and assists fall just a bit short. But he's not far off the type of slash line you'd expect from a #2 guy throughout the playoffs. For the sake of comparison, here is what Randle did this past post-season. And this includes the OKC debacles:

Randle - 21.7 pts/5.9 rebs/4.9 assts/3.3 TOs

[Coolbreeze44]

Jaden can get there if the team allows it to happen. He won't get there if he has to continue to reach for hand me downs and scraps while not being a preferred option. He does pretty damn well for someone who shoulders a huge defensive load and has to fight his own teammates for offense. And he always shows up at playoff time.

[AussieWolf3]

Jaden can get there if the team allows it to happen. He won't get there if he has to continue to reach for hand me downs and scraps while not being a preferred option. He does pretty damn well for someone who shoulders a huge defensive load and has to fight his own teammates for offense. And he always shows up at playoff time.

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

It's why I'm growing more convinced that extending Julius could prove to be fatal decision if the team goes that route, even tho I would absolutely understand the decision (and personally I really like the way Ju plays).

The team could get more synced up and with growth from Ant, Jaden and the young guys could have another 23-24 type of run with Julius on the team but I really think they've shown that isn't enough offensive punch to get all the way there.

Julius won't get any better, and they need to start cashing in bets on guys like McDaniels, Shannon and Dilly to see what they can become if given the chance.

- I like the numbers you pulled Q and they certainly back up what I imagined would be the case, which is that Jaden still has a ways to go as a playmaker and I really don't know if he gets there. I'm very confident his scoring can go up, but I'm unsure of his capability as a secondary ball handler- which is by far the biggest hang up I have between keeping Julius and handing the reins to the young guys.

I still think they need to largely buy into what they are growing in house and not make any big desperate moves

[FNG]

I'm pretty sold on Jaden being at least a #3 on a championship roster, but the Wolves need to clear the path for him to do that cause he's banging down the door at this point.

It's a bit of a strech for him to be a #2 and I wouldn't bet on it but it is with the realm of his potential, he'll need to keep getting stronger and rounding out his offensive game- but his mid range shooting and finishing around the rim is VERY promising in a addition to his defense.

It's a lot harder to see Naz reaching either of those levels but again, perhaps a clearer runway would provide him better footing to take the next step

When Randle was out in the month of February, Jaden averaged 18.5 pts/8.4 rebs/2.9 assists/1.7 TOs.

Those are not quite 2nd option numbers, as I feel like the points and assists fall just a bit short. But he's not far off the type of slash line you'd expect from a #2 guy throughout the playoffs. For the sake of comparison, here is what Randle did this past post-season. And this includes the OKC debacles:

Randle - 21.7 pts/5.9 rebs/4.9 assts/3.3 TOs

Yes, Jaden had a productive February when Ju was out. But the Wolves did not, going 5-8 for the month. And we know what happened when Ju returned and Jaden was allowed to return to the role most suited for him. I love Jaden, but I'm convinced he is at his best when not asked to do too much on the offensive end, like he was asked to do in February.

[Q-is-here]

I'm pretty sold on Jaden being at least a #3 on a championship roster, but the Wolves need to clear the path for him to do that cause he's banging down the door at this point.

It's a bit of a strech for him to be a #2 and I wouldn't bet on it but it is with the realm of his potential, he'll need to keep getting stronger and rounding out his offensive game- but his mid range shooting and finishing around the rim is VERY promising in a addition to his defense.

It's a lot harder to see Naz reaching either of those levels but again, perhaps a clearer runway would provide him better footing to take the next step

When Randle was out in the month of February, Jaden averaged 18.5 pts/8.4 rebs/2.9 assists/1.7 TOs.

Those are not quite 2nd option numbers, as I feel like the points and assists fall just a bit short. But he's not far off the type of slash line you'd expect from a #2 guy throughout the playoffs. For the sake of comparison, here is what Randle did this past post-season. And this includes the OKC debacles:

Randle - 21.7 pts/5.9 rebs/4.9 assts/3.3 TOs

Yes, Jaden had a productive February when Ju was out. But the Wolves did not, going 5-8 for the month. And we know what happened when Ju returned and Jaden was allowed to return to the role most suited for him. I love Jaden, but I'm convinced he is at his best when not asked to do too much on the offensive end, like he was asked to do in February.

Yeah, most NBA second options that go on to win titles are carrying a big load offensively when the first option is on the bench. Many would be 1st options offensively if they played for a different team. Think Jaylen Brown when Tatum is sitting or Khris Middleton when Giannis was sitting. These guys can get you 30 points if they have to.

I think there is some happy medium where Jaden is maximized and perhaps we saw it in this last post-season where he was our 3rd leading scorer while still being a menace defensively. That doesn't mean he can't take on more offensively, but to me there is an upper limit of between 16-18 PPG before it starts affecting his efficiency and defensive impact.

But I definitely agree that he should not spend 100% of his time as our main POA defender and then put in the corner on offense and given scraps. That's not maximizing him either and thankfully I think Finch has come around on that.

[rapsuperstar31]

Giannis is one of the few players I would include Jaden in. I don't think we have the assets without draft picks or at least acquiring draft picks by make a trade or two first to get picks.

[KG4Ever]

I'm pretty sold on Jaden being at least a #3 on a championship roster, but the Wolves need to clear the path for him to do that cause he's banging down the door at this point.

It's a bit of a strech for him to be a #2 and I wouldn't bet on it but it is with the realm of his potential, he'll need to keep getting stronger and rounding out his offensive game- but his mid range shooting and finishing around the rim is VERY promising in a addition to his defense.

It's a lot harder to see Naz reaching either of those levels but again, perhaps a clearer runway would provide him better footing to take the next step

When Randle was out in the month of February, Jaden averaged 18.5 pts/8.4 rebs/2.9 assists/1.7 TOs.

Those are not quite 2nd option numbers, as I feel like the points and assists fall just a bit short. But he's not far off the type of slash line you'd expect from a #2 guy throughout the playoffs. For the sake of comparison, here is what Randle did this past post-season. And this includes the OKC debacles:

Randle - 21.7 pts/5.9 rebs/4.9 assts/3.3 TOs

This is one reason why I want to get rid of Randle. He' s impeding the progress of our younger guys.

[AussieWolf3]

I'm pretty sold on Jaden being at least a #3 on a championship roster, but the Wolves need to clear the path for him to do that cause he's banging down the door at this point.

It's a bit of a strech for him to be a #2 and I wouldn't bet on it but it is with the realm of his potential, he'll need to keep getting stronger and rounding out his offensive game- but his mid range shooting and finishing around the rim is VERY promising in a addition to his defense.

It's a lot harder to see Naz reaching either of those levels but again, perhaps a clearer runway would provide him better footing to take the next step

When Randle was out in the month of February, Jaden averaged 18.5 pts/8.4 rebs/2.9 assists/1.7 TOs.

Those are not quite 2nd option numbers, as I feel like the points and assists fall just a bit short. But he's not far off the type of slash line you'd expect from a #2 guy throughout the playoffs. For the sake of comparison, here is what Randle did this past post-season. And this includes the OKC debacles:

Randle - 21.7 pts/5.9 rebs/4.9 assts/3.3 TOs

Yes, Jaden had a productive February when Ju was out. But the Wolves did not, going 5-8 for the month. And we know what happened when Ju returned and Jaden was allowed to return to the role most suited for him. I love Jaden, but I'm convinced he is at his best when not asked to do too much on the offensive end, like he was asked to do in February.

This is a bit obtuse is it not?
Yes the team had a losing record but that on its own is not an indictment of Jaden's role during that time.
Quite simply Jaden flourished during this time playing like a big and not a wing. He's 6'11" with what a 7'4" wingspan or something like that, I just don't see how that projects to him being well suited to poa defense long term, especially as he continues to put on bulk and add strength (which I hope he keeps doing). He has done so well as a backside defender, playing closer to the rim, and his rebounding has gotten so much better.

The fact is that if he continues to be the main perimeter defender he will get taken advantage of against quicker guards- Steph, Fox, SGA, Morant and the like have always been much tougher covers for him because for all of his exceptional athletism, he's not all that quick laterally. Jaden makes up for it with his length and has gotten better at trail defense which is why he can continue to he used as a versatile defender but I really think he should be seen as the team's starting PF going forward and possibly a defensive achor going forward (but that requires a bit of projection).

Of course, part of the reason for this is his burgeoning offensive game. He's the best finisher on the team and his mid range is getting really really good. I don't believe he'll ever be the teams second option, but i fully believe he can be a highly effective third option who helps open things up for others and can abuse mismatches