I tend to agree with you, Tim. The more time that passes the more likely Durant will relent and agree to sign an extension with the Wolves. That will be a bad day for this organization. Durant doesn’t want to be here, but he’ll eventually take the money because the Suns won’t trade him where he wants to go. Based on reports, that’s a lot o money. Can the Wolves “make the salaries work” as in stay below the 2nd apron paying Durant $54 million next season and then $120 million over the next two seasons? Next season, yes. The following two seasons, maybe. But the team will be transactionally constrained with limited draft capital and a player approaching 40 who doesn’t defend well and has trouble staying on the court.60WinTim wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 8:14 am Tick, tick, tick...
Another day with no movement on KD is another day the Wolves are closer to getting him!
If we get past the draft, KD will be forced to reconsider the Wolves, including an extension. I've run some numbers, and the Wolves can make the salaries work for a few years.
Kevin Durant Rumors
Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
Yeah, that could be worse. I'm not 100% opposed to a Durant deal, but TC needs to be judicious about any young assets he gives up. I'd be okay with one of the two picks and any of our young guys other than TJ, Clark and Rob. But the upside just isn't high enough to give up any promising talent. And Rob plus anything else for Fox would be a disaster I think. But I recognize I'm higher on Rob than the majority here.Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 9:33 amI agree, FNG. But I’m even more aghast at the notion of including Dilly in a package for the 37 year old Durant who doesn’t fill a position of need, has trouble staying on the court and subtracts from the team’s speed and athleticism in a League where the two finalists are extremely fast, young athletic teams.FNG wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 6:41 am I don't understand any discussion of giving up assets, including Rob, to get a PG like Fox. Both played 1 year against top level competition at Kentucky, and here were their per 40 stats:
Rob: 26.1/5/6.6
Fox: 22.6/5.4/6.2
Quite close in rebounds and assists, although Rob was the more dynamic scorer. But the real difference was in 3-point shooting, where Rob made 44.4% of his treys while Fox only 24.6! As a result, not only was Rob a more proficient scorer, but also a more efficient one: 59.5 TS% compared to 54.9%. Unlike Rob, Fox was instantly given a starting role with the Kings because he had joined a woeful team that went 32-50 the previous season. Fox's efficiency is better in the pros than it was in college, and that is to be expected...he was the focus of the defense when he was at Kentucky, while in the pros there are many other scorers defenses have to focus on. I expect the same from Rob, as he won't get nearly the same amount of defensive attention playing next to Ant as he did in college. Just imagine how efficiently he might be scoring in the pros given more open looks!
Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
Fox played with Malik Monk and Bam. Fox did get to the line at a much higher rate at UK.FNG wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 6:41 am I don't understand any discussion of giving up assets, including Rob, to get a PG like Fox. Both played 1 year against top level competition at Kentucky, and here were their per 40 stats:
Rob: 26.1/5/6.6
Fox: 22.6/5.4/6.2
Quite close in rebounds and assists, although Rob was the more dynamic scorer. But the real difference was in 3-point shooting, where Rob made 44.4% of his treys while Fox only 24.6! As a result, not only was Rob a more proficient scorer, but also a more efficient one: 59.5 TS% compared to 54.9%. Unlike Rob, Fox was instantly given a starting role with the Kings because he had joined a woeful team that went 32-50 the previous season. Fox's efficiency is better in the pros than it was in college, and that is to be expected...he was the focus of the defense when he was at Kentucky, while in the pros there are many other scorers defenses have to focus on. I expect the same from Rob, as he won't get nearly the same amount of defensive attention playing next to Ant as he did in college. Just imagine how efficiently he might be scoring in the pros given more open looks!
Dillingham missing time with injury his first pro season is a negative that I need to mention before I bring up how many games Fox has missed in his career. I'm guessing he would have played more games last year if the Spurs were trying hard to win games but still that's a negative about Fox and he turns 28 in December. I'm guessing there may have been times Dillingham could have got out there this year if there was a greater need. I'm not worrying too much about injuries for him at this point but Fox I definitely would considering his salary and what it would take to acquire him.
Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
Check out the following report on the continuing Durant saga: “The reports that the Raptors are monitoring his situation are credible and make sense, given Toronto had conversations with the Suns back in February about the possibility of a Durant trade. But to cut through some of the smoke: multiple sources have confirmed to me that Raptors centre Jakob Poeltl would not be part of any deal — however unlikely a Raptors-Suns deal might be — centred around Durant. The Suns were asking for Poeltl at the trade deadline and got a firm ‘no’ back then, but that hasn’t stopped them from asking, apparently.” – via SportsNet
I find this report interesting. Toronto apparently won’t give up Poeltl for Durant. Poeltl is a good player, averaging 14.5 points and nearly 10 rebounds last season. But he’s not a great rim protector or defender and he’s not anything close to a cornerstone player. Moreover, at age 30 he has no more remaining upside. Toronto is apparently unwilling to give up their #9 pick in this year’s draft. I’m not sure who else they might be willing to give up for KD. I’ve seen reports the Raptors are shopping RJ Barrett. A recent report suggested they might be willing to part with Scottie Barnes. But I suspect they’d rather package one or both of those two in a package for someone other than KD. If the Suns can get Barrett or Barnes for KD, they should take it.
Meanwhile, the Spurs are apparently unwilling to give up their #2 pick (Harper) or Castle even though those two and Fox all play the same position. I haven’t seen any buzz on whether the Suns are interested in Fox. Of Durant’s three desired destinations, the Spurs seem the least interested in him.
The Rockets are understandably not open to trading Sengun or Thompson for KD. Reports indicate that Houston has offered Jalen Green and the 10th pick in this year’s draft but the Suns are pushing for more, including some combination of Jabari Smith, Tari Eason and/or Reed Sheppard. I can see why the Suns wouldn’t be content with only Green since he plays the same position as their best player, Booker. So I suspect Green’s main value to the Suns is as an asset for another deal this summer or down the road. Reed has a very bad rookie season but in very limited minutes and Houston doesn’t have a PG behind VanVleet on it roster. Houston seems loaded with young talent at the SF position, including Thompson, Smith, Eason and Whitmore. If I were Houston, I’d try to get the Suns to bite on Whitmore but I might be willing to give up Smith or Eason (probably Smith) for KD given the team’s bevy of young talent at the position. Thompson is clearly the star in that group of four young SFs.
Miami is apparently unwilling to give up Ware (and presumably Bam) in a deal. That makes sense from Miami’s perspective, in which case I don’t see anything with Miami that would make sense for the Suns.
As for Minnesota, the most recent report indicated that the Suns are trying to get Minnesota’s #17 pick as part of a deal. Would that be in addition to Dilly? We’ve heard various reports on what the Wolves have offered. One report says we offered Randle, Donte and Dilly. I suspect we’ve offered more - probably oru #31 pick and maybe Minott or Miller. Other reports indicated we’ve offered Rudy and Donte along with either Dilly or TSJ and possible one or both of our picks this year. Rudy makes more sense from the Suns’ perspective because it’s widely known they want a center. Randle makes more sense from the Wolves perspective because we have Naz and given Durant’s defensive limitations it makes sense to keep Rudy. However, trading Randle only works if he’s willing to go to Phoenix because he’d have to agree to a sign-and-trade. And of course, Durant would have to relent and agree to sign a lucrative extension with a team he’d rather not play for.
My prediction:
I continue to believe the Wolves will end up with KD. Based on reports so far, it appears that the Suns were ready to accept the Wolves offer and that the only snag was Durant’s unwillingness to sign an extension. I’m convinced Durant will eventually agree an extension with the Wolves because I don’t think any of the other suitors have the same level of interest in KD as TC does and therefore won’t increase their offers. At some point, KD will face a choice: (1) stay with a losing team he wants to leave on his current one-year deal with a risk of injury that might preclude getting a lucrative contract as a free agent next summer, or (2) sign a two-year extension with the Wolves worth $120 million. How can there be any doubt about the choice KD will make.
If not the Wolves, I think it will be Houston. Apparently, Houston’s newly extended head coach is close to Durant and the Houston organization knows Durant really wants to be there, which means KD’s heart would be in it. Also, Houston can offer a top 10 pick this year and more young talent for a Suns organization that should be focused on a major re-tool if not a full rebuild. Heck, the Suns didn’t even make the play-in tournament this past season and they were swept by the Wolves in the previous season’s first round. The question is whether the Rockets will ultimately agree to part with one of their talented young backup SFs (Smith or Eason) and or PG Reed Sheppard. In my view, the Suns should be focused like a laser on Houston. Green will be a valuable asset either as a player or trade piece and the #10 pick will be valuable as well. The Rockets have the rights to the Suns’ 2027 1st round pick (unprotected). That same year, the Rockets have swap rights with Brooklyn, which will likely garner them a lottery pick. In other words, the Suns should be able to get their own 2027 1st round pick back.
The reality of the moment is that there is an obvious lack of interest in KD around the League, with only at most five teams showing any interest - Wolves, Rockets, Heat, Spurs, Raptors. And except for the Wolves, there’s an obvious lack of enthusiasm among those who are interested. I’m not surprised by the lack of interest or enthusiasm for a 37 year old, largely one-way player with durability questions and a recent history of losing who will consumer around $175 million of a team’s payroll over the next three seasons ($54M next season + a 2-year $120M extension) all the way to just before his 40th birthday.
If I were in TC’s position I’d be aligned with the 25 teams who are not pursuing KD. There’s something called collective wisdom. I’m not wed to bringing the team back exactly as it was last season even though we need to value continuity after so many disruptions in a short period of time - trading for Rudy and then trading Towns. I would turn the organization’s focus to dealing Randle and/or Donte (maybe Minott and/or MIller) to acquire a back up center for Rudy or a PG upgrade who can be a bridge to Rob.
I find this report interesting. Toronto apparently won’t give up Poeltl for Durant. Poeltl is a good player, averaging 14.5 points and nearly 10 rebounds last season. But he’s not a great rim protector or defender and he’s not anything close to a cornerstone player. Moreover, at age 30 he has no more remaining upside. Toronto is apparently unwilling to give up their #9 pick in this year’s draft. I’m not sure who else they might be willing to give up for KD. I’ve seen reports the Raptors are shopping RJ Barrett. A recent report suggested they might be willing to part with Scottie Barnes. But I suspect they’d rather package one or both of those two in a package for someone other than KD. If the Suns can get Barrett or Barnes for KD, they should take it.
Meanwhile, the Spurs are apparently unwilling to give up their #2 pick (Harper) or Castle even though those two and Fox all play the same position. I haven’t seen any buzz on whether the Suns are interested in Fox. Of Durant’s three desired destinations, the Spurs seem the least interested in him.
The Rockets are understandably not open to trading Sengun or Thompson for KD. Reports indicate that Houston has offered Jalen Green and the 10th pick in this year’s draft but the Suns are pushing for more, including some combination of Jabari Smith, Tari Eason and/or Reed Sheppard. I can see why the Suns wouldn’t be content with only Green since he plays the same position as their best player, Booker. So I suspect Green’s main value to the Suns is as an asset for another deal this summer or down the road. Reed has a very bad rookie season but in very limited minutes and Houston doesn’t have a PG behind VanVleet on it roster. Houston seems loaded with young talent at the SF position, including Thompson, Smith, Eason and Whitmore. If I were Houston, I’d try to get the Suns to bite on Whitmore but I might be willing to give up Smith or Eason (probably Smith) for KD given the team’s bevy of young talent at the position. Thompson is clearly the star in that group of four young SFs.
Miami is apparently unwilling to give up Ware (and presumably Bam) in a deal. That makes sense from Miami’s perspective, in which case I don’t see anything with Miami that would make sense for the Suns.
As for Minnesota, the most recent report indicated that the Suns are trying to get Minnesota’s #17 pick as part of a deal. Would that be in addition to Dilly? We’ve heard various reports on what the Wolves have offered. One report says we offered Randle, Donte and Dilly. I suspect we’ve offered more - probably oru #31 pick and maybe Minott or Miller. Other reports indicated we’ve offered Rudy and Donte along with either Dilly or TSJ and possible one or both of our picks this year. Rudy makes more sense from the Suns’ perspective because it’s widely known they want a center. Randle makes more sense from the Wolves perspective because we have Naz and given Durant’s defensive limitations it makes sense to keep Rudy. However, trading Randle only works if he’s willing to go to Phoenix because he’d have to agree to a sign-and-trade. And of course, Durant would have to relent and agree to sign a lucrative extension with a team he’d rather not play for.
My prediction:
I continue to believe the Wolves will end up with KD. Based on reports so far, it appears that the Suns were ready to accept the Wolves offer and that the only snag was Durant’s unwillingness to sign an extension. I’m convinced Durant will eventually agree an extension with the Wolves because I don’t think any of the other suitors have the same level of interest in KD as TC does and therefore won’t increase their offers. At some point, KD will face a choice: (1) stay with a losing team he wants to leave on his current one-year deal with a risk of injury that might preclude getting a lucrative contract as a free agent next summer, or (2) sign a two-year extension with the Wolves worth $120 million. How can there be any doubt about the choice KD will make.
If not the Wolves, I think it will be Houston. Apparently, Houston’s newly extended head coach is close to Durant and the Houston organization knows Durant really wants to be there, which means KD’s heart would be in it. Also, Houston can offer a top 10 pick this year and more young talent for a Suns organization that should be focused on a major re-tool if not a full rebuild. Heck, the Suns didn’t even make the play-in tournament this past season and they were swept by the Wolves in the previous season’s first round. The question is whether the Rockets will ultimately agree to part with one of their talented young backup SFs (Smith or Eason) and or PG Reed Sheppard. In my view, the Suns should be focused like a laser on Houston. Green will be a valuable asset either as a player or trade piece and the #10 pick will be valuable as well. The Rockets have the rights to the Suns’ 2027 1st round pick (unprotected). That same year, the Rockets have swap rights with Brooklyn, which will likely garner them a lottery pick. In other words, the Suns should be able to get their own 2027 1st round pick back.
The reality of the moment is that there is an obvious lack of interest in KD around the League, with only at most five teams showing any interest - Wolves, Rockets, Heat, Spurs, Raptors. And except for the Wolves, there’s an obvious lack of enthusiasm among those who are interested. I’m not surprised by the lack of interest or enthusiasm for a 37 year old, largely one-way player with durability questions and a recent history of losing who will consumer around $175 million of a team’s payroll over the next three seasons ($54M next season + a 2-year $120M extension) all the way to just before his 40th birthday.
If I were in TC’s position I’d be aligned with the 25 teams who are not pursuing KD. There’s something called collective wisdom. I’m not wed to bringing the team back exactly as it was last season even though we need to value continuity after so many disruptions in a short period of time - trading for Rudy and then trading Towns. I would turn the organization’s focus to dealing Randle and/or Donte (maybe Minott and/or MIller) to acquire a back up center for Rudy or a PG upgrade who can be a bridge to Rob.
Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
I’ve been trying various Houston deals for Durant with trade machines and I couldn’t come up with a viable bilateral deal. But there’s the following 3-team involving the Nets that makes sense:
Rocket Get: Durant
This makes sense for the Rockets because they’d get a win-now guys they apparently want without giving up any of the young talent they still value. And they wouldn’t have to give up any of their own picks - simply giving back two 1st round picks they got from the Suns previously. They’d still have their own 1st round picks in 2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 and 2031. They have swap rights with the Nets in 2027 (likely lottery pick), and they have rights to the two most favorable 1st round picks among their own, Dallas and Phoenix. So they have a pretty full draft cupboard that allows them to trade a couple picks without depleting their future draft stock.
Suns Get the following:
- Nic Claxton from Nets (meets there need for a center and desire for win-now players)
- Dillon Brooks from Rockets (meeting owners stated desire for toughness and win now players)
- Keon Johnson from Nets (mainly for salary match but a scorer who adds win-now wing depth)
- #10 pick 2025 (addresses desire to build for future)
- Return of 2027 1st round pick (further addresses desire to build for future)
This would be a very nice haul for the Suns under the circumstances. Getting these two 1st round picks back has a lot of value and would have to feel good psychologically for Suns management/ownership. Claxton is a very good center who is almost exactly the same age as Booker. I saw a clip the other day of the Suns’ owner saying he wants to add toughness and competitiveness to the roster. Dillon Brooks fit that interest perfectly. Keon would add depth and youth.
Nets Get:
- Jalen Green (Great fit for Nets’ rebuild as a highly athletic 23 year old who averaged 21PPG last season_
- Future 2nd round picks from Suns or Rockets (Just a little extra enticement for Nets)
The Nets have been in full rebuild mode but going nowhere. They are bereft of young talent. Green would instantly give them a truly elite young talent to build around with their picks over the next couple years. The Nets have four first round picks this month - ##8, 19, 26, 27. They have their own 2026 1st rounder, their own 2027 first rounder subject to Houston’s swap rights, the Knicks 2027 1st, the Sixers 1st (protected 1-8), They have their own 1st rounders in every year after that plus the Knicks unprotected 1st rounders in 2029 and 2031. They also have a ton of future 2nd round picks. Getting a the 23 year old Green would be a great starting piece as they add a ton of talent via the draft, by trading future picks or both. The Nets are clearly years away and Clayton’s age (28) doesn’t match the trajectory of the climb ahead of them as a franchise.
Rocket Get: Durant
This makes sense for the Rockets because they’d get a win-now guys they apparently want without giving up any of the young talent they still value. And they wouldn’t have to give up any of their own picks - simply giving back two 1st round picks they got from the Suns previously. They’d still have their own 1st round picks in 2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 and 2031. They have swap rights with the Nets in 2027 (likely lottery pick), and they have rights to the two most favorable 1st round picks among their own, Dallas and Phoenix. So they have a pretty full draft cupboard that allows them to trade a couple picks without depleting their future draft stock.
Suns Get the following:
- Nic Claxton from Nets (meets there need for a center and desire for win-now players)
- Dillon Brooks from Rockets (meeting owners stated desire for toughness and win now players)
- Keon Johnson from Nets (mainly for salary match but a scorer who adds win-now wing depth)
- #10 pick 2025 (addresses desire to build for future)
- Return of 2027 1st round pick (further addresses desire to build for future)
This would be a very nice haul for the Suns under the circumstances. Getting these two 1st round picks back has a lot of value and would have to feel good psychologically for Suns management/ownership. Claxton is a very good center who is almost exactly the same age as Booker. I saw a clip the other day of the Suns’ owner saying he wants to add toughness and competitiveness to the roster. Dillon Brooks fit that interest perfectly. Keon would add depth and youth.
Nets Get:
- Jalen Green (Great fit for Nets’ rebuild as a highly athletic 23 year old who averaged 21PPG last season_
- Future 2nd round picks from Suns or Rockets (Just a little extra enticement for Nets)
The Nets have been in full rebuild mode but going nowhere. They are bereft of young talent. Green would instantly give them a truly elite young talent to build around with their picks over the next couple years. The Nets have four first round picks this month - ##8, 19, 26, 27. They have their own 2026 1st rounder, their own 2027 first rounder subject to Houston’s swap rights, the Knicks 2027 1st, the Sixers 1st (protected 1-8), They have their own 1st rounders in every year after that plus the Knicks unprotected 1st rounders in 2029 and 2031. They also have a ton of future 2nd round picks. Getting a the 23 year old Green would be a great starting piece as they add a ton of talent via the draft, by trading future picks or both. The Nets are clearly years away and Clayton’s age (28) doesn’t match the trajectory of the climb ahead of them as a franchise.
Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
All the info in this thread tells me all I need to know about TC as our GM. While the wolves made the WCF the last two years there appeared to be a significant gap between them and their opponents. OKC by all accounts are light years ahead of the wolves when assessing current talent, draft picks and most importantly salary structure.
TC in Denver built a championship roster which got them a title a year after he left. What i find most important is that they lost valuable components following that season due to salary structure and have not been the same team since. I see the same thing happening here in Minny. If he pulls off the Durant trade it is very likely that we can compete for one more season before all hell breaks lose financially. Do we expect our new owners to give up significant portions of their ownership to continue to spend recklessly. I don't see that happening, so we need to ask if one more shot at title is worth it to start over as rebuilding squad for the next decade (or more).
When you look at our rotation there is only one player with a bargain deal in NAW. Now they are looking at trading Shannon, Dilly and possibly our pick with Clark only having one year left on his deal. The two biggest reasons to develop through the draft is not having to spend assets to acquire players and getting players on lower salary deals for several years.
We should ask ourselves what happens in two or three years when we literally can't afford to sign anybody to fill in rotation slots. How long before Ant asks to be traded? We have no draft picks to replenish our team.
I understand the rationale behind TC's thinking. How long does he have to deliver a title? He doesn't really care where the wolves are in four or five years. He will be vacationing down on his new yacht while the wolves are back to winning fifteen games per season.
TC in Denver built a championship roster which got them a title a year after he left. What i find most important is that they lost valuable components following that season due to salary structure and have not been the same team since. I see the same thing happening here in Minny. If he pulls off the Durant trade it is very likely that we can compete for one more season before all hell breaks lose financially. Do we expect our new owners to give up significant portions of their ownership to continue to spend recklessly. I don't see that happening, so we need to ask if one more shot at title is worth it to start over as rebuilding squad for the next decade (or more).
When you look at our rotation there is only one player with a bargain deal in NAW. Now they are looking at trading Shannon, Dilly and possibly our pick with Clark only having one year left on his deal. The two biggest reasons to develop through the draft is not having to spend assets to acquire players and getting players on lower salary deals for several years.
We should ask ourselves what happens in two or three years when we literally can't afford to sign anybody to fill in rotation slots. How long before Ant asks to be traded? We have no draft picks to replenish our team.
I understand the rationale behind TC's thinking. How long does he have to deliver a title? He doesn't really care where the wolves are in four or five years. He will be vacationing down on his new yacht while the wolves are back to winning fifteen games per season.
Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
I know everyone has a right to their own opinion and I don’t begrudge anyone expressing theirs … but I think some of us were complaining when the wolves were in a playoffs desert, then complaining when they were barely sniffing the playoffs, and now are complaining because the team has only been to two WCFs in a row, lol
For my way of thinking, the Wolves front office is among the elite in the league and whatever they end up doing or not doing is a lot better than I could do in their situation
For my way of thinking, the Wolves front office is among the elite in the league and whatever they end up doing or not doing is a lot better than I could do in their situation
Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
Glad you are fine with us all expressing our opinion as TC has been reckless as a drunken sailor with the Wolves future assets. I don't see TC having any masterplan other than to go big game hunting at whatever the cost and hope it works out. My opinion is that the playoff wins mean nothing unless you ultimately win a title. Nobody outside a bankrupt franchise celebrates a play-in win or a couple WCF appearance as if they won something big. If its a stepping stone to something bigger, fine, I won't begrudge those who make a big deal of it for now but if it turns out this was the pinnacle of TC's tenure, I will view it as a failure, and perhaps a collossal failure if he cripples a rebuild for many years due to his reckless draft pick spending.
I understand why TC is spending future assets as he will be long gone before all hell breaks loose. If TC trades Dilly and then Ant leaves after the 2029 season when his contract is up, the Spurs will have the Wolves 2030 and 2031 picks when the Wolves might be among the worst teams in the league. That is why I questioned the Dilly trade last year, while some on this board were saying how genius it was for TC to get Dilly. There is a lot riding on Dilly and if we throw him for KD, that tells me the Dilly trade was a mistake and it is a potential disaster that few on this board admitted a year ago.
I understand why TC is spending future assets as he will be long gone before all hell breaks loose. If TC trades Dilly and then Ant leaves after the 2029 season when his contract is up, the Spurs will have the Wolves 2030 and 2031 picks when the Wolves might be among the worst teams in the league. That is why I questioned the Dilly trade last year, while some on this board were saying how genius it was for TC to get Dilly. There is a lot riding on Dilly and if we throw him for KD, that tells me the Dilly trade was a mistake and it is a potential disaster that few on this board admitted a year ago.
Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
Oh sure, life was much simpler when the team was toiling away in mediocrity and all we had to fuss over was which mediocre draft pick the mediocre front office was going to select that would eventually flame out so that the team could continue to toil away in mediocrity… rather, rinse, repeat. It was a simpler time
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Coolbreeze44
- Posts: 13164
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Re: Kevin Durant Rumors
Nothin has happened yet guys. I'm pretty sure if something does, it will not be along the lines of what we are rumored to have offered. TC doesn't play his cards in the public eye. I'm anxious to see how we improve, but I don't think we are going to gut our youth for KD.