Naz is back!

[Lipoli390]

Kek, some fairly good arguments here by some of the guys as to why the Naz deal is good for us, but I still don't know if I'm convinced. i know your first impression was the same as mine...seems like an overpay. Have you changed your stance?

Obviously I am probably the lowest on the board when it comes to Naz but I do think he is a good player and from a fan perspective I am excited that he is back. I am really torn on the contract, he will be the 3rd highest off the bench player in the NBA next year (Middleton and Rozier) and only 1 of 5 bench players to make over 20 million a year (Give or take 2 both ways).

Things I like about the extension
- Naz is still young, like we talk about TSJ upside on this board and TSJ is less than a year younger than Naz
- We didn't just flat out lose the asset, Naz would of just left without a sign and trade the wolves would be in a weird long term position
- We can use Naz and Rudy Contract to be able to acquire any player in the NBA via trade salary wise. That was a big hiccup in the potential KD trade that they had to add so many players to make the money work, those 2 players will be able to get us to any player in the NBA next season
- Naz is still a very good 3 point shooter and can create off the dribble.
- We have no player who will be up for a big pay raise for at least 3 years. We also don't know if people like Rob and TSJ will deserve a huge pay raise and I doubt DDV gets a 15 million a year pay increase. So internally our cap is not going to see a gigantic worry of losing a player because of this contract. Like for example Rudy will be off the books when/if Rob or TSJ need a huge pay raise.

Things I do not like about the extension
- Like I said above Wolves are one of 4 teams paying a bench player over 20 million a year and probably the only team that has legit title aspirations doing so. (Clippers and Powell might be the exception)
- Naz is sort of stuck at the 4. He is a terrible small ball five and the sample size of him playing the 3 is limited (Numbers are good in small sample size), I just personally like positional flexibility in my high paid players. Also I think he blocks Jaden playing more 4 what I think currently is his best position
-I don't think Naz has a ton of value around the league, a stretch 4, with rebounding faults, defensive faults, foul prone and is not a playmaker for others I think does not have gigantic value.
- Can Naz ried have a good playoff series one time. He has played in 3 playoff seasons and he usually shows up for 1 game a series. He was trash for the third season in a row in the playoffs. It worries me a ton that he consistently has no showed when it matters and paying a guy top 75 contract in the NBA I would like that guy to be a non negative in the playoffs.
- Weird log jam at the 4 and 5 positions, I would say 8 of our 14 players best position is a the 4 or 5 (Possibly 9 if TSJ is a good 4). Just a weird roster construction.



Overall I think it is an overpay but I am not pissed about it, I will get upset though if Naz shows no improvement going forward, he is no longer this cheap luxury piece, Naz now makes top 75 money in the league we need him to consistently bring value to winning. No more excuses.

Sorry to Tim having to deal with my Naz is in and the other team is scoring every possession at the rim rants in the GDT.

Very good summary, Kek. I think I'm exactly where you are. My happiness about keeping Naz on the team is much greater than my questioning of whether we over paid or not. And I probably blindly trust TC almost as much as anyone on this board, so who am I to question whether he paid too much or not. Glad he's back.

You guys have landed in a good place. I’ve had to reconcile myself to the boat load of assets we gave up for Rudy and I’m glad he’s here. I remain convinced that Naz’s contract is not an overpay - not even close. But only time will tell.

[AussieWolf3]

Some blind stats

Pts/Reb/Ast

14.7/4.8/3.2--- 22.8M this year
17.0/4/1.4--- 23.3M
22.2/5.6/2.0---23.4M
22.2/3.9/4.4--- 24.4M

Naz as a starter this year (numbers aren't exact)

21.1/10.3/3.6/1.6

Wanna guess the name on those players?

If the plan is for Naz to start than I think it's worth it. I understand it a lot less if they bring Randle back with an extension

If we are extending Randle, it needs to be a contract that can be moved at any time. It can't be an unmovable contract. Losing Randle for nothing while it would give us a good chance to avoid the tax aprons entirely, you wouldn't be able to get that salary slot back for future trades, unless you gave NAW a huge contract that might not be movable. Having Randle at 30 million is easier to add up in a Giannis, Fox, Garland, type trade in future years.

Fair point Rap, i do like that they are securing assets to gain better leverage in a trade and you bring up a good point about that.

I'd like to see them make moves that build a roster more suited to Ant, Jaden and Naz which I don't think the combination of Rudy and Julius provide

[Q-is-here]

Kek, some fairly good arguments here by some of the guys as to why the Naz deal is good for us, but I still don't know if I'm convinced. i know your first impression was the same as mine...seems like an overpay. Have you changed your stance?

Obviously I am probably the lowest on the board when it comes to Naz but I do think he is a good player and from a fan perspective I am excited that he is back. I am really torn on the contract, he will be the 3rd highest off the bench player in the NBA next year (Middleton and Rozier) and only 1 of 5 bench players to make over 20 million a year (Give or take 2 both ways).

Things I like about the extension
- Naz is still young, like we talk about TSJ upside on this board and TSJ is less than a year younger than Naz
- We didn't just flat out lose the asset, Naz would of just left without a sign and trade the wolves would be in a weird long term position
- We can use Naz and Rudy Contract to be able to acquire any player in the NBA via trade salary wise. That was a big hiccup in the potential KD trade that they had to add so many players to make the money work, those 2 players will be able to get us to any player in the NBA next season
- Naz is still a very good 3 point shooter and can create off the dribble.
- We have no player who will be up for a big pay raise for at least 3 years. We also don't know if people like Rob and TSJ will deserve a huge pay raise and I doubt DDV gets a 15 million a year pay increase. So internally our cap is not going to see a gigantic worry of losing a player because of this contract. Like for example Rudy will be off the books when/if Rob or TSJ need a huge pay raise.

Things I do not like about the extension
- Like I said above Wolves are one of 4 teams paying a bench player over 20 million a year and probably the only team that has legit title aspirations doing so. (Clippers and Powell might be the exception)
- Naz is sort of stuck at the 4. He is a terrible small ball five and the sample size of him playing the 3 is limited (Numbers are good in small sample size), I just personally like positional flexibility in my high paid players. Also I think he blocks Jaden playing more 4 what I think currently is his best position
-I don't think Naz has a ton of value around the league, a stretch 4, with rebounding faults, defensive faults, foul prone and is not a playmaker for others I think does not have gigantic value.
- Can Naz ried have a good playoff series one time. He has played in 3 playoff seasons and he usually shows up for 1 game a series. He was trash for the third season in a row in the playoffs. It worries me a ton that he consistently has no showed when it matters and paying a guy top 75 contract in the NBA I would like that guy to be a non negative in the playoffs.
- Weird log jam at the 4 and 5 positions, I would say 8 of our 14 players best position is a the 4 or 5 (Possibly 9 if TSJ is a good 4). Just a weird roster construction.



Overall I think it is an overpay but I am not pissed about it, I will get upset though if Naz shows no improvement going forward, he is no longer this cheap luxury piece, Naz now makes top 75 money in the league we need him to consistently bring value to winning. No more excuses.

Sorry to Tim having to deal with my Naz is in and the other team is scoring every possession at the rim rants in the GDT.

Good summary Kek.

Naz has the physical tools to be a decent defensive Center given his wingspan and what I think are pretty strong (and quick) hands.

But he just always seems to be a hair or two off with his positioning and angles. The result is a tricky-tack whistle or him having to just give up a bucket due to a certain reflexive passivity that occurs after a couple weak, yet deserved, fouls.

Not sure how defensive positioning and instincts can be developed, but hopefully Connelly made it clear we need more from him on that end.

[Lipoli390]

Kek, some fairly good arguments here by some of the guys as to why the Naz deal is good for us, but I still don't know if I'm convinced. i know your first impression was the same as mine...seems like an overpay. Have you changed your stance?

Obviously I am probably the lowest on the board when it comes to Naz but I do think he is a good player and from a fan perspective I am excited that he is back. I am really torn on the contract, he will be the 3rd highest off the bench player in the NBA next year (Middleton and Rozier) and only 1 of 5 bench players to make over 20 million a year (Give or take 2 both ways).

Things I like about the extension
- Naz is still young, like we talk about TSJ upside on this board and TSJ is less than a year younger than Naz
- We didn't just flat out lose the asset, Naz would of just left without a sign and trade the wolves would be in a weird long term position
- We can use Naz and Rudy Contract to be able to acquire any player in the NBA via trade salary wise. That was a big hiccup in the potential KD trade that they had to add so many players to make the money work, those 2 players will be able to get us to any player in the NBA next season
- Naz is still a very good 3 point shooter and can create off the dribble.
- We have no player who will be up for a big pay raise for at least 3 years. We also don't know if people like Rob and TSJ will deserve a huge pay raise and I doubt DDV gets a 15 million a year pay increase. So internally our cap is not going to see a gigantic worry of losing a player because of this contract. Like for example Rudy will be off the books when/if Rob or TSJ need a huge pay raise.

Things I do not like about the extension
- Like I said above Wolves are one of 4 teams paying a bench player over 20 million a year and probably the only team that has legit title aspirations doing so. (Clippers and Powell might be the exception)
- Naz is sort of stuck at the 4. He is a terrible small ball five and the sample size of him playing the 3 is limited (Numbers are good in small sample size), I just personally like positional flexibility in my high paid players. Also I think he blocks Jaden playing more 4 what I think currently is his best position
-I don't think Naz has a ton of value around the league, a stretch 4, with rebounding faults, defensive faults, foul prone and is not a playmaker for others I think does not have gigantic value.
- Can Naz ried have a good playoff series one time. He has played in 3 playoff seasons and he usually shows up for 1 game a series. He was trash for the third season in a row in the playoffs. It worries me a ton that he consistently has no showed when it matters and paying a guy top 75 contract in the NBA I would like that guy to be a non negative in the playoffs.
- Weird log jam at the 4 and 5 positions, I would say 8 of our 14 players best position is a the 4 or 5 (Possibly 9 if TSJ is a good 4). Just a weird roster construction.



Overall I think it is an overpay but I am not pissed about it, I will get upset though if Naz shows no improvement going forward, he is no longer this cheap luxury piece, Naz now makes top 75 money in the league we need him to consistently bring value to winning. No more excuses.

Sorry to Tim having to deal with my Naz is in and the other team is scoring every possession at the rim rants in the GDT.

Good summary Kek.

Naz has the physical tools to be a decent defensive Center given his wingspan and what I think are pretty strong (and quick) hands.

But he just always seems to be a hair or two off with his positioning and angles. The result is a tricky-tack whistle or him having to just give up a bucket due to a certain reflexive passivity that occurs after a couple weak, yet deserved, fouls.

Not sure how defensive positioning and instincts can be developed, but hopefully Connelly made it clear we need more from him on that end.

Even KAT improved defensively in spite of very similar defensive weaknesses.

[D-Loser25]

And yet OKC just signed Jaylin Williams for 3/24. He doesn’t play nearly as many minutes as Naz, but you can argue that he’s in the same tier of player (if you take off your Homer glasses and quit paying a premium for “popularity “). He gets basically the same number of rebounds in significantly less minutes and he’s a better 3 point shooter than Naz (this is Naz supposed strength)

Sure, I’d still prefer Naz slightly, but how do you expect to compete with a team when you’re pay 25/year and they’re paying 8/year, for similar players?

If you wanna come back and say Naz is way better, that’s fine, but I’d say you’re dreaming. Who was the better player in the WCF? Naz has disappeared for 3 playoff years in a row. He is exactly the opposite of Jaden. He melts when it matters most. But we gave him a huge contract because he is… popular. What a joke

[Monster]

And yet OKC just signed Jaylin Williams for 3/24. He doesn’t play nearly as many minutes as Naz, but you can argue that he’s in the same tier of player (if you take off your Homer glasses and quit paying a premium for “popularity “). He gets basically the same number of rebounds in significantly less minutes and he’s a better 3 point shooter than Naz (this is Naz supposed strength)

Sure, I’d still prefer Naz slightly, but how do you expect to compete with a team when you’re pay 25/year and they’re paying 8/year, for similar players?

If you wanna come back and say Naz is way better, that’s fine, but I’d say you’re dreaming. Who was the better player in the WCF? Naz has disappeared for 3 playoff years in a row. He is exactly the opposite of Jaden. He melts when it matters most. But we gave him a huge contract because he is… popular. What a joke

I'll point out that OKC declined an option of 2.1 million this year to give him a raise. So this deal could be looked at more of a 2 year 22 million extension than a deal for 8 million a year. It's also his first deal off a rookie contract and those tend to be lower than the one Naz just signed. It's a nice deal for Williams though.

Williams played 23 total mins in the WCF.

[Phenom]

And yet OKC just signed Jaylin Williams for 3/24. He doesn’t play nearly as many minutes as Naz, but you can argue that he’s in the same tier of player (if you take off your Homer glasses and quit paying a premium for “popularity “). He gets basically the same number of rebounds in significantly less minutes and he’s a better 3 point shooter than Naz (this is Naz supposed strength)

Sure, I’d still prefer Naz slightly, but how do you expect to compete with a team when you’re pay 25/year and they’re paying 8/year, for similar players?

If you wanna come back and say Naz is way better, that’s fine, but I’d say you’re dreaming. Who was the better player in the WCF? Naz has disappeared for 3 playoff years in a row. He is exactly the opposite of Jaden. He melts when it matters most. But we gave him a huge contract because he is… popular. What a joke

Is Jaylin Williams scalable to Naz? They just drafted Sorber over the top of him.

[AussieWolf3]

And yet OKC just signed Jaylin Williams for 3/24. He doesn’t play nearly as many minutes as Naz, but you can argue that he’s in the same tier of player (if you take off your Homer glasses and quit paying a premium for “popularity “). He gets basically the same number of rebounds in significantly less minutes and he’s a better 3 point shooter than Naz (this is Naz supposed strength)

Sure, I’d still prefer Naz slightly, but how do you expect to compete with a team when you’re pay 25/year and they’re paying 8/year, for similar players?

If you wanna come back and say Naz is way better, that’s fine, but I’d say you’re dreaming. Who was the better player in the WCF? Naz has disappeared for 3 playoff years in a row. He is exactly the opposite of Jaden. He melts when it matters most. But we gave him a huge contract because he is… popular. What a joke

Taking issue with the extension of Naz is a perfectly reasonable position

This take...? Is completely unhinged. Similar players?! Better 3 point shooter?

Jaylin played the 10th most minutes on the thunder in the regular season and 11th in the postseason, Naz was 5th. Yeah he really swung things for them on their championship run

Are you really taking his 1 percentage point superiority in 3 point shooting as evidence that Jaylin is better 3 point shooter? He shot 3.3 attempts a game to Naz's 5.8. What's Jaylin range, cause naz can shoot from basically anywhere? Naz has shown that he can be a movement shooter, has Jaylin?
Naz create his own shot to some extent (will need to improve) can Jaylin?

The deal is what it is, I don't consider it an overpay but I am concerned about Naz has a defender in the playoffs, mostly because he fouls too much. He also has just generally disappointed in the playoffs.
He is also still young enough that he can improve, something he has done every year. And perhaps with a solidified paycheck, he is able to establish a more clearly defined role on the team because he has been asked to do a lot, and good portion of that isn't best suited to his strengths.

Yall really need to separate the last thing you saw from your overall evaluation. Naz was a big disappointment against the Thunder, and was also a winning player this year. Both things can be true

[D-Loser25]

And yet OKC just signed Jaylin Williams for 3/24. He doesn’t play nearly as many minutes as Naz, but you can argue that he’s in the same tier of player (if you take off your Homer glasses and quit paying a premium for “popularity “). He gets basically the same number of rebounds in significantly less minutes and he’s a better 3 point shooter than Naz (this is Naz supposed strength)

Sure, I’d still prefer Naz slightly, but how do you expect to compete with a team when you’re pay 25/year and they’re paying 8/year, for similar players?

If you wanna come back and say Naz is way better, that’s fine, but I’d say you’re dreaming. Who was the better player in the WCF? Naz has disappeared for 3 playoff years in a row. He is exactly the opposite of Jaden. He melts when it matters most. But we gave him a huge contract because he is… popular. What a joke

Taking issue with the extension of Naz is a perfectly reasonable position

This take...? Is completely unhinged. Similar players?! Better 3 point shooter?

Jaylin played the 10th most minutes on the thunder in the regular season and 11th in the postseason, Naz was 5th. Yeah he really swung things for them on their championship run

Are you really taking his 1 percentage point superiority in 3 point shooting as evidence that Jaylin is better 3 point shooter? He shot 3.3 attempts a game to Naz's 5.8. What's Jaylin range, cause naz can shoot from basically anywhere? Naz has shown that he can be a movement shooter, has Jaylin?
Naz create his own shot to some extent (will need to improve) can Jaylin?

The deal is what it is, I don't consider it an overpay but I am concerned about Naz has a defender in the playoffs, mostly because he fouls too much. He also has just generally disappointed in the playoffs.
He is also still young enough that he can improve, something he has done every year. And perhaps with a solidified paycheck, he is able to establish a more clearly defined role on the team because he has been asked to do a lot, and good portion of that isn't best suited to his strengths.

Yall really need to separate the last thing you saw from your overall evaluation. Naz was a big disappointment against the Thunder, and was also a winning player this year. Both things can be true

Yeah, I get that my comparison is a little outlandish, but my point is that I’m really not as impressed as most people with Naz whole body of work. Naz has been given a pretty good opportunity, that a guy like Jaylin hasn’t necessarily been given because of OKC depth. Naz is a 4 and only a 4, so no positional flexibility, to go with being a weak defender who also chokes on the offensive end when it matters most (3 years in a row now)

If I were the GM I’d give him a number and if it’s rejected, I’d find a way to replace his production at half the price. I mean you’ve got guys like Jaden and Shannon who could both potentially play some 4 and now with Randle back, you’re calling me unhinged because I don’t want to pay a very flawed player 25 mil per year lol. Ok dude.

[D-Loser25]

One dimensional power forwards who aren’t even elite at their one dimension are dime a dozen, and our GM just massively overpaid for one because he’s too lazy to find better solutions. Now with Randle back, this looks even worse. I’ll have to read more about Randle’s deal, but not exactly a chess move giving 25 mil to a bench player TC