Wolves PG Position

[Lipoli390]

We’ve had a lot of discussion about the Wolves PG situation in various free agent threads but I thought I’d start a thread devoted solely to the Wolves PG situation going into next season.

We’ve seen a lot of concern expressed on this board about the PG position. The concern boils down to the notion that Mike Conley is too old and Dilly is too young. I’ll start by saying I understand the concern but I don’t share it. I’m all in on moving forward with our two current PGs and having Dilly step in as our starting PG playing 25-35 minutes per game. There will be mistakes and growing pains but that will be true whenever he starts playing major minutes. So if we’re never going to play him because of mistakes then we never should have drafted him. If we’re not going to play him because of his size then we never should have drafted him. They certainly knew his height and weight when they drafted him. The do have access to the same websites I use to see combine measurements, don’t they?

So I’m not buying the too young or too slight excuses for not playing Rob and I won’t accept concern about him making mistakes as a reason to keep him glued to the bench in favor of the 38 year old Mike Conley. If our executives and coaches don’t think Rob is ready yet, they should have traded Conley for Tyus or Schroeder.

But should we put our Tyus Jones dreams to bed for good? We received a $7M trade exception from the Hawks for NAW. And wouldn’t you know it, Tyus signed with Orlando for exactly $7M. Hmm. Just saying…

[Monster]

I think most people are plenty willing to let Dillingham have his shot at playing legit minutes I think the bigger concern is Conley and after his drop off last year I think that's fair. Last season we had NAW as PG option in addition to Donte. This year we have one less option. It feels like if Conley falls of a cliff or gets hurt we are left with Dillingham and and Donte plus Ingles playing somewhere as a playmaker and that's it at PG. That doesn't feel like a lot even if Edward's takes another step forward innthatvregard. I've suggested Clark might have more ability to help cover PG than most would suspect but it still seems like it makes sense to add some kind of PG or smart ball handling guard to the roster. It could even be another young PG like on a 2-way.

Watching some Iowa G-league highlights Newton is a fairly big PG that sure looks like he can play both guard positions physically. I'm not saying he is the answer to anything but his size does stand out. It will be interesting to see if he ends up playing in summer league and we can see how he does. One positive about him is he can stay a 2-way player for 2 more years. When they let go of Nix probably part of why they were willing to do that is he would have to have been retained with an actual NBA contract starting this year. Some will say these types of things are getting too far off into the weeds but every year we see 2-way guys having some legit contributions. Clark was one of those guys last year for the Wolves and McLaughlin was a solid contributor on a 2-way deal for what 3 seasons? I wonder if Newton might be a guy that takes a step forward after a season being a pro like McLaughlin did. It woukd be nice to hit on another guy that is worth having out on the court and does some good things.

[FNG]

I'm in the club that thinks Rob needs to play significant minutes this season and that picking up a PG in free agency is not a huge need. And I would love it if he showed our coaches enough in summer league, practice, and preseason to take the starting job away from Mike. But I'm skeptical that will happen. Just like last year, the Wolves are going to come into this season "all in", and that means they are going to start games and finish games with the five guys they think give them the best chance. Again, I hope that's Rob. But at least at the beginning of the season, I think it will be Mike.

There is a mantra on this board that is accepted as a truism that I think is vastly overstated if not completely wrong...that Mike's game dropped off considerably last season. I thought his defense and court leadership were very good last season, and any drop off was due to two main factors: 1) he played 6 fewer minutes per game than his career average and 4 fewer than the prior year, and 2) an increased deference to Ant and Ju as facilitators and scorers. Still, his per 36 minutes were very good: 12/3.7/6.5 with only 1.5 assists while shooting 41% on treys...what's not to like? His assists per 36 were exactly at his career average (but with fewer TOs!) and his rebounds per 36 were higher. His win shares per 48 were better than his career average. Only his scoring per 36 was down from his career average, but I think we all know that was by design...we have two productive scorers who need their shots, plus Jaden who continues to improve his scoring every year. Mike played way more off ball...his role became much less to facilitate the offense, but more to hit the open three when Ju and Ant got him the ball. And he did that at a percentage higher than his very good career average. All this to say I'm not buying the conventional wisdom expressed here about Mike. I agree that he started poorly, and he attributed that to a sore wrist that didn't allow him to play ball all summer. But despite the slow start, he finished the season with the third best on/off stats for the season. And since we have championship aspirations, how he played in the playoffs is even more important. And the Wolves were an amazing 10.9 points per 100 when Mike was on the court compared to off!

All this to say that I don't see PG as our problem. All 38 year olds are not created equal, and Mike did not look old to me on the court...and his stats were very good. And while we all know Rob is still somewhat of an unknown, I have some confidence that he is going to blossom in his sophomore year after a year of getting used to the NBA game. And if he doesn't, Finchy will have to turn to Ant and Ju as de facto options to facilitate the offense when Mike sits much like last year. We're going to be fine.

[Q-is-here]

I'm in the club that thinks Rob needs to play significant minutes this season and that picking up a PG in free agency is not a huge need. And I would love it if he showed our coaches enough in summer league, practice, and preseason to take the starting job away from Mike. But I'm skeptical that will happen. Just like last year, the Wolves are going to come into this season "all in", and that means they are going to start games and finish games with the five guys they think give them the best chance. Again, I hope that's Rob. But at least at the beginning of the season, I think it will be Mike.

There is a mantra on this board that is accepted as a truism that I think is vastly overstated if not completely wrong...that Mike's game dropped off considerably last season. I thought his defense and court leadership were very good last season, and any drop off was due to two main factors: 1) he played 6 fewer minutes per game than his career average and 4 fewer than the prior year, and 2) an increased deference to Ant and Ju as facilitators and scorers. Still, his per 36 minutes were very good: 12/3.7/6.5 with only 1.5 assists while shooting 41% on treys...what's not to like? His assists per 36 were exactly at his career average (but with fewer TOs!) and his rebounds per 36 were higher. His win shares per 48 were better than his career average. Only his scoring per 36 was down from his career average, but I think we all know that was by design...we have two productive scorers who need their shots, plus Jaden who continues to improve his scoring every year. Mike played way more off ball...his role became much less to facilitate the offense, but more to hit the open three when Ju and Ant got him the ball. And he did that at a percentage higher than his very good career average. All this to say I'm not buying the conventional wisdom expressed here about Mike. I agree that he started poorly, and he attributed that to a sore wrist that didn't allow him to play ball all summer. But despite the slow start, he finished the season with the third best on/off stats for the season. And since we have championship aspirations, how he played in the playoffs is even more important. And the Wolves were an amazing 10.9 points per 100 when Mike was on the court compared to off!

All this to say that I don't see PG as our problem. All 38 year olds are not created equal, and Mike did not look old to me on the court...and his stats were very good. And while we all know Rob is still somewhat of an unknown, I have some confidence that he is going to blossom in his sophomore year after a year of getting used to the NBA game. And if he doesn't, Finchy will have to turn to Ant and Ju as de facto options to facilitate the offense when Mike sits much like last year. We're going to be fine.

FNG, Conley is for sure not an addition-by-subtraction case because, as you said, he is still a very competent NBA player that can run an offense and hold his own on defense. The problem is that we need more dynamism from the position and that's where he gives us almost nothing and will only get worse.

Mike is a very good 3-point shooter and that has been critical next to Ant. But what he doesn't offer is second-side creation that can punish a defense for overloading on Ant and that's how this offense takes the next step. Go look at his 2-point percentage in the regular season and playoffs. It's absolutely putrid because he has almost completely lost his ability to break down a defense and hit shots and make plays while on the move. Even his floater has largely abandoned him.

Enter Rob Dillingham.....He has the requisite skill set to be another creator on the floor in addition to Ant (and Randle), but can we envision him as a starting PG on a Finals team as soon as next season? Probably not. May be in the future. Or may be never. We just don't know yet.

Of course Randle was technically our second-most prolific shot maker and creator last season and through the first two rounds of the playoffs, but then that kind of fell apart against OKC and, boy, we sure could have used another guard with better handles than Julius to help out Ant.

[Q-is-here]

I think most people are plenty willing to let Dillingham have his shot at playing legit minutes I think the bigger concern is Conley and after his drop off last year I think that's fair. Last season we had NAW as PG option in addition to Donte. This year we have one less option. It feels like if Conley falls of a cliff or gets hurt we are left with Dillingham and and Donte plus Ingles playing somewhere as a playmaker and that's it at PG. That doesn't feel like a lot even if Edward's takes another step forward innthatvregard. I've suggested Clark might have more ability to help cover PG than most would suspect but it still seems like it makes sense to add some kind of PG or smart ball handling guard to the roster. It could even be another young PG like on a 2-way.

Watching some Iowa G-league highlights Newton is a fairly big PG that sure looks like he can play both guard positions physically. I'm not saying he is the answer to anything but his size does stand out. It will be interesting to see if he ends up playing in summer league and we can see how he does. One positive about him is he can stay a 2-way player for 2 more years. When they let go of Nix probably part of why they were willing to do that is he would have to have been retained with an actual NBA contract starting this year. Some will say these types of things are getting too far off into the weeds but every year we see 2-way guys having some legit contributions. Clark was one of those guys last year for the Wolves and McLaughlin was a solid contributor on a 2-way deal for what 3 seasons? I wonder if Newton might be a guy that takes a step forward after a season being a pro like McLaughlin did. It woukd be nice to hit on another guy that is worth having out on the court and does some good things.

Monster, You mention it above and I've seen other folks bring this up from time to time since we drafted Clark. I think we can all agree his natural position isn't PG, but I'd take it a step further and say that he's not even a secondary ball handler like NAW or DDV are. I watched a bunch of his G-League games and he spent 90-95% of his possessions off the ball. And there is a reason he only had 8 turnovers - albeit very impressive still - in his 500+ minutes with the big league Wolves. It's because he was never tasked with initiating the offense.

This is why it's so important we have actual point guards this season playing the position of point guard on the floor. It will allow others do what they do best. DDV can be the movement shooter he's meant to be. Clark can be the 3 & D point of attack defender he's meant to be. We can be less reliant on Julius when the matchups don't work and he's having one of his off nights. Etc., etc.

[Q-is-here]

We’ve had a lot of discussion about the Wolves PG situation in various free agent threads but I thought I’d start a thread devoted solely to the Wolves PG situation going into next season.

We’ve seen a lot of concern expressed on this board about the PG position. The concern boils down to the notion that Mike Conley is too old and Dilly is too young. I’ll start by saying I understand the concern but I don’t share it. I’m all in on moving forward with our two current PGs and having Dilly step in as our starting PG playing 25-35 minutes per game. There will be mistakes and growing pains but that will be true whenever he starts playing major minutes. So if we’re never going to play him because of mistakes then we never should have drafted him. If we’re not going to play him because of his size then we never should have drafted him. They certainly knew his height and weight when they drafted him. The do have access to the same websites I use to see combine measurements, don’t they?

So I’m not buying the too young or too slight excuses for not playing Rob and I won’t accept concern about him making mistakes as a reason to keep him glued to the bench in favor of the 38 year old Mike Conley. If our executives and coaches don’t think Rob is ready yet, they should have traded Conley for Tyus or Schroeder.

But should we put our Tyus Jones dreams to bed for good? We received a $7M trade exception from the Hawks for NAW. And wouldn’t you know it, Tyus signed with Orlando for exactly $7M. Hmm. Just saying…

I think we all agree that Dilly needs to play this season. The question is how much. Is he a 25+ MPG starter or a 15-20 MPG backup whose minutes flex based on his performance.

The bigger issue to me is Mike Conley and what happens when or if his production falls off or he gets hurt. Then we have nothing other than Rob.

That's why I'd prefer the Wolves get ahead of it and just have Mike as a 3rd string insurance policy player/coach or if he and his agent or unhappy with that then thank him for his service and trade him.

[FNG]

I'm in the club that thinks Rob needs to play significant minutes this season and that picking up a PG in free agency is not a huge need. And I would love it if he showed our coaches enough in summer league, practice, and preseason to take the starting job away from Mike. But I'm skeptical that will happen. Just like last year, the Wolves are going to come into this season "all in", and that means they are going to start games and finish games with the five guys they think give them the best chance. Again, I hope that's Rob. But at least at the beginning of the season, I think it will be Mike.

There is a mantra on this board that is accepted as a truism that I think is vastly overstated if not completely wrong...that Mike's game dropped off considerably last season. I thought his defense and court leadership were very good last season, and any drop off was due to two main factors: 1) he played 6 fewer minutes per game than his career average and 4 fewer than the prior year, and 2) an increased deference to Ant and Ju as facilitators and scorers. Still, his per 36 minutes were very good: 12/3.7/6.5 with only 1.5 assists while shooting 41% on treys...what's not to like? His assists per 36 were exactly at his career average (but with fewer TOs!) and his rebounds per 36 were higher. His win shares per 48 were better than his career average. Only his scoring per 36 was down from his career average, but I think we all know that was by design...we have two productive scorers who need their shots, plus Jaden who continues to improve his scoring every year. Mike played way more off ball...his role became much less to facilitate the offense, but more to hit the open three when Ju and Ant got him the ball. And he did that at a percentage higher than his very good career average. All this to say I'm not buying the conventional wisdom expressed here about Mike. I agree that he started poorly, and he attributed that to a sore wrist that didn't allow him to play ball all summer. But despite the slow start, he finished the season with the third best on/off stats for the season. And since we have championship aspirations, how he played in the playoffs is even more important. And the Wolves were an amazing 10.9 points per 100 when Mike was on the court compared to off!

All this to say that I don't see PG as our problem. All 38 year olds are not created equal, and Mike did not look old to me on the court...and his stats were very good. And while we all know Rob is still somewhat of an unknown, I have some confidence that he is going to blossom in his sophomore year after a year of getting used to the NBA game. And if he doesn't, Finchy will have to turn to Ant and Ju as de facto options to facilitate the offense when Mike sits much like last year. We're going to be fine.

FNG, Conley is for sure not an addition-by-subtraction case because, as you said, he is still a very competent NBA player that can run an offense and hold his own on defense. The problem is that we need more dynamism from the position and that's where he gives us almost nothing and will only get worse.

Mike is a very good 3-point shooter and that has been critical next to Ant. But what he doesn't offer is second-side creation that can punish a defense for overloading on Ant and that's how this offense takes the next step. Go look at his 2-point percentage in the regular season and playoffs. It's absolutely putrid because he has almost completely lost his ability to break down a defense and hit shots and make plays while on the move. Even his floater has largely abandoned him.

Enter Rob Dillingham.....He has the requisite skill set to be another creator on the floor in addition to Ant (and Randle), but can we envision him as a starting PG on a Finals team as soon as next season? Probably not. May be in the future. Or may be never. We just don't know yet.

Of course Randle was technically our second-most prolific shot maker and creator last season and through the first two rounds of the playoffs, but then that kind of fell apart against OKC and, boy, we sure could have used another guard with better handles than Julius to help out Ant.

Yeah, Conley's 2-point percentage was horrible last season...38% was a full 10 percentage point lower than the prior season! Fortunately 2-point shots are not the role Finchy has carved out for him...his 2.2 attempts per game were 5 fewer than his career average, while he attempted more treys than his career average. And while no longer being a threat other than beyond the arc, he still was able to dole out 6.5 assists per 36...right at his career average. Mike needs to be no more than our 4th option on offense, and when Rudy is out, our 5th. Our future is dependent on the development of Ant and Jaden, and currently we are also dependent upon Ju getting his buckets, so Mike knows his scoring needs to be limited to wide-open threes...which he knocks down well above the league average.

Now to your point I expect Finchy to employ Rob differently if he determines he is ready. I expect him to be much more ball dominant than Mike, allowing Ant to flourish more off ball where he is very effective. I think we are going to see two very different offensive styles depending on whether Rob or Mike is out there, and I'm excited to see how it plays out.

[FNG]

And further to your point, Q, I think a PG who can create on his own like Rob appears to be able to do could really unlock the guys on the court with him. Mike doesn't break down the defense and feed his teammates for easy looks, but Rob oculd very well be the kind of PG who does just that. Let's hope he works out.

[Monster]

I think most people are plenty willing to let Dillingham have his shot at playing legit minutes I think the bigger concern is Conley and after his drop off last year I think that's fair. Last season we had NAW as PG option in addition to Donte. This year we have one less option. It feels like if Conley falls of a cliff or gets hurt we are left with Dillingham and and Donte plus Ingles playing somewhere as a playmaker and that's it at PG. That doesn't feel like a lot even if Edward's takes another step forward innthatvregard. I've suggested Clark might have more ability to help cover PG than most would suspect but it still seems like it makes sense to add some kind of PG or smart ball handling guard to the roster. It could even be another young PG like on a 2-way.

Watching some Iowa G-league highlights Newton is a fairly big PG that sure looks like he can play both guard positions physically. I'm not saying he is the answer to anything but his size does stand out. It will be interesting to see if he ends up playing in summer league and we can see how he does. One positive about him is he can stay a 2-way player for 2 more years. When they let go of Nix probably part of why they were willing to do that is he would have to have been retained with an actual NBA contract starting this year. Some will say these types of things are getting too far off into the weeds but every year we see 2-way guys having some legit contributions. Clark was one of those guys last year for the Wolves and McLaughlin was a solid contributor on a 2-way deal for what 3 seasons? I wonder if Newton might be a guy that takes a step forward after a season being a pro like McLaughlin did. It woukd be nice to hit on another guy that is worth having out on the court and does some good things.

Monster, You mention it above and I've seen other folks bring this up from time to time since we drafted Clark. I think we can all agree his natural position isn't PG, but I'd take it a step further and say that he's not even a secondary ball handler like NAW or DDV are. I watched a bunch of his G-League games and he spent 90-95% of his possessions off the ball. And there is a reason he only had 8 turnovers - albeit very impressive still - in his 500+ minutes with the big league Wolves. It's because he was never tasked with initiating the offense.

This is why it's so important we have actual point guards this season playing the position of point guard on the floor. It will allow others do what they do best. DDV can be the movement shooter he's meant to be. Clark can be the 3 & D point of attack defender he's meant to be. We can be less reliant on Julius when the matchups don't work and he's having one of his off nights. Etc., etc.

Thanks for sharing your observations of Clark in Iowa. I definitely will temper my expectations but I won't completely give up on Clark being able to do more than be a Robert Covington type player on offense. Clark played in Sumner league and then his time in Iowa was his next step to playing competitive basketball for the first time in well over a year. I'd just want him to do his thing not have him look to do a whole lot. It will be interesting to see if they maybe playing him a couple games in SL and see if he can do some more scoring in that arena. We will see what that roster looks like. Obviously the real key to Clark is if his 3 point shooting can be acceptable. I'll settle for him being good enough there in addition to his smart cutting and seemingly being at the right place and time. Anything else is a bonus but I do think there is still a chance for him to do a little more.

[rapsuperstar31]

I think most people are plenty willing to let Dillingham have his shot at playing legit minutes I think the bigger concern is Conley and after his drop off last year I think that's fair. Last season we had NAW as PG option in addition to Donte. This year we have one less option. It feels like if Conley falls of a cliff or gets hurt we are left with Dillingham and and Donte plus Ingles playing somewhere as a playmaker and that's it at PG. That doesn't feel like a lot even if Edward's takes another step forward innthatvregard. I've suggested Clark might have more ability to help cover PG than most would suspect but it still seems like it makes sense to add some kind of PG or smart ball handling guard to the roster. It could even be another young PG like on a 2-way.

Watching some Iowa G-league highlights Newton is a fairly big PG that sure looks like he can play both guard positions physically. I'm not saying he is the answer to anything but his size does stand out. It will be interesting to see if he ends up playing in summer league and we can see how he does. One positive about him is he can stay a 2-way player for 2 more years. When they let go of Nix probably part of why they were willing to do that is he would have to have been retained with an actual NBA contract starting this year. Some will say these types of things are getting too far off into the weeds but every year we see 2-way guys having some legit contributions. Clark was one of those guys last year for the Wolves and McLaughlin was a solid contributor on a 2-way deal for what 3 seasons? I wonder if Newton might be a guy that takes a step forward after a season being a pro like McLaughlin did. It woukd be nice to hit on another guy that is worth having out on the court and does some good things.

Monster, You mention it above and I've seen other folks bring this up from time to time since we drafted Clark. I think we can all agree his natural position isn't PG, but I'd take it a step further and say that he's not even a secondary ball handler like NAW or DDV are. I watched a bunch of his G-League games and he spent 90-95% of his possessions off the ball. And there is a reason he only had 8 turnovers - albeit very impressive still - in his 500+ minutes with the big league Wolves. It's because he was never tasked with initiating the offense.

This is why it's so important we have actual point guards this season playing the position of point guard on the floor. It will allow others do what they do best. DDV can be the movement shooter he's meant to be. Clark can be the 3 & D point of attack defender he's meant to be. We can be less reliant on Julius when the matchups don't work and he's having one of his off nights. Etc., etc.

Thanks for sharing your observations of Clark in Iowa. I definitely will temper my expectations but I won't completely give up on Clark being able to do more than be a Robert Covington type player on offense. Clark played in Sumner league and then his time in Iowa was his next step to playing competitive basketball for the first time in well over a year. I'd just want him to do his thing not have him look to do a whole lot. It will be interesting to see if they maybe playing him a couple games in SL and see if he can do some more scoring in that arena. We will see what that roster looks like. Obviously the real key to Clark is if his 3 point shooting can be acceptable. I'll settle for him being good enough there in addition to his smart cutting and seemingly being at the right place and time. Anything else is a bonus but I do think there is still a chance for him to do a little more.

It is what Clark is working on this summer, so maybe he gets there one day.
Doogie was on Flagrant Howls a few weeks ago, and talked to Jaylen Clark. Said he was in Minnesota working on his off season workout plan. Clark told him that, he has a heavy emphasis on ball handling and finishing a the rim because in his words he absolutely expects to play a lot more minutes next season.