Wolves PG Position

[FNG]

Something is fundamentally wrong with the roster construction of a team where your two main point guards make $17M between them and your two main PFs make $60M. That is just effed up.

Now we can go into all the reasons how we arrived at this place, but to me it's not a sustainable path to continue having so much cap room invested in two defensively challenged PFs that really shouldn't be paired together much.

I'm going to give Tim Connelly some grace here given his track record, but I'm hopeful the right opportunity comes along between now and the trade deadline to make a move of some sort.

I have a similar view, Q. So here’s a question. Do you think the Wolves would be a better team with Capela or Kornet and Tyus Jones instead of Randle and Mike Conley? I suspect we could have moved on from Randle via sign-and-trade and somehow ended up with a good defensive backup center. I’m fairly certain we could have landed Tyus if we had traded Conley.

If Gobert is healthy when is Capela playing in the playoffs?

Personally, I much prefer Randle/Conley over Capela(or Kornet)/Jones.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I think the rub with Conley is that it was a bit of a wink-wink deal.

He'd sign on for two seasons... to stay in Minnesota.

It seems like Connelly puts A LOT of emphasis on taking care of his guys (see Conley) and (not pressuring both Reid and Randle into a few million less each).

The Wolves would be in better shape (financially) to have paid less for the two PFs and by trading Conley. Tim Connelly is betting on "good locker room vibes" though. I hope he's right... for multiple reasons.

Something is fundamentally wrong with the roster construction of a team where your two main point guards make $17M between them and your two main PFs make $60M. That is just effed up.

Now we can go into all the reasons how we arrived at this place, but to me it's not a sustainable path to continue having so much cap room invested in two defensively challenged PFs that really shouldn't be paired together much.

I'm going to give Tim Connelly some grace here given his track record, but I'm hopeful the right opportunity comes along between now and the trade deadline to make a move of some sort.

Yep. I hear you.

I think it's highly unlikely Randle finishes his contract in Minnesota.

I'm not even that confident he's making it to year 2.

[Monster]

I think the rub with Conley is that it was a bit of a wink-wink deal.

He'd sign on for two seasons... to stay in Minnesota.

It seems like Connelly puts A LOT of emphasis on taking care of his guys (see Conley) and (not pressuring both Reid and Randle into a few million less each).

The Wolves would be in better shape (financially) to have paid less for the two PFs and by trading Conley. Tim Connelly is betting on "good locker room vibes" though. I hope he's right... for multiple reasons.

Something is fundamentally wrong with the roster construction of a team where your two main point guards make $17M between them and your two main PFs make $60M. That is just effed up.

Now we can go into all the reasons how we arrived at this place, but to me it's not a sustainable path to continue having so much cap room invested in two defensively challenged PFs that really shouldn't be paired together much.

I'm going to give Tim Connelly some grace here given his track record, but I'm hopeful the right opportunity comes along between now and the trade deadline to make a move of some sort.

Yep. I hear you.

I think it's highly unlikely Randle finishes his contract in Minnesota.

I'm not even that confident he's making it to year 2.

Just imagine if Towns was still here he would be making about what both of those guys make which is 53 million this season not 60.

Conley took less for a 2 year deal both sides knowing there could be a drop off. When he signed the deal it was a good value at least for year one. Assuming he doesn't cometely drop off a cliff he will probbaly still be worth at least 5 million this year eve though he would have likely had to settle for a vet min salary if he was a FA.

Let's go a step further. The idea here is that Tyus would be a big step up from Conley if we could have gotten him. In a vaccum that makes sense. Just for fun I compared both guys per 36 stats. Tyus scored less than 2 ppg more last year than Conley and let's be honest that's about the only difference between these guys. They are pretty similar style PGs solid smart guys that aren't scorers but efficient. Tyus being almost 10 years younger obviously means he is likely more capable of playing more minutes if needed and that does have value but I think the idea that he is some sort of big upgrade over Conley is somewhat overstated in our minds. Part of that is the idea that Tyus could be a long term guy here of some kind. That idea isn't dead he will be a FA next year and if the need is here for someone like him we could have a shot at signing him especially depending on what the opportunity is. If Connelly would have known when he signed Conley to that short extension that he could have gotten Tyus for the same or less money than Conley maybe he would have let things play out and gone after Tyus. That didn't seem too likely at the time when Tyus was playing well.

[Q-is-here]

I think the rub with Conley is that it was a bit of a wink-wink deal.

He'd sign on for two seasons... to stay in Minnesota.

It seems like Connelly puts A LOT of emphasis on taking care of his guys (see Conley) and (not pressuring both Reid and Randle into a few million less each).

The Wolves would be in better shape (financially) to have paid less for the two PFs and by trading Conley. Tim Connelly is betting on "good locker room vibes" though. I hope he's right... for multiple reasons.

Something is fundamentally wrong with the roster construction of a team where your two main point guards make $17M between them and your two main PFs make $60M. That is just effed up.

Now we can go into all the reasons how we arrived at this place, but to me it's not a sustainable path to continue having so much cap room invested in two defensively challenged PFs that really shouldn't be paired together much.

I'm going to give Tim Connelly some grace here given his track record, but I'm hopeful the right opportunity comes along between now and the trade deadline to make a move of some sort.

I have a similar view, Q. So here’s a question. Do you think the Wolves would be a better team with Capela or Kornet and Tyus Jones instead of Randle and Mike Conley? I suspect we could have moved on from Randle via sign-and-trade and somehow ended up with a good defensive backup center. I’m fairly certain we could have landed Tyus if we had traded Conley.

Yes, I actually do think that would make us a better team and would allow Naz to be a full-time PF and for Jaden to essentially slide down and play some PF too, which I think long term might be his best position.

I don't think it's super hard to replace Randle's scoring and play making with a combination of Jaden, Shannon, and Dillingham....and Tyus too since he'd probably get a little more usage than Conley did.

[Lipoli390]

Something is fundamentally wrong with the roster construction of a team where your two main point guards make $17M between them and your two main PFs make $60M. That is just effed up.

Now we can go into all the reasons how we arrived at this place, but to me it's not a sustainable path to continue having so much cap room invested in two defensively challenged PFs that really shouldn't be paired together much.

I'm going to give Tim Connelly some grace here given his track record, but I'm hopeful the right opportunity comes along between now and the trade deadline to make a move of some sort.

I have a similar view, Q. So here’s a question. Do you think the Wolves would be a better team with Capela or Kornet and Tyus Jones instead of Randle and Mike Conley? I suspect we could have moved on from Randle via sign-and-trade and somehow ended up with a good defensive backup center. I’m fairly certain we could have landed Tyus if we had traded Conley.

Yes, I actually do think that would make us a better team and would allow Naz to be a full-time PF and for Jaden to essentially slide down and play some PF too, which I think long term might be his best position.

I don't think it's super hard to replace Randle's scoring and play making with a combination of Jaden, Shannon, and Dillingham....and Tyus too since he'd probably get a little more usage than Conley did.

I thought that would be your answer but I wasn’t sure. I share your assessment. I don’t know whether the Wolves front office has a different view or whether they just could come up with a sign-and trade acceptable to Julius that would make sense for the Wolves

[Monster]

Something is fundamentally wrong with the roster construction of a team where your two main point guards make $17M between them and your two main PFs make $60M. That is just effed up.

Now we can go into all the reasons how we arrived at this place, but to me it's not a sustainable path to continue having so much cap room invested in two defensively challenged PFs that really shouldn't be paired together much.

I'm going to give Tim Connelly some grace here given his track record, but I'm hopeful the right opportunity comes along between now and the trade deadline to make a move of some sort.

I have a similar view, Q. So here’s a question. Do you think the Wolves would be a better team with Capela or Kornet and Tyus Jones instead of Randle and Mike Conley? I suspect we could have moved on from Randle via sign-and-trade and somehow ended up with a good defensive backup center. I’m fairly certain we could have landed Tyus if we had traded Conley.

Yes, I actually do think that would make us a better team and would allow Naz to be a full-time PF and for Jaden to essentially slide down and play some PF too, which I think long term might be his best position.

I don't think it's super hard to replace Randle's scoring and play making with a combination of Jaden, Shannon, and Dillingham....and Tyus too since he'd probably get a little more usage than Conley did.

FWIW a different perspective last night I listened to the Game Theory podcasts on Wolves FA before all the moves and the FA commentary of what they thought of basically running it back. They both agreed that moving on from Randle without adding another #2 option besides the players with the Wolves would be a problem especially in the playoffs. They were like if you think Edwards got a lot of attention on defense imagine if the next top options were Naz and McDaniels. They said McDaniels showed some growth this year and in the playoffs he took advantage of the fact that teams didn't really guard him. They really like McDaniels but aren't really sure he is gonna take that step to being a 16 or 18ppg scorer. If he is then yeah ok but they aren't sure that's there. I think it may be harder than people think to replace all of what Randle does. The Wolves lost to OKC but what stats did Randle put up? Meanwhile how much use is Capela going to have most playoff series unless Gobert is hurt? At that point maybe you just play Beringer and let him see what the playoffs are like or play small...since a lot of team will probbaly be small anyway unless this little trend of scooping up centers continues. The Wolves might still be able to sign some sort of useful defensive big yet.

The Wolves can have those young guys do all the things you said and have Randle on the team too. He has shown willingness to step aside for other players. For example he only took 2 more shots a game than Naz in the regular season and he played more minutes. Ideally in the regular season Gobert plays a little less and Naz gets more run.

Again IMO we need to be adding more scoring and play making not less. Tyus Jones highest scoring rate per 36 mins was a couple years ago for Memphis at 15ppg. At this point we have enough data to say there is only so much there when it comes to scoring from Tyus. At this point NAW is about the same level of scorer and a better defender. It probably isn't a surprise NAW got nice contract and Tyus didn't because of his positional versatility on both sides of the ball. Tyus deserves better but...I think the league looks at him more as only a top backup than a potential starter. It doesn't help Tyus that there is a decent amount of FA options at the position this year. Schroeder is making up for some of that money he turned down years ago.

Let's say you go this route then who is the guy playing minutes at PF if Naz or McDaniels gets hurt? Is there some vet min FA PF that you feel good about or someone else on the roster playing those minutes? I probably woukd have felt better about Minott playing some there than Miller but hopefully Miller is ready because I think he might end up playing some minutes a few games because Randle tends to miss some games. I agree McDaniels can be deployed at PF but him playing there too much eliminates some of the advantage the Wolves have by playing him as a huge wing. They also really don't have another big wing because everyone else is more SG sized even TSJ.

[Q-is-here]

I have a similar view, Q. So here’s a question. Do you think the Wolves would be a better team with Capela or Kornet and Tyus Jones instead of Randle and Mike Conley? I suspect we could have moved on from Randle via sign-and-trade and somehow ended up with a good defensive backup center. I’m fairly certain we could have landed Tyus if we had traded Conley.

Yes, I actually do think that would make us a better team and would allow Naz to be a full-time PF and for Jaden to essentially slide down and play some PF too, which I think long term might be his best position.

I don't think it's super hard to replace Randle's scoring and play making with a combination of Jaden, Shannon, and Dillingham....and Tyus too since he'd probably get a little more usage than Conley did.

FWIW a different perspective last night I listened to the Game Theory podcasts on Wolves FA before all the moves and the FA commentary of what they thought of basically running it back. They both agreed that moving on from Randle without adding another #2 option besides the players with the Wolves would be a problem especially in the playoffs. They were like if you think Edwards got a lot of attention on defense imagine if the next top options were Naz and McDaniels. They said McDaniels showed some growth this year and in the playoffs he took advantage of the fact that teams didn't really guard him. They really like McDaniels but aren't really sure he is gonna take that step to being a 16 or 18ppg scorer. If he is then yeah ok but they aren't sure that's there. I think it may be harder than people think to replace all of what Randle does. The Wolves lost to OKC but what stats did Randle put up? Meanwhile how much use is Capela going to have most playoff series unless Gobert is hurt? At that point maybe you just play Beringer and let him see what the playoffs are like or play small...since a lot of team will probbaly be small anyway unless this little trend of scooping up centers continues. The Wolves might still be able to sign some sort of useful defensive big yet.

The Wolves can have those young guys do all the things you said and have Randle on the team too. He has shown willingness to step aside for other players. For example he only took 2 more shots a game than Naz in the regular season and he played more minutes. Ideally in the regular season Gobert plays a little less and Naz gets more run.

Again IMO we need to be adding more scoring and play making not less. Tyus Jones highest scoring rate per 36 mins was a couple years ago for Memphis at 15ppg. At this point we have enough data to say there is only so much there when it comes to scoring from Tyus. At this point NAW is about the same level of scorer and a better defender. It probably isn't a surprise NAW got nice contract and Tyus didn't because of his positional versatility on both sides of the ball. Tyus deserves better but...I think the league looks at him more as only a top backup than a potential starter. It doesn't help Tyus that there is a decent amount of FA options at the position this year. Schroeder is making up for some of that money he turned down years ago.

Let's say you go this route then who is the guy playing minutes at PF if Naz or McDaniels gets hurt? Is there some vet min FA PF that you feel good about or someone else on the roster playing those minutes? I probably woukd have felt better about Minott playing some there than Miller but hopefully Miller is ready because I think he might end up playing some minutes a few games because Randle tends to miss some games. I agree McDaniels can be deployed at PF but him playing there too much eliminates some of the advantage the Wolves have by playing him as a huge wing. They also really don't have another big wing because everyone else is more SG sized even TSJ.

Yes, Randle is a proven #2 option on a Conference Finals team, but a) he's on the wrong side of 30, b) he still holds the ball too much and we already have that problem with Ant, and c) he can't slide down to Center without it compromising our defense in some way.

I'm willing to gamble that the cream would rise to the top and ultimately an equally good (or close) #2 emerges between Jaden, TJ, and Dillingham. I don't know which one, but Randle's departure would really open up more opportunities for all these guys.

In terms of backup PF, it would probably be Miller if Naz or Jaden got hurt. I also think TJ could play some small-ball PF, as he measured 6'6" (without shoes) and 220 lbs. at the combine, which is bigger than Jalen Williams. It's at least big enough to play SF, which is the primary position TJ will play for us backing up Jaden at the 3.

[Monster]

Yes, I actually do think that would make us a better team and would allow Naz to be a full-time PF and for Jaden to essentially slide down and play some PF too, which I think long term might be his best position.

I don't think it's super hard to replace Randle's scoring and play making with a combination of Jaden, Shannon, and Dillingham....and Tyus too since he'd probably get a little more usage than Conley did.

FWIW a different perspective last night I listened to the Game Theory podcasts on Wolves FA before all the moves and the FA commentary of what they thought of basically running it back. They both agreed that moving on from Randle without adding another #2 option besides the players with the Wolves would be a problem especially in the playoffs. They were like if you think Edwards got a lot of attention on defense imagine if the next top options were Naz and McDaniels. They said McDaniels showed some growth this year and in the playoffs he took advantage of the fact that teams didn't really guard him. They really like McDaniels but aren't really sure he is gonna take that step to being a 16 or 18ppg scorer. If he is then yeah ok but they aren't sure that's there. I think it may be harder than people think to replace all of what Randle does. The Wolves lost to OKC but what stats did Randle put up? Meanwhile how much use is Capela going to have most playoff series unless Gobert is hurt? At that point maybe you just play Beringer and let him see what the playoffs are like or play small...since a lot of team will probbaly be small anyway unless this little trend of scooping up centers continues. The Wolves might still be able to sign some sort of useful defensive big yet.

The Wolves can have those young guys do all the things you said and have Randle on the team too. He has shown willingness to step aside for other players. For example he only took 2 more shots a game than Naz in the regular season and he played more minutes. Ideally in the regular season Gobert plays a little less and Naz gets more run.

Again IMO we need to be adding more scoring and play making not less. Tyus Jones highest scoring rate per 36 mins was a couple years ago for Memphis at 15ppg. At this point we have enough data to say there is only so much there when it comes to scoring from Tyus. At this point NAW is about the same level of scorer and a better defender. It probably isn't a surprise NAW got nice contract and Tyus didn't because of his positional versatility on both sides of the ball. Tyus deserves better but...I think the league looks at him more as only a top backup than a potential starter. It doesn't help Tyus that there is a decent amount of FA options at the position this year. Schroeder is making up for some of that money he turned down years ago.

Let's say you go this route then who is the guy playing minutes at PF if Naz or McDaniels gets hurt? Is there some vet min FA PF that you feel good about or someone else on the roster playing those minutes? I probably woukd have felt better about Minott playing some there than Miller but hopefully Miller is ready because I think he might end up playing some minutes a few games because Randle tends to miss some games. I agree McDaniels can be deployed at PF but him playing there too much eliminates some of the advantage the Wolves have by playing him as a huge wing. They also really don't have another big wing because everyone else is more SG sized even TSJ.

Yes, Randle is a proven #2 option on a Conference Finals team, but a) he's on the wrong side of 30, b) he still holds the ball too much and we already have that problem with Ant, and c) he can't slide down to Center without it compromising our defense in some way.

I'm willing to gamble that the cream would rise to the top and ultimately an equally good (or close) #2 emerges between Jaden, TJ, and Dillingham. I don't know which one, but Randle's departure would really open up more opportunities for all these guys.

In terms of backup PF, it would probably be Miller if Naz or Jaden got hurt. I also think TJ could play some small-ball PF, as he measured 6'6" (without shoes) and 220 lbs. at the combine, which is bigger than Jalen Williams. It's at least big enough to play SF, which is the primary position TJ will play for us backing up Jaden at the 3.

I don't think a guy that's 6'5.75 with a 6'8.75" wingspan is particularly big SF but I agree he might be useful as a small ball PF at times. One of the things the guys on Gane Theory podcast discussed WA they thought TSJ was not good on defense last season. I didn't watch him enough to say if I disagreed with them or not. I was a little surprised by that. Of course playing D at wing positions measurements only mayyer so much. Donte isn't the biggest guy but he plays bigger. Jimmy Butler is about the same size as TSJ (which strengthens your point) but he just plays bigger than that.

If these young guys can't break through playing with good offensive players then they aren't gonna be good. I'm tired of hearing how Randle or whatever player blocks them from opportunities. We used to hand guys minutes and that didn't work either. If those guys step up their game they will get minutes and there are opportunities this season for them with the departure of NAW and even to some small extent Minott...which shows these other guys are gonna be given a shot at playing from the organization. This team also wants to win basketball games and Randle is a good basketball player although flawed just like a lot of players.

Ultimately at least one of those young guys NEEDS to break through even with Randle on the roster if the Wolves want to win a championship or at this point even get back to the WCF. If that doesn't happen it doesn't matter whether Randle is here or not here or on mars or the Wolves have a competent backup C the Wolves won't be a contender this year or next etc that we all are wanting and figuring our the best route to make it happen.