Who is our 11th man?

[FNG]

I think almost everyone here would agree on who our top 10 rotation players are...the remaining 7 from last year's starting 8 plus our 3 promising 2nd year players. They all stand to get a lot of minutes this season. And I also think everyone would agree that Joe Ingles is our 13th man. So that then leaves Joan Beringer and Leonard Miller as our 11th and 12th man. But in what order, and why does it matter? 11th and 12th men are not generally critical to a team's success, and certainly not with a coach like Finchy who prefers a tighter rotation than most coaches. Well, it's going to matter if one of our big men misses some time, and either Joan or Leonard will likely get a big opportunity if that happens.

I know some here will argue that Joan will be in the rotation this season regardless of injuries, but I find that highly doubtful. If Finchy didn't think TJ Shannon was ready to crack the rotation last year, it would be a stretch to think he will think a guy 6 years younger is. We already have 10 guys who deserve big minutes, and Finchy isn't going to change enough to embrace an 11-man rotation. But I still see Joan and Leonard as key players this year, because our three bigs (plus Jaden in a pinch) are not going to stay healthy all year. Nobody thought of Luka Garza as a rotation player last year, but when Gobert/Randle went down, suddenly Luka was playing double digit minutes many nights. But he's gone, so somebody else will become our "break glass in case of fire) guy. And absent adding a big to the roster, it's going to be one of them.

Now, here is where I'm risking getting permanently banished from the board. I think this year's Luka Garza is more likely to be Miller than Joan. Yes, I know he is more of a PF than a center, but Luka was not really a classic center defensively either. Joan showed us last night that he can be effective in summer league. But Miller has shown us for three years that he can dominate summer league...and the G League as well. Heck, he averaged 25.2/11.1 in 37 MPG in the G League last season! In contrast, Joan averaged 5.1/4.7 (with 1.4 blocks) in his 18 minutes in Slovenia last season. I frankly don't know the relative quality of two leagues, but for what it's worth, I suspect that the typical player in the Slovenian League owns more sunscreen than the typical G League player .

We love the shiny new toy here, and I agree Joan fits that bill better than Miller. And Miller also doesn't seem to have a great basketball mind (I don't know yet if Joan does). But while Miller is a whipping boy mostly on this board and we all loved what Joan did last night, let's compare their box scores. Miller went 20/9 with 4 blocked shots (there's that near double double again), while Joan went 11/8 with 6 blocks in 5 fewer minutes. So both can be productive against this kind of talent, but I suspect neither will be very effective in the NBA if called upon to play this season. Finchy knows though how difficult it is to adjust to the NBA, and I think he will lean toward the 22 year old who has been able to watch the game for a couple years now over the 19 year old who hasn't really seen the NBA game.

Okay, fire away Miller haters!

[Phenom]

I actually think Beringer has a better shot than the other guys last year if he can be effective on defense and secure rebounds. He won't be in many situations to make decisions with the ball in his hands or knock down jump shots like the others were or like Lenny might.

I think it might depend on who is injured in this scenario. Miller has more Julius/Naz capabilities whereas Joan is the Rudy facsimile. As long as one isn't a trainwreck, it might just go that way.

[FNG]

I actually think Beringer has a better shot than the other guys last year if he can be effective on defense and secure rebounds. He won't be in many situations to make decisions with the ball in his hands or knock down jump shots like the others were or like Lenny might.

I think it might depend on who is injured in this scenario. Miller has more Julius/Naz capabilities whereas Joan is the Rudy facsimile. As long as one isn't a trainwreck, it might just go that way.

Good point, phenom, on it depending on who gets injured, since Joan is a center (although did you notice him playing PF for a few minutes with Edwards last night!) and Lenny is more of a PF.

[Monster]

We will see what both guys do the rest of Summer league. Maybe Miller shows he is more than he has shown already in SL and the G-league.

I'll say this that if the Wolves believe in Miller as an NBA player going into the season they may as well play him at least if there are injuries to a big. If...he is actually something it's possible part of his issue is he hasn't played up that next level to find out what he can and can't do and or what he needs to actually improve. At some point he can't really develop or succeed if he isn't failing and learning at the NBA level. I also wonder at this point if he has the athletic ability to play as a big wing like Minott did last year. Previously I was skeptical about that. I'm gonna be watching him on the perimeter in summer league. Yesterday he was really getting down in a stance. He looks more wiry than I remember so maybe that's part of the plan. I think he might have the physical ability to play as a SF sometimes but idk if he has the BBIQ to do it. If he could slot in as a combo forward that maybe even could play as a small ball 5 occasionally that would be more interesting because him rebounding his position at SF and making cuts etc woukd be fun...but in theory that was kinda what Minott brought to the table and I believed in his defense more in general.

Joan looks like the backup C we have all been wanting to sign defense rebound play with energy. If he looks anywhere near like he did last night (we need to see more than one game but it was impressive) the rest of summer league we don't need to waste a roster spot on some half decent vet center just play Joan. Instead just sign the best player you can get. Hell signing Cain as a decent backup low usage defensive wing might not even suck. If one of the defensive wings got hurt it wouldn't be bad to have another one. Just sayin.

Stats in SL are fine and all but I like watching how guys play and perform. Joan was either the best or 2nd best player on the Wolves yesterday and one of the best players on the floor. And he is still 18. Miller is a couple years older and the G-league probably is better talent than what Beringer played last year...so yeah Beringer was impressive.

[Coolbreeze44]

FNG, dissenting opinions from quality posters like you are always welcome and appreciated. But yeah, I feel quite different. Joan may not get 20 minutes right off the hop, but he's going to play. He's just too talented to keep down for very long. I think they will probably work him in like they did for Jaden. Bits and pieces at first, but once he gets established there will be no reason not to get him out there. And of course there will be injuries which will help speed up his involvement. He's just so gifted that he won't be denied.

[Monster]

FNG, dissenting opinions from quality posters like you are always welcome and appreciated. But yeah, I feel quite different. Joan may not get 20 minutes right off the hop, but he's going to play. He's just too talented to keep down for very long. I think they will probably work him in like they did for Jaden. Bits and pieces at first, but once he gets established there will be no reason not to get him out there. And of course there will be injuries which will help speed up his involvement. He's just so gifted that he won't be denied.

Cool I'm curious what got you on the Beringer bandwagon? Maybe I missed it earlier.

[Coolbreeze44]

FNG, dissenting opinions from quality posters like you are always welcome and appreciated. But yeah, I feel quite different. Joan may not get 20 minutes right off the hop, but he's going to play. He's just too talented to keep down for very long. I think they will probably work him in like they did for Jaden. Bits and pieces at first, but once he gets established there will be no reason not to get him out there. And of course there will be injuries which will help speed up his involvement. He's just so gifted that he won't be denied.

Cool I'm curious what got you on the Beringer bandwagon? Maybe I missed it earlier.

Honestly it was the first minute of the game yesterday, and then I watched him very closely the rest of the way. His game is already special. I knew very little about him until yesterday.

[60WinTim]

I put in an order for a 2-day ban on FNG….

The only cautionary tale I can come up with is Herschel Walker. So, I am willing to give Joan a few more Summer League games before developing a final conclusion.

And here is an observation on Finch’s reluctance to play rookies last year. Our rotation was revamped just before training camp with the KAT trade, including the addition of an extra rotation player, taking away an opportunity for our rookies. The rotation took a LONG time to develop some effective chemistry. Again, less opportunity for the rookies. And because the rotation was a work in progress, we played .500 ball for a large part of the season, when we were expected to be competing for a championship. Finch couldn’t risk games by playing rookies.

With NAW gone and Mike’s diminishing minutes, and the year under our rookies’ belts, I expect a lot more opportunity for their playing time. And assuming we are high up in the standings right from the get go, Finch ought to feel a little more freedom to play those guys. And this could benefit Joan as well.

Anyway, I think the circumstances are quite different this year compared to last year for playing the young guys.

[FNG]

I put in an order for a 2-day ban on FNG….

The only cautionary tale I can come up with is Herschel Walker. So, I am willing to give Joan a few more Summer League games before developing a final conclusion.

And here is an observation on Finch’s reluctance to play rookies last year. Our rotation was revamped just before training camp with the KAT trade, including the addition of an extra rotation player, taking away an opportunity for our rookies. The rotation took a LONG time to develop some effective chemistry. Again, less opportunity for the rookies. And because the rotation was a work in progress, we played .500 ball for a large part of the season, when we were expected to be competing for a championship. Finch couldn’t risk games by playing rookies.

With NAW gone and Mike’s diminishing minutes, and the year under our rookies’ belts, I expect a lot more opportunity for their playing time. And assuming we are high up in the standings right from the get go, Finch ought to feel a little more freedom to play those guys. And this could benefit Joan as well.

Anyway, I think the circumstances are quite different this year compared to last year for playing the young guys.

Just 2 days...that's a relief. I'll see you guys Monday .

[Monster]

I put in an order for a 2-day ban on FNG….

The only cautionary tale I can come up with is Herschel Walker. So, I am willing to give Joan a few more Summer League games before developing a final conclusion.

And here is an observation on Finch’s reluctance to play rookies last year. Our rotation was revamped just before training camp with the KAT trade, including the addition of an extra rotation player, taking away an opportunity for our rookies. The rotation took a LONG time to develop some effective chemistry. Again, less opportunity for the rookies. And because the rotation was a work in progress, we played .500 ball for a large part of the season, when we were expected to be competing for a championship. Finch couldn’t risk games by playing rookies.

With NAW gone and Mike’s diminishing minutes, and the year under our rookies’ belts, I expect a lot more opportunity for their playing time. And assuming we are high up in the standings right from the get go, Finch ought to feel a little more freedom to play those guys. And this could benefit Joan as well.

Anyway, I think the circumstances are quite different this year compared to last year for playing the young guys.

Just 2 days...that's a relief. I'll see you guys Monday .

Finch did say during the game he was expanding the rotation. It makes sense but to some extent I will believe it when I see it. Losing NAW is gonna require someone younger playing minutes. I thought it was interesting how Finch referred to NAW as kinda like a utility infielder. I think that made a lot of sense he is sort of a Willi Castro type guy and I think to some extent it is gonna hurt not having NAW on the roster but hopefully with some continuity that helps and hopefully Donte hits the ground running this season.