SL Game 2 - Wolves at Nuggets GDT

[D-Loser25]

Flagg is being shut down after a big game. I wonder if we shut down TSJ, or let him keep playing, work on his playmaking, and building more chemistry with the other young players.

Tough call. I selfishly wanna see him more, but if I’m TC, I shut him down.

I think TSJ will be our #2 that we’ve been waiting on and I actually think it’s gonna happen pretty fast next year. I think he forces himself into 25-30 minutes a game next year and I also think he forces a trade of either Randle or DDV during the season. I don’t think he’ll be as good as Jalen Williams, but I see a similar player.

The fact that we have Dilly, TSJ and Joan is pretty darn impressive for a team that gave up so much for Rudy. Dilly needs a lot of work at the rim, but I think he’ll get there eventually. I’m thankful that KD didn’t wanna come here, because that could have really screwed this up. Maybe KD saved TC from him self on that one. TC has been great, but I think his only weakness is overpaying for big names in trades (I still think he overpaid for both Naz and Randle, but maybe he’s sure he can trade both later)

I’d still like to see a Randle trade this offseason (not sure if we can still trade him now with the way his extension was done) for a younger guard (combo or PG) and a younger big with upside. A 1 for 2 Randle trade would be my preferred way of getting our roster to 14. Starting this season, I really don’t think this team needs Randles offense anymore. I think you can easily fill that void with TSJ, Jaden, DDV and Dilly, plus whatever you get back in a Randle trade. Randle is good guy for a team just looking to raise their floor.

[Lipoli390]

Flagg is being shut down after a big game. I wonder if we shut down TSJ, or let him keep playing, work on his playmaking, and building more chemistry with the other young players.

Tough call. I selfishly wanna see him more, but if I’m TC, I shut him down.

I think TSJ will be our #2 that we’ve been waiting on and I actually think it’s gonna happen pretty fast next year. I think he forces himself into 25-30 minutes a game next year and I also think he forces a trade of either Randle or DDV during the season. I don’t think he’ll be as good as Jalen Williams, but I see a similar player.

The fact that we have Dilly, TSJ and Joan is pretty darn impressive for a team that gave up so much for Rudy. Dilly needs a lot of work at the rim, but I think he’ll get there eventually. I’m thankful that KD didn’t wanna come here, because that could have really screwed this up. Maybe KD saved TC from him self on that one. TC has been great, but I think his only weakness is overpaying for big names in trades (I still think he overpaid for both Naz and Randle, but maybe he’s sure he can trade both later)

I’d still like to see a Randle trade this offseason (not sure if we can still trade him now with the way his extension was done) for a younger guard (combo or PG) and a younger big with upside. A 1 for 2 Randle trade would be my preferred way of getting our roster to 14. Starting this season, I really don’t think this team needs Randles offense anymore. I think you can easily fill that void with TSJ, Jaden, DDV and Dilly, plus whatever you get back in a Randle trade. Randle is good guy for a team just looking to raise their floor.

Good analysis. I generally agree with you except I don’t think Naz or Randle is overpaid. But I think you hit the nail on the head in referring to those contracts as tradable, which is part of why I don’t think either one was overpaid. If TSJ and Clark look really good the first couple months of the season, then I can see the Wolves moving Donte and possibly Randle by the February trade deadline. I agree that TSJ seems like he will be a somewhat lesser version of Jalen Williams, which would be great for us. I think Dilly is going to develop into a borderline star in a couple years and I still see more upside in Jaden McDaniels.

We’ll probably never know what TC was willing to give up for Durant. It had to include either Randle or Rudy along with Donte, at least one of our two picks and at least one of our trio of recent picks - Dilly, TSJ and/or Clark. I honestly can’t think of any realistic outgoing package I would have liked. Thanks to Durant’s rejection of us, we have TSJ, Dilly, Clark, Beringer and Rocco. I wouldn’t give up any of those guys for three years of Durant at $50-60M per year. As it stands, we have all those younger guys plus Donte, Rudy and Randle. If we trade any or all of those three vets, we’ll get significant value in return.

To be fair to TC, he could have pulled the trigger on a Durant deal regardless of Durant’s preference but he didn’t. He got a nice return for DLO and for KAT. While I still don’t like how much we gave up for Rudy, I can see the value Rudy has brought to the team and somehow TC has found a way to infuse the franchise with intriguing young talent in spite of how much the Rudy deal depleted our draft cupboard.

[Monster]

Has anyone seen other guys in SL that you would be really interested either on a 2-way or maybe a non guaranteed NBA contract?

[Lipoli390]

Just a few thoughts
TSJ just too good for the summer league however I will not mind him playing all summer because he makes the job easier on others.

Dilly was a mixed bag, I still worry that he really struggles at the rim. Thought he defense was not good tonight, thought his passing and pace of play was great today

Clark is struggling with his shot but he shot well at the nba level and he is a game breaker on defense

Beringer does not have much of an offensive game but his hands and athleticism pops on TV. Happy he was our pick because he looks like he could be special

Rocco was also really nice tonight. Made a great pass, made a floater, defender the rim. I’m intrigued to say the least.

Miller was terrible, I just don’t think he has the basketball IQ to be a successful nba player.

I want to give a shout out to Newton. I thought he was great tonight and props to him because I see why the wolves want him on a 2-way

I agree with all your takes. But I’ll add that I was relatively pleased with Edwards. How about that rebound when he was fighting for the ball and ripped it out of the Nuggets player’s hands? He’s clearly gotten stronger and more aggressive since last season. There might be an NBA player in there after all. Like you, I still don’t see Miller as an NBA player. His basketball IQ seems far too low and his shot too inconsistent.

Getting back to our trio of young bigs, how about Rocco chasing down and going to the floor for a loose ball and then making a good pass from his prone position on the hardwood? He’s amazingly nimble for his size and I love the way he gets after it. He doesn’t have Beringer’s overall talent in my view, but he has more size and plenty of upside talent of his own. And again, I wouldn’t count Edwards out either as a potential big off the bench for the Wolves next season or thereafter.

Have to feel good about our front court situation with Rudy, Randle, Naz, Jaden, Joan, Rocco, and Edwards. Of those seven, I can see Randle being moved before the trade deadline or next summer and Rudy gradually ramping down over the next several years but still giving us elite defense and rebounding along the way.

[Monster]

Flagg is being shut down after a big game. I wonder if we shut down TSJ, or let him keep playing, work on his playmaking, and building more chemistry with the other young players.

Tough call. I selfishly wanna see him more, but if I’m TC, I shut him down.

I think TSJ will be our #2 that we’ve been waiting on and I actually think it’s gonna happen pretty fast next year. I think he forces himself into 25-30 minutes a game next year and I also think he forces a trade of either Randle or DDV during the season. I don’t think he’ll be as good as Jalen Williams, but I see a similar player.

The fact that we have Dilly, TSJ and Joan is pretty darn impressive for a team that gave up so much for Rudy. Dilly needs a lot of work at the rim, but I think he’ll get there eventually. I’m thankful that KD didn’t wanna come here, because that could have really screwed this up. Maybe KD saved TC from him self on that one. TC has been great, but I think his only weakness is overpaying for big names in trades (I still think he overpaid for both Naz and Randle, but maybe he’s sure he can trade both later)

I’d still like to see a Randle trade this offseason (not sure if we can still trade him now with the way his extension was done) for a younger guard (combo or PG) and a younger big with upside. A 1 for 2 Randle trade would be my preferred way of getting our roster to 14. Starting this season, I really don’t think this team needs Randles offense anymore. I think you can easily fill that void with TSJ, Jaden, DDV and Dilly, plus whatever you get back in a Randle trade. Randle is good guy for a team just looking to raise their floor.

Good analysis. I generally agree with you except I don’t think Naz or Randle is overpaid. But I think you hit the nail on the head in referring to those contracts as tradable, which is part of why I don’t think either one was overpaid. If TSJ and Clark look really good the first couple months of the season, then I can see the Wolves moving Donte and possibly Randle by the February trade deadline. I agree that TSJ seems like he will be a somewhat lesser version of Jalen Williams, which would be great for us. I think Dilly is going to develop into a borderline star in a couple years and I still see more upside in Jaden McDaniels.

We’ll probably never know what TC was willing to give up for Durant. It had to include either Randle or Rudy along with Donte, at least one of our two picks and at least one of our trio of recent picks - Dilly, TSJ and/or Clark. I honestly can’t think of any realistic outgoing package I would have liked. Thanks to Durant’s rejection of us, we have TSJ, Dilly, Clark, Beringer and Rocco. I wouldn’t give up any of those guys for three years of Durant at $50-60M per year. As it stands, we have all those younger guys plus Donte, Rudy and Randle. If we trade any or all of those three vets, we’ll get significant value in return.

To be fair to TC, he could have pulled the trigger on a Durant deal regardless of Durant’s preference but he didn’t. He got a nice return for DLO and for KAT. While I still don’t like how much we gave up for Rudy, I can see the value Rudy has brought to the team and somehow TC has found a way to infuse the franchise with intriguing young talent in spite of how much the Rudy deal depleted our draft cupboard.

The last part that you said Lip was why I was kinda OK with the Gobert deal. I thought Connelly was good enough to build the roster even without those assets he gave up for Gobert. Plus he didn't give up any of the young guys that we really wanted to keep like McDaniels. Twice now he has traded a vet player for multiple worthwhile players and draft compensation.

For fun let's look at the assets he got for Russell

Conley
2.5 years of NAW for cheap
A 2nd used with another 2nd round pick to go up and get Miller
Rocco
Cash from trading down
Cash for NAW
Two 2026 2nd round picks although they are likely to be low ones.
2032 2nd round pick the best of Houston and Pheonix.
There was another 2nd that went somwhere but I can't remember in some trade but it doesn't matter much at this point.

It's worth mentioning that NAW and Conley were pieces of a team that went to 2 straight WCF.

So even though the Wolves eventual lost NAW they still have stuff coming to them from that trade.

This should give fans some confidence that Connelly could move another vet for possible value down the road if needed. I think it's easy to say that Randle's contract is cheaper than either Russell or Towns when they were traded. Russell when he was traded made about what Randle is making this coming season and salaries have gone up. Russell I suppose still had a little upside yet when he was dealt (maybe) but he hadn't really achieved what Randle has done in his career.

One last thing I'll say about Connelly. It is disappointing that Josh Minott didn't work out for the Wolves although how harshly should we look at a selection that was a mid 40's pick? Remember that Connelly traded down to select Minott and the pick he received for trading down was a pick that ended up in the 50's where Connelly selected Jaylen Clark. Good GMs don't nail every selection or move but they do moves or sign players etc that do work out in some way to kinda make up for it. Jaylen Clark might be that move twice. One for the Minott pick and when Clark was picked he may end up being more valuable than Miller in that draft.

I'm not saying Connelly is the smartest GM in the league but he has done some pretty good stuff. He isn't a fraid to pull the trigger and he also isn't afraid of letting a guy go. That should be considered when we think about the contracts he gave out to Naz and Randle. Also kinda impressed that he some who ended up finding a way to keep Naz twice. Part of that obviously is Naz wanting to be here but having 2 talented guys in Towns and Naz and then Randle and Naz on a roster is pretty nice.

[Monster]

Just a few thoughts
TSJ just too good for the summer league however I will not mind him playing all summer because he makes the job easier on others.

Dilly was a mixed bag, I still worry that he really struggles at the rim. Thought he defense was not good tonight, thought his passing and pace of play was great today

Clark is struggling with his shot but he shot well at the nba level and he is a game breaker on defense

Beringer does not have much of an offensive game but his hands and athleticism pops on TV. Happy he was our pick because he looks like he could be special

Rocco was also really nice tonight. Made a great pass, made a floater, defender the rim. I’m intrigued to say the least.

Miller was terrible, I just don’t think he has the basketball IQ to be a successful nba player.

I want to give a shout out to Newton. I thought he was great tonight and props to him because I see why the wolves want him on a 2-way

I agree with all your takes. But I’ll add that I was relatively pleased with Edwards. How about that rebound when he was fighting for the ball and ripped it out of the Nuggets player’s hands? He’s clearly gotten stronger and more aggressive since last season. There might be an NBA player in there after all. Like you, I still don’t see Miller as an NBA player. His basketball IQ seems far too low and his shot too inconsistent.

Getting back to our trio of young bigs, how about Rocco chasing down and going to the floor for a loose ball and then making a good pass from his prone position on the hardwood? He’s amazingly nimble for his size and I love the way he gets after it. He doesn’t have Beringer’s overall talent in my view, but he has more size and plenty of upside talent of his own. And again, I wouldn’t count Edwards out either as a potential big off the bench for the Wolves next season or thereafter.

Have to feel good about our front court situation with Rudy, Randle, Naz, Jaden, Joan, Rocco, and Edwards. Of those seven, I can see Randle being moved before the trade deadline or next summer and Rudy gradually ramping down over the next several years but still giving us elite defense and rebounding along the way.

Wow Lip you are giving Edwards a chance at being NBA player! He is still a little weak with the ball and awkward but one thing I was noticing after Steve Smith said it was he really does move pretty well for someone his size. He isn't some switchable center but he isn't completely dead in the water outside the paint either. Like you said he is stronger than last year and more aggressive and he just moves with more purpose and like he knows what he is doing...as much as any big can for SL play. Lol

I'm doing an about face on Miller only being a big. I think there is a chance he can play some as a SF. He isn't going to be a lock down defender but he showing some signs of being able to play team defense that worthwhile players do. His rebounding is real regardless of where he plays and that's part of defense and rebounding has been somewhat of a problem for the Wolves for a while. I think maybe we are being a little too hard on him when he makes a couple mistakes. It's not like TSJ or Dillingham or Clark made some mistakes with the ball in this game and they aren't being called guys that aren't NBA players. Obviously Miller doesn't have the resume of those guys but he shouldn't evaluated only on the bad plays that he makes. I think he is showing more ability to be a complimentary player than before especially if he can move his feet well enough to play as a SF. This might be another reason why they let Minott go.

[Q-is-here]

Has anyone seen other guys in SL that you would be really interested either on a 2-way or maybe a non guaranteed NBA contract?

Haven't watched enough of the other games to really notice anyone. None of the non-contract/2-way players on the Wolves roster have really stood out to me yet, but we may see more of them if Shannon sits the last few games.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Watched an entire summer league game for the first time since... ever?

Just a couple of random observations...

- I heard Clark passed up at least one open three in the opener. He did again Saturday. He looks pedestrian on offense and it will be his largest hurdle in the NBA. It was expected to be before the draft. I think last year might prove to be the anomaly. He's limited, but guys like him and Okogie have a place in the L... in limited amounts.

- Rob Dillingham seems to have one of the tighter (and looser) dribbles in the L. One other note... I don't like how he retreats when defended strongly. Granted, the reset gets him in position to get by his guy and create. But, being able to just fly by a pressing defender without the reset (which lets the entire defense reset as well) is MUCH better.

- Beringer was quiet, but made "winning" plays, basically, rebounds and kickouts for shots. BUT... the NBA summer league is the antithesis to "winning basketball." There are very real and valid reasons all of these guys are playing in the league... and most do not have a shot at an NBA roster. What I'm saying is... it's a very low bar. I'm optimistic to see more though, and that's exciting.

[Q-is-here]

Watched an entire summer league game for the first time since... ever?

Just a couple of random observations...

- I heard Clark passed up at least one open three in the opener. He did again Saturday. He looks pedestrian on offense and it will be his largest hurdle in the NBA. It was expected to be before the draft. I think last year might prove to be the anomaly. He's limited, but guys like him and Okogie have a place in the L... in limited amounts.

- Rob Dillingham seems to have one of the tighter (and looser) dribbles in the L. One other note... I don't like how he retreats when defended strongly. Granted, the reset gets him in position to get by his guy and create. But, being able to just fly by a pressing defender without the reset (which lets the entire defense reset as well) is MUCH better.

- Beringer was quiet, but made "winning" plays, basically, rebounds and kickouts for shots. BUT... the NBA summer league is the antithesis to "winning basketball." There are very real and valid reasons all of these guys are playing in the league... and most do not have a shot at an NBA roster. What I'm saying is... it's a very low bar. I'm optimistic to see more though, and that's exciting.

Abe, I think you are spot on with Dillingham. He sometimes throws off guys trying to set screens for him too by going too soon or rejecting it. Too much herky jerky stuff at times and not enough decisiveness.

I somewhat disagree with your other two points. On Clark, I trust his body of work last season in the G-League and actual NBA games more than what we are seeing in Summer League. He already proved that he's not Josh Okogie in terms of his outside shooting. Now I don't know if he hits them at 40% again, but he proved that he was a credible threat from beyond the arc last season.

On Beringer, I'm not sure which game you watched, but in the first one he played against Missi, who was literally a starting NBA Center last year and was playing alongside Derik Queen, the second Center picked in the draft and one of the more offensively polished prospects. Neither of those guys could do much in the paint with Beringer there.

While I'm generally pretty cautious about prospects, if I just watched him play without any knowledge of his age and lack of basketball experience, I'd conclude that he could be ready for some spot minutes at Center next season in games that matter. I'm not talking about 15+ minutes every game, but spot duty on a semi-regular basis in games that matter.

But it's just assumed that he won't be - not because of his actual play on the floor but because of his age and lack of experience. Why is it that Derek Lively II at age 19 could contribute to a Mavs deep playoff run two seasons ago, but Joan Beringer won't even play next season (according to some of our favorite pundits)? May be we should trust our own eyes!

[AbeVigodaLive]

Watched an entire summer league game for the first time since... ever?

Just a couple of random observations...

- I heard Clark passed up at least one open three in the opener. He did again Saturday. He looks pedestrian on offense and it will be his largest hurdle in the NBA. It was expected to be before the draft. I think last year might prove to be the anomaly. He's limited, but guys like him and Okogie have a place in the L... in limited amounts.

- Rob Dillingham seems to have one of the tighter (and looser) dribbles in the L. One other note... I don't like how he retreats when defended strongly. Granted, the reset gets him in position to get by his guy and create. But, being able to just fly by a pressing defender without the reset (which lets the entire defense reset as well) is MUCH better.

- Beringer was quiet, but made "winning" plays, basically, rebounds and kickouts for shots. BUT... the NBA summer league is the antithesis to "winning basketball." There are very real and valid reasons all of these guys are playing in the league... and most do not have a shot at an NBA roster. What I'm saying is... it's a very low bar. I'm optimistic to see more though, and that's exciting.

Abe, I think you are spot on with Dillingham. He sometimes throws off guys trying to set screens for him too by going too soon or rejecting it. Too much herky jerky stuff at times and not enough decisiveness.

I somewhat disagree with your other two points. On Clark, I trust his body of work last season in the G-League and actual NBA games more than what we are seeing in Summer League. He already proved that he's not Josh Okogie in terms of his outside shooting. Now I don't know if he hits them at 40% again, but he proved that he was a credible threat from beyond the arc last season.

On Beringer, I'm not sure which game you watched, but in the first one he played against Missi, who was literally a starting NBA Center last year and was playing alongside Derik Queen, the second Center picked in the draft and one of the more offensively polished prospects. Neither of those guys could do much in the paint with Beringer there.

While I'm generally pretty cautious about prospects, if I just watched him play without any knowledge of his age and lack of basketball experience, I'd conclude that he could be ready for some spot minutes at Center next season in games that matter. I'm not talking about 15+ minutes every game, but spot duty on a semi-regular basis in games that matter.

But it's just assumed that he won't be - not because of his actual play on the floor but because of his age and lack of experience. Why is it that Derek Lively II at age 19 could contribute to a Mavs deep playoff run two seasons ago, but Joan Beringer won't even play next season (according to some of our favorite pundits)? May be we should trust our own eyes!

You might be right on Clark. Over 51 shots with the Wolves... and 20 games with Iowa... his three point shooting was steady to good.

As for Beringer. I wasn't being negative about the performance I saw from him in Game 2. (Heck, he's the primary reason I watched the entire game.) He didn't make mistakes. He got key rebounds. Didn't try to do too much. Et al. And he ended, probably unsurprisingly, with a team-high +15. That's sort of my point. He made winning plays while playing vs. mostly "non-winning young" players. Basically, he stayed in his lane, which is not a bad thing at all for such a young, raw player known for his defense. The big step will be to keep making winning plays vs. NBA competition on a much larger stage. So far, so good.