Rob Dillingham

[BeenLurkin]

I haven’t seen as much potential for TJ to be a half court offense star compared to Dilly. Dilly shows true flashes of brilliant half court creation. They both seem to be fantastic in transition. TJ is ready now to contribute 20plus minutes but is still stuck as the 8th guy most likely. Why I think the team gives Dilly rope to start the year though is that we struggle greatly in half court sets when the defense ratchets up. That’s where Rob could become more useful as a cog if he can limit turnovers when it starts to matter. I don’t care about turnovers or assist totals in summer league.

That brings me to what I think is a huge pro in the column for Rob…his ability to consistently get the ball off the inbound and up court and into the initial set without turnovers…if anyone watched last years summer league for comparison (I watched a quarter from three different games) you’d notice immediatly the different level of compete on defense. Something happened in the regular season that the league took notice of(Defense winning a title). And I think the guys looking to crack a squad are trying to do so by being a defensive pest the entire time they are out there. Every single trip Dilly has had to take down the court off inbound has been full court pressed and doubled or double threatened at half court. That didn’t happen last summer. He has handled the pressure admirably.

That brings us to the second half of game four. Anyone wondering if he still has that spark he talks about trying to find go watch this half. Kid balled out and he didn’t need to play off ball to do it. He found open guys while driving and hit some big threes. He really pulled it all together there. Maybe it’s a flash in the pan but it also could be genuine hard work paying off. I really hope we sneak into the semis so he can get as much work as possible in this level of defensive pressure.

On a side note I think the league might wanna bring the foul out level back down to earth if we are gonna play this hard in D, free throw contests in July are tough to watch and really creates a strategically different game when guys just foul for the hell of it.

[Lipoli390]

Is that fair for the other 13 players on the team though... especially the veterans ready to win a title NOW. And is it fair to put Dillingham in that position?

Whether they're favorites to make the Finals or not... it is a back-to-back WCF team with almost everyone returning. The wolves have veterans all over ready to compete at that level again, from the old Conley to the aging Gobert to 30 year old Randle to young vets like Edwards and McDaniels who've played in a lot of playoff games over several years.

To compromise all of that for a development year for Dillingham seems misguided to me. And I don't think it should sit well for the players, coaches... or other fans either.

The team is built to win NOW. Risking it all for the development of a #8 draft pick who's not even close to a sure thing... yikes. The more I think about it... the more I think a move for a credible PG is part of the plan.



[Note: It's all moot IF Dillingham is legit. I'm talking about if he looks anything like the guy last year who wasn't even on the playoff roster most of the time.]

it’s not necessarily a binary analysis where he’s great so you play him or he’s terrible so you don’t. It’s unlikely he’ll be great next season although I think he can be great in a year or two. It’s its highly unlikely he’ll be terrible. His play will likely fall somewhere on a continuum and his playing time should and likely will reflect where he is on that continuum. It’s also likely that his playing will improve over the course of the season with playing time so it probably makes sense to give him more minutes than his play might otherwise warrant early in the season to help develop him into the player we’ll need down the stretch and in the playoffs. In that sense, it’s not much different from sitting vets to throughout the season to keep them fresh even though it often means losing some regular season games you might otherwise win.

And let’s not panic at the prospect of Dilly not developing as quickly this season as we’d like. The Wolves front office obviously contemplated that possibility, which is in part why they re-signed Randle and probably why the SL coaching staff had TSJ leading the offense so often in his three SL games. Ant typically plays the role MJ and Kobe used to play as a de facto PG. Having SGs like TSJ and Donte along with a playmaking PF like Randle could work just fine. We finished with 49 wins last season but we were much better than that the second half of the season after our guys had gained experience playing together and once Randle adjusted his approach upon returning from injury. We were a really good team without any contribution from Dilly and with minimal contributions from TSJ and Clark.

I do think there is merit to giving Dilly a little more leash that would otherwise be warranted for sake of facilitating his development beyond next season but I don’t think it will come down to that. I think he’ll get more time early in the season to facilitate his development for later in the season and that strikes me as the smart thing to do. I think we’ll find that Dilly helps our NBA Wolves win just as he’s helped the SL Wolves these past four games.

Agree with you here Lip. The answer can be "both", meaning he gets rope early in the season and every opportunity to be successful, but Finch can ultimately shorten the rotation if he's struggling down the stretch. We don't always have to play a pure PG. It's just that the OKC matchup magnified the issue as one guy after another had problems bringing the ball up or trying to put the ball on the floor.

The other thing is that for all of Dillingham's struggles, at the end of the day, he hasn't proven to be net negative when he does play. He had a positive net rating during the regular season last year (for a point of comparison, Josh Minott was a negative and he had the benefit of playing with the same team mates Rob had) and he's led the Summer League squad to a 4-0 record. He's not like "Hey, let's try playing Zach LaVine as a PG!" bad.

I think the disappointment is in the realization that his ceiling of second star next to Ant is still just a dream and not very close to reality. That's when I turn my thoughts to Terrence Shannon, Jr......

That’s exactly how my thinking has evolved. I loved it when we ended up with Dilly and TSJ last summer but at the time I was more excited about Dilly. I’m still excited about Dilly long term, but like you, my thoughts have turned to TSJ as the guy who might be that second star for the Wolves as early as next season. What Dilly will bring offensively is an another guy with the ball, other than Ant, who defenders have to worry about. Dilly has a great handle. He can score off the dribble from anywhere on the floor or blow by defenders attacking the basket. He’s also an excellent passer. We don’t have anyone else on the team who can do all those things offensively and as a result defenses have been able to key exclusively on Ant when he has the ball.

Dilly could eventually reach the same level as Darius Garland, D. Fox or Ja Morant but he doesn’t have to reach that level next season to be a positive for the NBA Wolves; he just has to do the things he’s does well fairly consistently and reduce his careless turnovers.

[cpg29]

it’s not necessarily a binary analysis where he’s great so you play him or he’s terrible so you don’t. It’s unlikely he’ll be great next season although I think he can be great in a year or two. It’s its highly unlikely he’ll be terrible. His play will likely fall somewhere on a continuum and his playing time should and likely will reflect where he is on that continuum. It’s also likely that his playing will improve over the course of the season with playing time so it probably makes sense to give him more minutes than his play might otherwise warrant early in the season to help develop him into the player we’ll need down the stretch and in the playoffs. In that sense, it’s not much different from sitting vets to throughout the season to keep them fresh even though it often means losing some regular season games you might otherwise win.

And let’s not panic at the prospect of Dilly not developing as quickly this season as we’d like. The Wolves front office obviously contemplated that possibility, which is in part why they re-signed Randle and probably why the SL coaching staff had TSJ leading the offense so often in his three SL games. Ant typically plays the role MJ and Kobe used to play as a de facto PG. Having SGs like TSJ and Donte along with a playmaking PF like Randle could work just fine. We finished with 49 wins last season but we were much better than that the second half of the season after our guys had gained experience playing together and once Randle adjusted his approach upon returning from injury. We were a really good team without any contribution from Dilly and with minimal contributions from TSJ and Clark.

I do think there is merit to giving Dilly a little more leash that would otherwise be warranted for sake of facilitating his development beyond next season but I don’t think it will come down to that. I think he’ll get more time early in the season to facilitate his development for later in the season and that strikes me as the smart thing to do. I think we’ll find that Dilly helps our NBA Wolves win just as he’s helped the SL Wolves these past four games.

Agree with you here Lip. The answer can be "both", meaning he gets rope early in the season and every opportunity to be successful, but Finch can ultimately shorten the rotation if he's struggling down the stretch. We don't always have to play a pure PG. It's just that the OKC matchup magnified the issue as one guy after another had problems bringing the ball up or trying to put the ball on the floor.

The other thing is that for all of Dillingham's struggles, at the end of the day, he hasn't proven to be net negative when he does play. He had a positive net rating during the regular season last year (for a point of comparison, Josh Minott was a negative and he had the benefit of playing with the same team mates Rob had) and he's led the Summer League squad to a 4-0 record. He's not like "Hey, let's try playing Zach LaVine as a PG!" bad.

I think the disappointment is in the realization that his ceiling of second star next to Ant is still just a dream and not very close to reality. That's when I turn my thoughts to Terrence Shannon, Jr......

That’s exactly how my thinking has evolved. I loved it when we ended up with Dilly and TSJ last summer but at the time I was more excited about Dilly. I’m still excited about Dilly long term, but like you, my thoughts have turned to TSJ as the guy who might be that second star for the Wolves as early as next season. What Dilly will bring offensively is an another guy with the ball, other than Ant, who defenders have to worry about. Dilly has a great handle. He can score off the dribble from anywhere on the floor or blow by defenders attacking the basket. He’s also an excellent passer. We don’t have anyone else on the team who can do all those things offensively and as a result defenses have been able to key exclusively on Ant when he has the ball.

Dilly could eventually reach the same level as Darius Garland, D. Fox or Ja Morant but he doesn’t have to reach that level next season to be a positive for the NBA Wolves; he just has to do the things he’s does well fairly consistently and reduce his careless turnovers.

I’m in a similar place with both of these guys. I was encouraged how Dilly played in game 4. He needs more reps to build his confidence. I’m hopeful the light will come on sooner than later.

Another reason to be optimistic about TSJ is what A-Rod said about him recently. He said TSJ shows up to the gym at 6:30am 7 days a week in the offseason. He’s hit 18,000 threes in the offseason already. Sounds like he has the work ethic along with talent to be the guy.

[Lipoli390]

Agree with you here Lip. The answer can be "both", meaning he gets rope early in the season and every opportunity to be successful, but Finch can ultimately shorten the rotation if he's struggling down the stretch. We don't always have to play a pure PG. It's just that the OKC matchup magnified the issue as one guy after another had problems bringing the ball up or trying to put the ball on the floor.

The other thing is that for all of Dillingham's struggles, at the end of the day, he hasn't proven to be net negative when he does play. He had a positive net rating during the regular season last year (for a point of comparison, Josh Minott was a negative and he had the benefit of playing with the same team mates Rob had) and he's led the Summer League squad to a 4-0 record. He's not like "Hey, let's try playing Zach LaVine as a PG!" bad.

I think the disappointment is in the realization that his ceiling of second star next to Ant is still just a dream and not very close to reality. That's when I turn my thoughts to Terrence Shannon, Jr......

That’s exactly how my thinking has evolved. I loved it when we ended up with Dilly and TSJ last summer but at the time I was more excited about Dilly. I’m still excited about Dilly long term, but like you, my thoughts have turned to TSJ as the guy who might be that second star for the Wolves as early as next season. What Dilly will bring offensively is an another guy with the ball, other than Ant, who defenders have to worry about. Dilly has a great handle. He can score off the dribble from anywhere on the floor or blow by defenders attacking the basket. He’s also an excellent passer. We don’t have anyone else on the team who can do all those things offensively and as a result defenses have been able to key exclusively on Ant when he has the ball.

Dilly could eventually reach the same level as Darius Garland, D. Fox or Ja Morant but he doesn’t have to reach that level next season to be a positive for the NBA Wolves; he just has to do the things he’s does well fairly consistently and reduce his careless turnovers.

I’m in a similar place with both of these guys. I was encouraged how Dilly played in game 4. He needs more reps to build his confidence. I’m hopeful the light will come on sooner than later.

Another reason to be optimistic about TSJ is what A-Rod said about him recently. He said TSJ shows up to the gym at 6:30am 7 days a week in the offseason. He’s hit 18,000 threes in the offseason already. Sounds like he has the work ethic along with talent to be the guy.

Interesting. I know TC has praised TJ’s work ethic but I hadn’t heard about TJ’s 6:30 a.m. 7-day practice regime. That’s really impressive. I’m more and more convinced that TJ will be special and become our Jalen Williams. We traded up to #8 for Dilly who i still am very high on, but I think TJ was last year’s draft gem for the Wolves. TJ’s draft stock was driven down by a combination of his age and the unfounded criminal prosecution against him. As Isiah Thomas said a couple days ago, he thought TJ was a top 10 talent in last year’s draft. As TC said recently, we got lucky getting him.

[Monster]

That’s exactly how my thinking has evolved. I loved it when we ended up with Dilly and TSJ last summer but at the time I was more excited about Dilly. I’m still excited about Dilly long term, but like you, my thoughts have turned to TSJ as the guy who might be that second star for the Wolves as early as next season. What Dilly will bring offensively is an another guy with the ball, other than Ant, who defenders have to worry about. Dilly has a great handle. He can score off the dribble from anywhere on the floor or blow by defenders attacking the basket. He’s also an excellent passer. We don’t have anyone else on the team who can do all those things offensively and as a result defenses have been able to key exclusively on Ant when he has the ball.

Dilly could eventually reach the same level as Darius Garland, D. Fox or Ja Morant but he doesn’t have to reach that level next season to be a positive for the NBA Wolves; he just has to do the things he’s does well fairly consistently and reduce his careless turnovers.

I’m in a similar place with both of these guys. I was encouraged how Dilly played in game 4. He needs more reps to build his confidence. I’m hopeful the light will come on sooner than later.

Another reason to be optimistic about TSJ is what A-Rod said about him recently. He said TSJ shows up to the gym at 6:30am 7 days a week in the offseason. He’s hit 18,000 threes in the offseason already. Sounds like he has the work ethic along with talent to be the guy.

Interesting. I know TC has praised TJ’s work ethic but I hadn’t heard about TJ’s 6:30 a.m. 7-day practice regime. That’s really impressive. I’m more and more convinced that TJ will be special and become our Jalen Williams. We traded up to #8 for Dilly who i still am very high on, but I think TJ was last year’s draft gem for the Wolves. TJ’s draft stock was driven down by a combination of his age and the unfounded criminal prosecution against him. As Isiah Thomas said a couple days ago, he thought TJ was a top 10 talent in last year’s draft. As TC said recently, we got lucky getting him.

I didn't watch as many games down the stretch as many here but I think it's worth remembering Dillingham had injuries including the playoffs that kept him from having opportunities. In addition Clark played well enough to deserve minutes in the playoffs in his rookie season coming of an Achilles injury. In some ways there were some positive team developments that kept Dillingham from playing later in the season. If Clark doesn't emerge and Dillingham is healthy maybe he makes a couple rotation appearances in the playoffs. There was a legit logjam of perimeter players in the playoffs and that was even with Conley playing reduced minutes.

I'd rather have Dillingham show some level of promise as a defender which he has than him just lighting things up on offense and looking clueless and fragile on the other end. The biggest question most had about him in the draft and after he was picked was whether or not he could hold up on defense. That question obviously hasn't been answered but Dillingham has shown some IQ on that end and clearly putting in the effort. Just as a bit of a comparison Bailey has more experience and more length bit in SL Dillingham has shown more ability to be up into guys as a point of attack guy. He looks somewhere between Bailey and Newton in SL. Honestly he probably looks more like Newton than Bailey although he obviously has less length than either guy.

[Monster]

I'll also add that if you look back and remember Conley's career didn't exactly take off the first year or 2. He was a guy with reasonably high expectations considered where he was picked and the success OSU had his freshman season. It seems like he started playing better and well as Grizz when Hollins was the coach. Conley is a different type of player than Dillingham but still it took a while for him to hit his stride. I think there was some chatter about Conley being kind of a bust because he was just a decent PG.

[Q-is-here]

I'll also add that if you look back and remember Conley's career didn't exactly take off the first year or 2. He was a guy with reasonably high expectations considered where he was picked and the success OSU had his freshman season. It seems like he started playing better and well as Grizz when Hollins was the coach. Conley is a different type of player than Dillingham but still it took a while for him to hit his stride. I think there was some chatter about Conley being kind of a bust because he was just a decent PG.

You're absolutely right Monster. He wasn't very good his first two seasons, especially his first. And he was picked 4th in that draft, so expectations were indeed high. I think he started to really hit his stride in his 4th season. Darius Garland was similar except he really started to pop in his 3rd season. But his first two seasons were pretty rough as well.

Coming into the NBA young and short and being asked to play PG at the highest of levels is a tough hill to climb. I can be patient as a fan so long as progress is being made. Conley and Garland did show year over year progress from Year 1 to Year 2 even though they still weren't very good until Year 3 or later.

[Monster]

I'll also add that if you look back and remember Conley's career didn't exactly take off the first year or 2. He was a guy with reasonably high expectations considered where he was picked and the success OSU had his freshman season. It seems like he started playing better and well as Grizz when Hollins was the coach. Conley is a different type of player than Dillingham but still it took a while for him to hit his stride. I think there was some chatter about Conley being kind of a bust because he was just a decent PG.

You're absolutely right Monster. He wasn't very good his first two seasons, especially his first. And he was picked 4th in that draft, so expectations were indeed high. I think he started to really hit his stride in his 4th season. Darius Garland was similar except he really started to pop in his 3rd season. But his first two seasons were pretty rough as well.

Coming into the NBA young and short and being asked to play PG at the highest of levels is a tough hill to climb. I can be patient as a fan so long as progress is being made. Conley and Garland did show year over year progress from Year 1 to Year 2 even though they still weren't very good until Year 3 or later.

Remember Garland only played 5 games in college because of injury so it made sense he didn't hit the ground running year one etc. I thi K he had passing/PG potential but he didn't have much time to do that at a lower level like college before the NBA. Dillingham was a bench guy that played with other guys that made plays. He did play as an actual PG at times for UK but he wasn't the guy for 30+ mpg like some prospects. Reed Shepard was in a similar boat. Kinda wild.

[Lipoli390]

I'll also add that if you look back and remember Conley's career didn't exactly take off the first year or 2. He was a guy with reasonably high expectations considered where he was picked and the success OSU had his freshman season. It seems like he started playing better and well as Grizz when Hollins was the coach. Conley is a different type of player than Dillingham but still it took a while for him to hit his stride. I think there was some chatter about Conley being kind of a bust because he was just a decent PG.

You're absolutely right Monster. He wasn't very good his first two seasons, especially his first. And he was picked 4th in that draft, so expectations were indeed high. I think he started to really hit his stride in his 4th season. Darius Garland was similar except he really started to pop in his 3rd season. But his first two seasons were pretty rough as well.

Coming into the NBA young and short and being asked to play PG at the highest of levels is a tough hill to climb. I can be patient as a fan so long as progress is being made. Conley and Garland did show year over year progress from Year 1 to Year 2 even though they still weren't very good until Year 3 or later.

Remember Garland only played 5 games in college because of injury so it made sense he didn't hit the ground running year one etc. I thi K he had passing/PG potential but he didn't have much time to do that at a lower level like college before the NBA. Dillingham was a bench guy that played with other guys that made plays. He did play as an actual PG at times for UK but he wasn't the guy for 30+ mpg like some prospects. Reed Shepard was in a similar boat. Kinda wild.

Good comparisons. I think it takes time for any young prospect out of college to become a good NBA PG regardless of the player’s size. Conley is a great example for comparison to Dilly and not just because they were almost the same size coming out of college. Conley and Dilly both came out of college relying largely on their speed. I recall McHale telling a small group of us in a season ticket holder meeting that Conley was the fastest player with the ball he’d ever seen up to that point. We’ve seen the cagey, controlled veteran version of Conley, but he started out as a small PG relying on his speed and quickness. It takes a while to learn how to effectively harness that speed at the NBA level. Having Conley here to mentor Dilly is a huge plus for Dilly and the organization.

[Monster]

You're absolutely right Monster. He wasn't very good his first two seasons, especially his first. And he was picked 4th in that draft, so expectations were indeed high. I think he started to really hit his stride in his 4th season. Darius Garland was similar except he really started to pop in his 3rd season. But his first two seasons were pretty rough as well.

Coming into the NBA young and short and being asked to play PG at the highest of levels is a tough hill to climb. I can be patient as a fan so long as progress is being made. Conley and Garland did show year over year progress from Year 1 to Year 2 even though they still weren't very good until Year 3 or later.

Remember Garland only played 5 games in college because of injury so it made sense he didn't hit the ground running year one etc. I thi K he had passing/PG potential but he didn't have much time to do that at a lower level like college before the NBA. Dillingham was a bench guy that played with other guys that made plays. He did play as an actual PG at times for UK but he wasn't the guy for 30+ mpg like some prospects. Reed Shepard was in a similar boat. Kinda wild.

Good comparisons. I think it takes time for any young prospect out of college to become a good NBA PG regardless of the player’s size. Conley is a great example for comparison to Dilly and not just because they were almost the same size coming out of college. Conley and Dilly both came out of college relying largely on their speed. I recall McHale telling a small group of us in a season ticket holder meeting that Conley was the fastest player with the ball he’d ever seen up to that point. We’ve seen the cagey, controlled veteran version of Conley, but he started out as a small PG relying on his speed and quickness. It takes a while to learn how to effectively harness that speed at the NBA level. Having Conley here to mentor Dilly is a huge plus for Dilly and the organization.

It's worth remembering that Conley wasn't exactly a scorer his freshman year at Ohio state. He only shot the three at 30% that season. He took the 4th fewest FG attempts on the team. Of course when he was drafted there was still more value placed on pure pgs but he was drafted on potential of getting better offensively. I think Conley has scoring ability in him even now to some extent but he is such a team guy doing whatever is needed and is willing to fit in and that started back at Ohio State. It sounds cliche but Conley is just really good at doing winning things. And yes Lip that's good for Dillingham and plenty of other guards. It might not be a coincidence that Conley was around for NAW's improved play both in Utah and then with the Wolves. He might help other guys too.