A Mulligan of a Mulligan - Warriors at Wolves GDT

[D-Loser25]

I hope this team loses every game for the rest of the year.

[DNatagal]

Abe - Good post. The observation that caught my attention in particular was about Finch’s tight rotation: “The Wolves play tomorrow. And then 4 times in 5 days. And yet... Finch is still going with a 6-man lineup. (I'm not counting Conley or Bones because it's honestly like they're not even on the court.) I like Finch and I'm not in the camp to fire him. BUT... this bench thing is weird at this point. There's no reason to stick with the starters in this game this long unless...”

At the annual stakeholder meeting, Finch told us that the rotation would get tighter as the season progresses. He said that’s what teams do as they get closer to the playoffs. I think it’s crap. I think we have a head coach problem.

We need a new head coach and we need a couple players like Pat Bev and Vanderbilt per Q’s post. It may be too late to sell high on Randle, but let’s trade him now before his value declines more, which I believe it will. Recent events have been a huge downer for everyone, but this team has shown a remarkable and deplorable lack of effort and intensity in way too many games and far too many minutes of games throughout the season well before these recent non-basketball events. It should be obvious now if it wasn’t already that we’re not a Coby White or Tre Jones from championship contention. This team needs a revamp. I’ve included Jaden and Naz with Ant as my core to rebuild around, but right now I’m thinking Ant, Donte, Beringer and Rocco. I don’t like Donte’s inconsistency, but he provides consistent effort and intensity and he does a lot of the little things that win games if others take care of the big things. I’d still keep Rob and Shannon because I still see both becoming really good players.

I’d start the re-tool by trading Randle to a win-now team in exchange for young talent then go from there. We probably ought to tank the rest of the season since this is one of those rare years when we’ll have a 1st round pick. Utah has swap rights but even tanking won’t result in a worse record than Utah’s. Honestly, I don’t really want to tank, but let’s play the young guys with Ant, Jaden, Naz, Donte and Rudy then see where the chips fall.

Would it even be tanking if the younger players actually play hard?

[FNG]

Timberwolves still 3 games better this year than last year at this point and the second best start through 46 games under Finch. It’s been bad basketball lately but just providing the context.

Yeah, all true. I'll also point out that both OkC and the Spurs were favored at home last night too, but lost...Spurs to the hapless Pelicans. Doesn't make me feel much better after such a terrible game yesterday, but it's helpful to see teams ahead of us lose. The Wolves are at a turning point of their season right now, and my optimism level is pretty low. But we know how talented this team is, and it wouldn't shock me to see them turn things around and go on a winning streak. But they need to turn it around soon or risk torpedoing the season.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe - Good post. The observation that caught my attention in particular was about Finch’s tight rotation: “The Wolves play tomorrow. And then 4 times in 5 days. And yet... Finch is still going with a 6-man lineup. (I'm not counting Conley or Bones because it's honestly like they're not even on the court.) I like Finch and I'm not in the camp to fire him. BUT... this bench thing is weird at this point. There's no reason to stick with the starters in this game this long unless...”

At the annual stakeholder meeting, Finch told us that the rotation would get tighter as the season progresses. He said that’s what teams do as they get closer to the playoffs. I think it’s crap. I think we have a head coach problem.

We need a new head coach and we need a couple players like Pat Bev and Vanderbilt per Q’s post. It may be too late to sell high on Randle, but let’s trade him now before his value declines more, which I believe it will. Recent events have been a huge downer for everyone, but this team has shown a remarkable and deplorable lack of effort and intensity in way too many games and far too many minutes of games throughout the season well before these recent non-basketball events. It should be obvious now if it wasn’t already that we’re not a Coby White or Tre Jones from championship contention. This team needs a revamp. I’ve included Jaden and Naz with Ant as my core to rebuild around, but right now I’m thinking Ant, Donte, Beringer and Rocco. I don’t like Donte’s inconsistency, but he provides consistent effort and intensity and he does a lot of the little things that win games if others take care of the big things. I’d still keep Rob and Shannon because I still see both becoming really good players.

I’d start the re-tool by trading Randle to a win-now team in exchange for young talent then go from there. We probably ought to tank the rest of the season since this is one of those rare years when we’ll have a 1st round pick. Utah has swap rights but even tanking won’t result in a worse record than Utah’s. Honestly, I don’t really want to tank, but let’s play the young guys with Ant, Jaden, Naz, Donte and Rudy then see where the chips fall.

After watching the Wolves be a terrible team often. The WORST team often...

I'm hesitant to blow it up over a rough 5-game stretch. As a Wolves fan (much like you) who has watched and followed and rooted for this team most of his life from the opening game in 1989, I know how fleeting just making the playoffs or even being competitive can be.

I balk at blowing up largely the same team that went to back-to-back WCF to play young unproven players:

- TJ Shannon is 25 years old and averages 4.4 ppg in his career with middling efficiency. He regressed this season.
- Rob Dillingham has gotten progressively worse in his second year in the league. He's shooting below 34% from the floor. I'm convinced the only reason he's still on the team is because nobody else wants him anywhere close to the price the Wolves paid to get him. He's arguably been the worst player in the NBA this season with more than 300 minutes.
- Rocco Zikarsky was the 45th pick in the draft. He's a project.
- Johnny Juzang is a journeyman.
- Jaylen Clark is a limited minutes defensive specialist. His defense has been great, but his shooting has regressed to what was sorta expected from him.
- Juan Beringer was drafted outside the lottery because he's a project. He's not ready for big NBA minutes (although I'm really excited about his potential).

The Wolves also don't have much help coming in the draft. We're looking at some lean years if this current squad doesn't work out. In part because the Wolves have some guys getting up there in age. But mostly, NONE of the young guys is anything remotely close to a sure thing. And when I say "sure thing" I'm talking about NBA starter level. NONE of the young guys are sure things for that, not even Beringer although most of us are optimistic about his chances.

The other guys? Every one of them... they're just guys. Just random below average to really bad NBA players right now. And some of them are older than prospects on other teams.

Despite the obvious problem we all have with the core 6 of this team... it's obvious the lack of effort is a problem... there is no easy way out of this. And those core 6 players are the team's only chance at any sort of success.

All because the young guys are really THAT bad. We can blame how bad they are on the coaching staff for not developing them more. That's fair and justified. But, I don't get upset most nights for them not playing simply because they're not good.

The bench is why this team is only 27 - 19. This can be proven with statistics.

I'd recommend anyone championing the Wolves young players to look at other teams around the league. Heck, Will Richard from GSW is a good example. He's a rookie... the 56th pick in the draft. One could look at it like "Hey, Kerr gave him a chance. See what he's doing!" Or, we can look at the facts... he's shooting 48/37/81 and is a plus player when on the court. Other young players on GSW with + VORP include Gui Santos, Pat Spencer, Trayce Jackson-Davis. ALL OF THEM ARE POSITIVE. They've earned their spots in the rotation.

Conversely:

Jaylen Clark -0.1
TJ Shannon -0.3
Rob Dillingham -0.5
Leonard Miller -0.1
Juan Beringer +0.1

Heck, I think part of the malaise that defines this team might just be that every guy in the top 6 (or even 8) knows that they have proven to be infinitely better basketball players than their backups. Nobody is pushing anyone for playing time. Nobody on that bench has EARNED more minutes (sans Beringer). But he's still clearly the 4th best player for only 2 spots.

I say go for wins now. Because the future might not be as bright as we might want to believe.



[Note: All that being said... last night was a perfect opportunity to give the young guys more run because it was obvious the starters didn't have it, there was no chance to win the game, and the Wolves have 4 games in 5 nights. There was no excuse that I can think of to wait until the final 5 minutes to play some of the young guys.]

[rapsuperstar31]

Abe - Good post. The observation that caught my attention in particular was about Finch’s tight rotation: “The Wolves play tomorrow. And then 4 times in 5 days. And yet... Finch is still going with a 6-man lineup. (I'm not counting Conley or Bones because it's honestly like they're not even on the court.) I like Finch and I'm not in the camp to fire him. BUT... this bench thing is weird at this point. There's no reason to stick with the starters in this game this long unless...”

At the annual stakeholder meeting, Finch told us that the rotation would get tighter as the season progresses. He said that’s what teams do as they get closer to the playoffs. I think it’s crap. I think we have a head coach problem.

We need a new head coach and we need a couple players like Pat Bev and Vanderbilt per Q’s post. It may be too late to sell high on Randle, but let’s trade him now before his value declines more, which I believe it will. Recent events have been a huge downer for everyone, but this team has shown a remarkable and deplorable lack of effort and intensity in way too many games and far too many minutes of games throughout the season well before these recent non-basketball events. It should be obvious now if it wasn’t already that we’re not a Coby White or Tre Jones from championship contention. This team needs a revamp. I’ve included Jaden and Naz with Ant as my core to rebuild around, but right now I’m thinking Ant, Donte, Beringer and Rocco. I don’t like Donte’s inconsistency, but he provides consistent effort and intensity and he does a lot of the little things that win games if others take care of the big things. I’d still keep Rob and Shannon because I still see both becoming really good players.

I’d start the re-tool by trading Randle to a win-now team in exchange for young talent then go from there. We probably ought to tank the rest of the season since this is one of those rare years when we’ll have a 1st round pick. Utah has swap rights but even tanking won’t result in a worse record than Utah’s. Honestly, I don’t really want to tank, but let’s play the young guys with Ant, Jaden, Naz, Donte and Rudy then see where the chips fall.

I mean Phoenix getting rid of an all time scorer in Durant along with Beal while basically adding a tough enforcer in Brooks has done wonders for Phoenix. Clark is probably too nice to become that bad guy enforcer, but we could use someone like that. Someone the crowd loves to boo.

[AussieWolf3]

Well I finished the 1st half and I really wonder what went sideways in the 2nd half because the story of the first half is that when they didn't turn it over they played plus basketball.
Not their best but good enough to win.
Again folk are dogging Edwards for poor effort on defense and that just wasn't the case. I think the only score I saw him give up was a post up by Harford, that was actually a good rep by Edwards considering the size difference.

The half court offense was discombobulated and completely out of sync, but the half court defense was effective they just gave up too many easy points due to turnovers.

I personally have a hard time judging the whole "energy" or "intensity" thing because people just emote differently and it's really hard to read that type of stuff through the screen

I'm not saying they played well or with good energy, far from it, but I just don't think the answer is as simple as, "these guys just don't get up for games"

[Q-is-here]

Abe - Good post. The observation that caught my attention in particular was about Finch’s tight rotation: “The Wolves play tomorrow. And then 4 times in 5 days. And yet... Finch is still going with a 6-man lineup. (I'm not counting Conley or Bones because it's honestly like they're not even on the court.) I like Finch and I'm not in the camp to fire him. BUT... this bench thing is weird at this point. There's no reason to stick with the starters in this game this long unless...”

At the annual stakeholder meeting, Finch told us that the rotation would get tighter as the season progresses. He said that’s what teams do as they get closer to the playoffs. I think it’s crap. I think we have a head coach problem.

We need a new head coach and we need a couple players like Pat Bev and Vanderbilt per Q’s post. It may be too late to sell high on Randle, but let’s trade him now before his value declines more, which I believe it will. Recent events have been a huge downer for everyone, but this team has shown a remarkable and deplorable lack of effort and intensity in way too many games and far too many minutes of games throughout the season well before these recent non-basketball events. It should be obvious now if it wasn’t already that we’re not a Coby White or Tre Jones from championship contention. This team needs a revamp. I’ve included Jaden and Naz with Ant as my core to rebuild around, but right now I’m thinking Ant, Donte, Beringer and Rocco. I don’t like Donte’s inconsistency, but he provides consistent effort and intensity and he does a lot of the little things that win games if others take care of the big things. I’d still keep Rob and Shannon because I still see both becoming really good players.

I’d start the re-tool by trading Randle to a win-now team in exchange for young talent then go from there. We probably ought to tank the rest of the season since this is one of those rare years when we’ll have a 1st round pick. Utah has swap rights but even tanking won’t result in a worse record than Utah’s. Honestly, I don’t really want to tank, but let’s play the young guys with Ant, Jaden, Naz, Donte and Rudy then see where the chips fall.

After watching the Wolves be a terrible team often. The WORST team often...

I'm hesitant to blow it up over a rough 5-game stretch. As a Wolves fan (much like you) who has watched and followed and rooted for this team most of his life from the opening game in 1989, I know how fleeting just making the playoffs or even being competitive can be.

I balk at blowing up largely the same team that went to back-to-back WCF to play young unproven players:

- TJ Shannon is 25 years old and averages 4.4 ppg in his career with middling efficiency. He regressed this season.
- Rob Dillingham has gotten progressively worse in his second year in the league. He's shooting below 34% from the floor. I'm convinced the only reason he's still on the team is because nobody else wants him anywhere close to the price the Wolves paid to get him. He's arguably been the worst player in the NBA this season with more than 300 minutes.
- Rocco Zikarsky was the 45th pick in the draft. He's a project.
- Johnny Juzang is a journeyman.
- Jaylen Clark is a limited minutes defensive specialist. His defense has been great, but his shooting has regressed to what was sorta expected from him.
- Juan Beringer was drafted outside the lottery because he's a project. He's not ready for big NBA minutes (although I'm really excited about his potential).

The Wolves also don't have much help coming in the draft. We're looking at some lean years if this current squad doesn't work out. In part because the Wolves have some guys getting up there in age. But mostly, NONE of the young guys is anything remotely close to a sure thing. And when I say "sure thing" I'm talking about NBA starter level. NONE of the young guys are sure things for that, not even Beringer although most of us are optimistic about his chances.

The other guys? Every one of them... they're just guys. Just random below average to really bad NBA players right now. And some of them are older than prospects on other teams.

Despite the obvious problem we all have with the core 6 of this team... it's obvious the lack of effort is a problem... there is no easy way out of this. And those core 6 players are the team's only chance at any sort of success.

All because the young guys are really THAT bad. We can blame how bad they are on the coaching staff for not developing them more. That's fair and justified. But, I don't get upset most nights for them not playing simply because they're not good.

The bench is why this team is only 27 - 19. This can be proven with statistics.

I'd recommend anyone championing the Wolves young players to look at other teams around the league. Heck, Will Richard from GSW is a good example. He's a rookie... the 56th pick in the draft. One could look at it like "Hey, Kerr gave him a chance. See what he's doing!" Or, we can look at the facts... he's shooting 48/37/81 and is a plus player when on the court. Other young players on GSW with + VORP include Gui Santos, Pat Spencer, Trayce Jackson-Davis. ALL OF THEM ARE POSITIVE. They've earned their spots in the rotation.

Conversely:

Jaylen Clark -0.1
TJ Shannon -0.3
Rob Dillingham -0.5
Leonard Miller -0.1
Juan Beringer +0.1

Heck, I think part of the malaise that defines this team might just be that every guy in the top 6 (or even 8) knows that they have proven to be infinitely better basketball players than their backups. Nobody is pushing anyone for playing time. Nobody on that bench has EARNED more minutes (sans Beringer). But he's still clearly the 4th best player for only 2 spots.

I say go for wins now. Because the future might not be as bright as we might want to believe.



[Note: All that being said... last night was a perfect opportunity to give the young guys more run because it was obvious the starters didn't have it, there was no chance to win the game, and the Wolves have 4 games in 5 nights. There was no excuse that I can think of to wait until the final 5 minutes to play some of the young guys.]

Minutes/rotation/contract security + Dog days of the season + miserable cold + ICE/anti-ICE distractions = Malaise.

Not making excuses but it's the only way I can rationalize an otherwise healthy team falling off a cliff like this. They need to dig their way out of it and as Kek metioned, all things considered, it STILL isn't that bad when you look at the big picture. They have time.