Wolves Trade #1

[Monster]

MONSTER!!

I thought we lost you. It took a potential Giannis trade to pull you out of the woodwork?!?

It's not about Giannis it's about Mike Conley.

[Phenom]

Jake Fischer on Giannis to Minnesota rumors:

“He is very much focused on the story and the arch of his career. That has been very apparent…. Talking to people around Giannis he cares about the narrative structure of his next situation just as much as his exit from MIL…. Joining young superstar in Anthony Edwards and helping the Wolves get past the WCF after two straight trips and a long window working with him and creating history in Minnesota they have not achieved would certainly be a major storyline… You’re not going to have a 5/6 year window competing for a title in Golden State with Steph like you theoretically would next to Ant in MIN, next to Brunson in NYK, next to Bam Adebayo in Miami”

Like I said the other day, this isn't my son's father's Timberwolves anymore.

[Monster]

Not sure how I feel about a Randle for Harden trade. My gut screams "NO!" but if you squint, I can see the logic.

On one hand, it makes sense. We've basically got two starting PFs and no legit PGs. Randle for Harden essentially balances out that problem.

Their on-court offensive production is pretty similar, though obviously, Harden initiates and runs the offense more. That could be a problem alongside Ant, though it's worth remembering that Harden has a lower usage than Ant and Giannis has a higher one. I can see Ant and basically everyone on the team benefitting from playing off the ball with Harden finding them for shots. Ant, Naz, Donte, and Jaden will get a bunch of catch-and-shoot opportunities. And frankly, Harden should be fairly well-suited to throw lobs to Rudy.

The decision whether to trade for Harden is kind of a question about how much we like the idea of Ant and Randle more or less running the offense. Personally, I think they're both pretty good, but if we honestly think Ant isn't quite completely suited for running the point, I can see the logic behind getting a guy like Harden.

Where things really break down for me is about the defense and team culture. For all his faults, Randle did step up as a defender when it mattered, including during the playoffs, and his defense on Wembley looked pretty good earlier this year. And while he's kind of a prickly personality, he seems pretty locked in much of the time. With Harden, I think you're going to have to cover for him a lot on defense and we'll be scrambling to contain penetration. And there's a question of how he'd fit in with the culture on the team or whether he'd just make things awkward. I'd really worry about that.

In terms of balancing the roster and avoiding having to trade away too much, I can see the logic behind trying to get Harden if Giannis isn't going to happen (which it looks like it isn't until this next summer). We wouldn't have to give everything up, so we'd still have a contender now. If we were able to get Giannis, but had to trade away basically everything to get him, I'd be a bit nervous about how everything would work out. Harden is older than Julius, but he does seem to have the kind of "old man" game that should last a couple more years.

All in all, I don't know about Harden. It actually seems more feasible (at least on offense) than when I first thought about it. But I'd worry about his locker room presence and his defense.

Yeah Harden would bring shooting and playmaking this team hasn't seen as a combo in for sure a long time. There are plenty of other questions though not to mention does he stay past this season. Still if it was basically Harden for Randle...that's something to seriously consider even though I have reservations about Harden even though I've always been a fan of his talent. Also in terms of PF there might be some options to fill in that spot with a competent rotation player like maybe even Kyle Anderson.

[AussieWolf3]

Hard to understand this move in light of the de facto no trade clause.

Either way, it sucks to see Mike go even if his time as an impact player was over

[Q-is-here]

Not sure how I feel about a Randle for Harden trade. My gut screams "NO!" but if you squint, I can see the logic.

On one hand, it makes sense. We've basically got two starting PFs and no legit PGs. Randle for Harden essentially balances out that problem.

Their on-court offensive production is pretty similar, though obviously, Harden initiates and runs the offense more. That could be a problem alongside Ant, though it's worth remembering that Harden has a lower usage than Ant and Giannis has a higher one. I can see Ant and basically everyone on the team benefitting from playing off the ball with Harden finding them for shots. Ant, Naz, Donte, and Jaden will get a bunch of catch-and-shoot opportunities. And frankly, Harden should be fairly well-suited to throw lobs to Rudy.

The decision whether to trade for Harden is kind of a question about how much we like the idea of Ant and Randle more or less running the offense. Personally, I think they're both pretty good, but if we honestly think Ant isn't quite completely suited for running the point, I can see the logic behind getting a guy like Harden.

Where things really break down for me is about the defense and team culture. For all his faults, Randle did step up as a defender when it mattered, including during the playoffs, and his defense on Wembley looked pretty good earlier this year. And while he's kind of a prickly personality, he seems pretty locked in much of the time. With Harden, I think you're going to have to cover for him a lot on defense and we'll be scrambling to contain penetration. And there's a question of how he'd fit in with the culture on the team or whether he'd just make things awkward. I'd really worry about that.

In terms of balancing the roster and avoiding having to trade away too much, I can see the logic behind trying to get Harden if Giannis isn't going to happen (which it looks like it isn't until this next summer). We wouldn't have to give everything up, so we'd still have a contender now. If we were able to get Giannis, but had to trade away basically everything to get him, I'd be a bit nervous about how everything would work out. Harden is older than Julius, but he does seem to have the kind of "old man" game that should last a couple more years.

All in all, I don't know about Harden. It actually seems more feasible (at least on offense) than when I first thought about it. But I'd worry about his locker room presence and his defense.

Yeah Harden would bring shooting and playmaking this team hasn't seen as a combo in for sure a long time. There are plenty of other questions though not to mention does he stay past this season. Still if it was basically Harden for Randle...that's something to seriously consider even though I have reservations about Harden even though I've always been a fan of his talent. Also in terms of PF there might be some options to fill in that spot with a competent rotation player like maybe even Kyle Anderson.

Welcome back Monster!

I believe one of the reasons Harden wants out of LA is because they haven't committed to re-sign him when his current deal is up next season, so he wants a team that will commit to him for a few years. He also can veto any trade. So unless Minnesota is willing to sign him to an extension eventually, he won't be coming here.

[Mnwild1128]

Even tho i do not like Harden the person, if he came here i would be ok signing him to a 2 + 1 team option extension. 3 years 105 million. Descending salary. 37 then 35 then 33. 15 million guaranteed on year 3 team option. Makes him at least more palatable and tradeable at that end year if needed.

I do believe we can take both Harden and Giannis on this deadline. Either Randle, Garland or Moron to Clippers. With Donte, Dillingham, plus someone else going to Cavs or Grizzlies. Either Naz or a player from one of those other teams. Like Kuzma, Portis, Bogdanovich. Something akin to this.

Too bad Bucks would not want Randle and Ja Moron cause in my opinion that would this trade super easier to complete and stomach for our depth.

[Monster]

Not sure how I feel about a Randle for Harden trade. My gut screams "NO!" but if you squint, I can see the logic.

On one hand, it makes sense. We've basically got two starting PFs and no legit PGs. Randle for Harden essentially balances out that problem.

Their on-court offensive production is pretty similar, though obviously, Harden initiates and runs the offense more. That could be a problem alongside Ant, though it's worth remembering that Harden has a lower usage than Ant and Giannis has a higher one. I can see Ant and basically everyone on the team benefitting from playing off the ball with Harden finding them for shots. Ant, Naz, Donte, and Jaden will get a bunch of catch-and-shoot opportunities. And frankly, Harden should be fairly well-suited to throw lobs to Rudy.

The decision whether to trade for Harden is kind of a question about how much we like the idea of Ant and Randle more or less running the offense. Personally, I think they're both pretty good, but if we honestly think Ant isn't quite completely suited for running the point, I can see the logic behind getting a guy like Harden.

Where things really break down for me is about the defense and team culture. For all his faults, Randle did step up as a defender when it mattered, including during the playoffs, and his defense on Wembley looked pretty good earlier this year. And while he's kind of a prickly personality, he seems pretty locked in much of the time. With Harden, I think you're going to have to cover for him a lot on defense and we'll be scrambling to contain penetration. And there's a question of how he'd fit in with the culture on the team or whether he'd just make things awkward. I'd really worry about that.

In terms of balancing the roster and avoiding having to trade away too much, I can see the logic behind trying to get Harden if Giannis isn't going to happen (which it looks like it isn't until this next summer). We wouldn't have to give everything up, so we'd still have a contender now. If we were able to get Giannis, but had to trade away basically everything to get him, I'd be a bit nervous about how everything would work out. Harden is older than Julius, but he does seem to have the kind of "old man" game that should last a couple more years.

All in all, I don't know about Harden. It actually seems more feasible (at least on offense) than when I first thought about it. But I'd worry about his locker room presence and his defense.

Yeah Harden would bring shooting and playmaking this team hasn't seen as a combo in for sure a long time. There are plenty of other questions though not to mention does he stay past this season. Still if it was basically Harden for Randle...that's something to seriously consider even though I have reservations about Harden even though I've always been a fan of his talent. Also in terms of PF there might be some options to fill in that spot with a competent rotation player like maybe even Kyle Anderson.

Welcome back Monster!

I believe one of the reasons Harden wants out of LA is because they haven't committed to re-sign him when his current deal is up next season, so he wants a team that will commit to him for a few years. He also can veto any trade. So unless Minnesota is willing to sign him to an extension eventually, he won't be coming here.

So it's basically a Jimmy Butler type thing? Yeah pass. I just don't trust Harden.

I wonder if Connelly has some other guard he is looking at that we didn't even consider would be available. Who saw Jaren Jackson Jr going to the Jazz? I don't think the Wolves have to add a guard that's an actual PG even adding a guy that's a pretty good rotation type player like Donte with the right skill set would make a pretty big difference. Idk who that guy is but it will be interesting to see what Connelly can pull off.

[60WinTim]

I believe this is a 1st apron issue that TC needs to navigate: If the Wolves make a transaction that puts them back over the 1st apron, they become hard capped, which means they can no longer add additional salary, such as signing a buyout player. So, if the Wolves "big trade" puts them over the 1st apron, they need to have consummated any other deals that add salary before the "big trade".

Or, at least that is my understanding.

[Mnwild1128]

I believe this is a 1st apron issue that TC needs to navigate: If the Wolves make a transaction that puts them back over the 1st apron, they become hard capped, which means they can no longer add additional salary, such as signing a buyout player. So, if the Wolves "big trade" puts them over the 1st apron, they need to have consummated any other deals that add salary before the "big trade".

Or, at least that is my understanding.

1. Cannot sign a player waived during the regular season if their previous salary exceeded the non-taxpayer MLE ($14.1M).

2. Restricted to using the Taxpayer MLE ($5.7M) only.

3. Cannot take back more salary than is sent out (100% matching or less).

4. Inability to acquire a player via a sign-and-trade.

5. The team cannot exceed the first apron ($195,945,000 for 2025-26) under any circumstances.

[60WinTim]

I believe this is a 1st apron issue that TC needs to navigate: If the Wolves make a transaction that puts them back over the 1st apron, they become hard capped, which means they can no longer add additional salary, such as signing a buyout player. So, if the Wolves "big trade" puts them over the 1st apron, they need to have consummated any other deals that add salary before the "big trade".

Or, at least that is my understanding.

1. Cannot sign a player waived during the regular season if their previous salary exceeded the non-taxpayer MLE ($14.1M).

2. Restricted to using the Taxpayer MLE ($5.7M) only.

3. Cannot take back more salary than is sent out (100% matching or less).

4. Inability to acquire a player via a sign-and-trade.

5. The team cannot exceed the first apron ($195,945,000 for 2025-26) under any circumstances.

It's not a function of the apron restrictions. It is called being "hard-capped", which can happen regardless of which apron a team is in. Trading for a player, or signing a player with MLE, with the resulting transaction putting the team in the 1st (or 2nd) apron makes the team hard-capped. They cannot add any salary beyond their current level.