Rob Dillingham and Leonard Miller or draft assets?

[Monster]

The dust has settled a little after the trade deadline and while both Dillingham and Miller ended up not being players that helped this roster on the court while being here despite their talent and upside when drafted. That's not great considering the Wolves gave up some draft capital to the Spurs each time to get these guys.

What was the better option keep those draft picks for later or use them to acquire a player or? I think to some extent I'd rather try and get a young player that you hope can turn into something. It's not always gonna work like Dillingham or Leonard but maybe Joan will hit.

Meanwhile the Wolves did trade Dillingham and Miller to acquire 2 players in Ayo and Julian Phillips who was taken a couple picks after Miller. I'm gonna take a wild guess/speculation that Dillingham still had the value of a late first still. Miller? Probably a random 2nd. I'd guess that Ayo was in fairly high demand with low salary this year making him easier to deal for than some players. Ultimately the Wolves traded a boatload of 2nds and an unprotected first and a pick swap for Ayo and Phillips. That may sound like a lot but we have seen some valuable 2 way players go for that kind of package in the past. That pick swap to me seems likely to be mostly irrelevant but of course you never know just like the unprotected pick.

Connelly isn't hitting on every pick and neither did the guy that's built what might be a dynasty in OKC. What Connelly does do (Presti also) is find ways to give himself options in case he does make a misstep and Connelly has found some ways to do that this year. Bones looks like a smart FA signing when many of us were wondering about possible better options some costing more money. He drafted 2 centers giving 2 options at that spot. Connelly deserves some criticism for some of the Wolves draft picks but I like that he has been aggressive in looking to shape the roster. He seems to recognize issues with he roster and looks to find ways to improve it. He also has found ways to get something out of players leaving (some of those 2nds were in the Ayo deal) and has always been willing to trade guys even if they were a guy he picked and he even really likes. I'm looking forward to seeing what this roster can achieve with Ayo. I think Phillips brings a depth player at least in theory this roster has needed for a couple years. What will be the next young player Connelly decides to roll the dice on and what position will they play? Will TSJ be able to stay healthy?

I'll also admit I was wrong on Dillingham and Miller so far. I liked both picks. I also liked the Jaylen Clark pick in the draft they took Miller. That pick doesn't look as good recently but I'm guessing Clark will be in the league for a while.

[Q-is-here]

It can really take a while to assess draft picks. And coaching factors into their post-draft development, so if a guy like Finch isn't playing Miller or Dillingham, is it because Connelly messed up or is Finch being a stubborn SOB with a double-standard on player accountability?

This is where the passing of time comes into play. As players drafted by Connelly that don't find success with the Wolves move on/get traded we can see how they do under a different coaching/player development regime.

But as of today, I'm placing far more blame on Connelly than Finch for what is amounting to a very mediocre draft record (at least with the Wolves).

[60WinTim]

Ayo has had a really good season thus far. He is destined for a nice payday this offseason as an unrestricted FA. Chicago was asking for a first round pick for Ayo. Either no one else was offering a 1st round pick, or the Bulls decided a slightly used lottery pick and 4 second rounders was better than whatever 1st rounder they could have received elsewhere.

The Wolves gave up on a player drafted #8 in 2024, the cost for the Wolves is really just the Wolves 2031 first round pick. The pick swap is likely to not be very impactful. So, Ayo cost the Wolves their 2031 first round pick and 4 second rounders, plus they received a potential upgrade to Leonard Miller.

Considering the fit Ayo represents for the Wolves, it was a damn nice recovery by TC. Of course, he needs to retain Ayo this offseason...

[Wolvesfan21]

It can really take a while to assess draft picks. And coaching factors into their post-draft development, so if a guy like Finch isn't playing Miller or Dillingham, is it because Connelly messed up or is Finch being a stubborn SOB with a double-standard on player accountability?

This is where the passing of time comes into play. As players drafted by Connelly that don't find success with the Wolves move on/get traded we can see how they do under a different coaching/player development regime.

But as of today, I'm placing far more blame on Connelly than Finch for what is amounting to a very mediocre draft record (at least with the Wolves).

To be fair to Finch when given meaningful minutes Dilly basically sucked ass. Meanwhile a guy like Ant who was 99% developed by Finch and staff (Finchy was hired midway during rookie year do we ignore Ants development by Finch for some reason?) seems to be doing OK.

[Lipoli390]

I think the jury’s still out on TC’s draft track record with the Wolves. I’ll first note that, with the exception of Dillingham, TC’s picks have all been in the bottom half of the 1st round or the 2nd round. With that context, Moore has been the only obviously terrible pick so far. Walker Kessler is looking like a darn good later first round pick. While TC didn’t “draft” Luka Garza, he did pick him up as an undrafted free agent and Luka’s looking very good with the Celtics.

Miller has been dominant in the G-League but just hasn’t had a meaningful opportunity in the NBA. Minott never had a meaningful NBA opportunity here but looked pretty decent with the Celtics. Remember he was a mid 2nd round pick. Shannon looked terrific last season before running into an injury issue this season. Clark has looked pretty good. Again, he was a late 2nd round pick.

Back to Dillingham. Honestly, he never had a meaningful opportunity to show what he can do at the NBA level much less develop his game. That’s on Finch, although I get it given that we’re competing for a championship and Dilly is barely 21 years old with only a year of college ball under his belt. At his latest press conference Finch acknowledged that he couldn’t find the minutes for Dilly while competing for a championship - i.e., Dilly wasn’t a good match for this team’s circumstances. To me, that’s on both TC and Finch. TC knew we’re competing for a championship yet he traded up for a 19-year old PG with only one year of college ball. That doesn’t compute. But having made the decision to draft Dilly, TC and the coaching staff should be on the same page and Finch should have found more minutes for him, especially given how terrible Conley has been this season. Finch also said at his last presser that “perhaps I need to do a better job of playing the younger guys.” That’s an interesting acknowledgment and a troubling one.

I don’t know who to blame or whether it’s even worth assessing any blame. TC’s draft record with the Wolves has clearly NOT been impressive, but I’m not yet prepared to call it a failure. Let’s see how Kessler, Dillingham, Minott, Miller, Luka, Shannon and Clark develop over the next few years. Note that Dilly got 22 minutes yesterday with the Bulls. He had 9 points, 3 rebounds and 4 assists. He had 3 turnovers, but he was a plus 9. In contrast, Sexton was a -7 in his 29 minutes and had 4 turnovers.

[Monster]

I think the jury’s still out on TC’s draft track record with the Wolves. I’ll first note that, with the exception of Dillingham, TC’s picks have all been in the bottom half of the 1st round or the 2nd round. With that context, Moore has been the only obviously terrible pick so far. Walker Kessler is looking like a darn good later first round pick. While TC didn’t “draft” Luka Garza, he did pick him up as an undrafted free agent and Luka’s looking very good with the Celtics.

Miller has been dominant in the G-League but just hasn’t had a meaningful opportunity in the NBA. Minott never had a meaningful NBA opportunity here but looked pretty decent with the Celtics. Remember he was a mid 2nd round pick. Shannon looked terrific last season before running into an injury issue this season. Clark has looked pretty good. Again, he was a late 2nd round pick.

Back to Dillingham. Honestly, he never had a meaningful opportunity to show what he can do at the NBA level much less develop his game. That’s on Finch, although I get it given that we’re competing for a championship and Dilly is barely 21 years old with only a year of college ball under his belt. At his latest press conference Finch acknowledged that he couldn’t find the minutes for Dilly while competing for a championship - i.e., Dilly wasn’t a good match for this team’s circumstances. To me, that’s on both TC and Finch. TC knew we’re competing for a championship yet he traded up for a 19-year old PG with only one year of college ball. That doesn’t compute. But having made the decision to draft Dilly, TC and the coaching staff should be on the same page and Finch should have found more minutes for him, especially given how terrible Conley has been this season. Finch also said at his last presser that “perhaps I need to do a better job of playing the younger guys.” That’s an interesting acknowledgment and a troubling one.

I don’t know who to blame or whether it’s even worth assessing any blame. TC’s draft record with the Wolves has clearly NOT been impressive, but I’m not yet prepared to call it a failure. Let’s see how Kessler, Dillingham, Minott, Miller, Luka, Shannon and Clark develop over the next few years. Note that Dilly got 22 minutes yesterday with the Bulls. He had 9 points, 3 rebounds and 4 assists. He had 3 turnovers, but he was a plus 9. In contrast, Sexton was a -7 in his 29 minutes and had 4 turnovers.

Lots of good posts on this thread including this one Lip.

Garza was a solid addition to the roster especially as originally on a 2 way but he was actually a former late 2nd round pick of the pistons who had him on a 2-way deal his rookie year. It feels like this is where Connelly really shines finding guys that haven't made it in the league yet and bringing them on.

I can't remember if it was Finch or Connelly at the press conference that said something like Rob didn't progress in the timeline like he wanted to or we needed. I think when he was drafted they really felt like he was gonna be able to come in and help sooner. It's true he didn't get a lot of opportunities but it didn't seem like he really ran with them either. In addition he did have some injuries his rookie year at a time where there was some additional opportunities for him to get run. To compare Clark got the opportunity and ran with it.

One of the issues with young guys not getting an opportunity is Connelly doing his job to add to the roster. The frontcourt continued to be stacked (including Garza) so Leonard and even Minott struggled to get minutes. Most people wanted him to do more at the PG position this off-season except the people that were all in on Dillingham getting minutes. Connelly went out an got Bones who he had drafted before and this was met with skepticism which was understandable to some extent. Bones isn't the answer at the starting guard spot but he has been a pretty useful player on a vet min contract and is currently having a career season. Finch and Connelly have teamed up a couple times now on players that have had success here in NAW and Bones.

Finch deserves some criticism for how he does things but there are guys during his time that have earned their way into minutes that are not old dudes. Clark earned them last season as a rookie. TSJ got minutes too. Garza got minutes and did something with them even his first year here on a 2-way deal Bones was a guy without a fully guaranteed contract and is still 25 and he worked his way into the rotation. Naw made the most of his opportunity after getting here and continued to develop. So Finch isn't opposed to playing young guys but you better actually be able to play. That doesn't seem that unreasonable especially on a good team.

[WildWolf2813]

the answer to the question is Get the draft pick right. Otherwise Connelly will try to build a financially unsustainable roster.

Can you blame any GM for not consistently hitting on late picks? No. But when you go out of your way to trade up into the top 10, you better not miss and he did. He's trying to salvage a bad situation he put himself in (or Finch put him in)

I said this since the day he was hired: Connelly was brought here because he was a real good judge of young talent. That hasn't materialized. The big 3 that some of y'all think are here are all still Rosas guys.

[Lipoli390]

the answer to the question is Get the draft pick right. Otherwise Connelly will try to build a financially unsustainable roster.

Can you blame any GM for not consistently hitting on late picks? No. But when you go out of your way to trade up into the top 10, you better not miss and he did. He's trying to salvage a bad situation he put himself in (or Finch put him in)

I said this since the day he was hired: Connelly was brought here because he was a real good judge of young talent. That hasn't materialized. The big 3 that some of y'all think are here are all still Rosas guys.

I think you’ve it the nail on the head. TC hasn’t excelled here at what was considered his strength as a top NBA executive. I agree that when you trade up to take a guy at #8 you’d better hit on that pick. But I also think there’s a disconnect between TC and his head coach and that’s also on TC. When you trade away most of your draft capital, it’s imperative that your organization develop the limited number of young players you draft. TC has said that himself. Accordingly, your head coach needs to make development of those young players a priority. It’s up to TC to make sure that’s what his head coach does or get a head coach who will.

Maybe we’ll see Shannon get back to where he was late last season and improve from there once he’s healthy — assuming Finch gives him enough playing time and allows him to play through mistakes the way he allows Randle and others to play through mistakes. Maybe Clark will continues to develop although I have doubts about Clark. I do think TC struck gold with Beringer, but he’ll need meaningful consistent minutes to develop his talent and that will require a reasonably patient head coach who gives him those minutes and allows him to play through mistakes. Same for Rocco who looks like he could be really good.

I thought TC should have traded up for a bigger, more NBA-ready PG instead of Dillingham, but I still think TC will end up proven right on his assessment of Dillingham who just never had ample opportunity here. I think he was a good pick for us if we had a head coach willing to give him meaningful, consistent minutes. Alas, that wasn’t the case. The Bulls gave Dilly 22 minutes his first game there and he was a +9 with 6 points, 3 rebounds and 4 assists. It will be interesting to watch him develop. I think TC was right about Kessler who was already showing a lot of promise before his injury that sidelined him this season. And I remain high on Shannon. So I’m not ready to pass final judgment on TC’s draft acumen since coming to the Wolves.

Right now, I believe TC’s priority should be replacing Finch with a head coach who can get through to the players on our roster in a way Finch clearly hasn’t and also start developing our younger guys.

[Lipoli390]

The Dillingham Report. Here’s how he’s performed in his first three game with the Bulls:

Game 1
22 minutes, 9 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers, 3-7 FG, 0-1 Threes, 2-2 FT, +9

Game 2
22 minutes, 8 points, 7 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 seals, 1 turnover, 4-10 FG 0-1 Threes, 0-0FT, +7

Game 3
30 minutes, 16 points, 7 assists, 3 steals, 3 turnovers, 6-12 FG, 0-2 Threes, 4-5 FT, -17.

This third game was his only minus so far, but minus 17 on a bad team in a 19 point loss isn’t something to focus on. However, what is worthy of focus are his 16 points on 50% FG shooting, 5 trips to the line and 3 steals. He’s turned the ball over 3 times in to of these three games but that’s not surprising for a very young inexperienced PG, especially playing on a bad team.

It’s amazing how meaningful minutes can make a huge difference and how bad the fan eye test is when based on 10 random, unpredictable minutes per game. I’m actually surprised at how well Dilly has played these three games given how little he’s played all season. When you consider how little he’s played along with his age and inexperience, you can see he has a lot of promise.

All that said, trading Dilly for Ayo was absolutely the right move for the Wolves. But we have to ask ourselves, given how poorly Mike Conley has played and how uneven Hyland’s play has been, would the Wolves record have been any worse if Dilly had been playing a consistent 15-20 minutes per game? And if he had put up numbers like he’s putting up in Chicago, could the Wolves have gotten Ayo without giving up four second round picks? More importantly, will this team become a sustainable championship contender if Finch continues to fail to give the necessary consistent meaningful minutes to the team’s young talent over time? I honestly don’t have a confident answer to these questions but the top teams like OKC have found a way to incorporate their young talent into their rotations even as they’ve competed for a title. We should expect the same from the Wolves.

[FNG]

The Dillingham Report. Here’s how he’s performed in his first three game with the Bulls:

Game 1
22 minutes, 9 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers, 3-7 FG, 0-1 Threes, 2-2 FT, +9

Game 2
22 minutes, 8 points, 7 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 seals, 1 turnover, 4-10 FG 0-1 Threes, 0-0FT, +7

Game 3
30 minutes, 16 points, 7 assists, 3 steals, 3 turnovers, 6-12 FG, 0-2 Threes, 4-5 FT, -17.

This third game was his only minus so far, but minus 17 on a bad team in a 19 point loss isn’t something to focus on. However, what is worthy of focus are his 16 points on 50% FG shooting, 5 trips to the line and 3 steals. He’s turned the ball over 3 times in to of these three games but that’s not surprising for a very young inexperienced PG, especially playing on a bad team.

It’s amazing how meaningful minutes can make a huge difference and how bad the fan eye test is when based on 10 random, unpredictable minutes per game. I’m actually surprised at how well Dilly has played these three games given how little he’s played all season. When you consider how little he’s played along with his age and inexperience, you can see he has a lot of promise.

All that said, trading Dilly for Ayo was absolutely the right move for the Wolves. But we have to ask ourselves, given how poorly Mike Conley has played and how uneven Hyland’s play has been, would the Wolves record have been any worse if Dilly had been playing a consistent 15-20 minutes per game? And if he had put up numbers like he’s putting up in Chicago, could the Wolves have gotten Ayo without giving up four second round picks? More importantly, will this team become a sustainable championship contender if Finch continues to fail to give the necessary consistent meaningful minutes to the team’s young talent over time? I honestly don’t have a confident answer to these questions but the top teams like OKC have found a way to incorporate their young talent into their rotations even as they’ve competed for a title. We should expect the same from the Wolves.

I think almost all of us here think similarly about this: we love the trade, and we are cheering for Rob to play well. I think we all want this trade to be a win/win.

And you ask a fair question about Rob. But my answer is this: he was not ready to play meaningful minutes for a Wolves team with championship aspirations. Mike Conley's performance has fallen dramatically this season, and yet, he was contributing much more than Rob. Rob looked like a deer in the headlights most of the time he was on the court here, and Finchy certainly noticed it. But now he finds himself in a situation most young lottery picks find themselves in...getting meaningful minutes on a team building for the future rather than trying to win now. All the pressure he seemed to feel here is absent in Chicago, and he is free to play without pressure or having to look over his shoulder all the time. I am cheering for him and expect him to shine in Chicago, but I supported Finchy's decision to not play him...we all saw that he was not ready to play for a team in contention.