Should the Wolves fire Finch now or wait?

[AussieWolf3]

I'm really not a rash person, but I simply don't see any reason to believe that Finch's coaching can guide this team to an actual championship or even a finals appearance.
This continuity and abundant health of this roster leaves absolutely no excuse for their inability to execute an NBA game plan on offense or defense in mother fucking March.

I'm not absolving the players of their responsibility but Finch is clearly unable to get the best out of this group or get them to be more than the sum of their parts

[FNG]

I'm really not a rash person, but I simply don't see any reason to believe that Finch's coaching can guide this team to an actual championship or even a finals appearance.
This continuity and abundant health of this roster leaves absolutely no excuse for their inability to execute an NBA game plan on offense or defense in mother fucking March.

I'm not absolving the players of their responsibility but Finch is clearly unable to get the best out of this group or get them to be more than the sum of their parts

Aussie, I agree there is no excuse for this team's inability to execute the game plan. But is it Finchy's fault? How many times this season have we heard the TWolf who has the ball in his hands more than any teammate say postgame that the coaches drew up a great game plan, but they just didn't follow it? Do we have any confidence that if we bring in a new coach, Ant will suddenly develop an ability or willingness to follow a game plan? I know I don't...Ant is what he is, a combination of brilliance and maddening behavior. Some might say that a tougher coach might bench Ant if he drifted away from the game plan, but how would that sit with posters on this forum? Finchy gets ripped here when the perception is he has left Ant on the bench too long. I'm not saying I would be totally opposed to a coaching change after the season is over, but I don't think it is going to fix what is wrong with this team.

[Q-is-here]

I'm really not a rash person, but I simply don't see any reason to believe that Finch's coaching can guide this team to an actual championship or even a finals appearance.
This continuity and abundant health of this roster leaves absolutely no excuse for their inability to execute an NBA game plan on offense or defense in mother fucking March.

I'm not absolving the players of their responsibility but Finch is clearly unable to get the best out of this group or get them to be more than the sum of their parts

Aussie, I agree there is no excuse for this team's inability to execute the game plan. But is it Finchy's fault? How many times this season have we heard the TWolf who has the ball in his hands more than any teammate say postgame that the coaches drew up a great game plan, but they just didn't follow it? Do we have any confidence that if we bring in a new coach, Ant will suddenly develop an ability or willingness to follow a game plan? I know I don't...Ant is what he is, a combination of brilliance and maddening behavior. Some might say that a tougher coach might bench Ant if he drifted away from the game plan, but how would that sit with posters on this forum? Finchy gets ripped here when the perception is he has left Ant on the bench too long. I'm not saying I would be totally opposed to a coaching change after the season is over, but I don't think it is going to fix what is wrong with this team.

Yeah, I agree that replacing Finch by itself doesn't do much to change the trajectory of this franchise. The roster as currently constructed simply doesn't have the talent/maturity/discipline to win a title this year or next no matter who is coaching them. OKC and San Antonio are clearly better teams, with a healthy Denver team probably also ahead of the Wolves. I like our chances against most other Western Conference teams in a 7-game series, but reaching the WCF this year is probably the absolute ceiling this squad can make.

Ownership and Tim Connelly have to decide this offseason what route they want to take. If they simply make incremental changes - and I include a coaching change as incremental - while leaving the roster mostly in tact, then we need to prepare for a similar result next season: Good, second tier NBA team that can win a playoff series or two while selling the fanbase on whatever hope is generated by (potentially) a new coach and small-ish roster changes.

The other option is to roll the dice on a fairly significant roster overhaul AND a coaching change with Ant being the only untouchable asset. But there is risk involved there as well and it may not lead to anything better.

[rapsuperstar31]

If we change coaches who is going to be the Phil Jackson to Jordan, the Phil Jackson to Kobe, the...is Phil Jackson still around, did he have a son?

[Q-is-here]

If we change coaches who is going to be the Phil Jackson to Jordan, the Phil Jackson to Kobe, the...is Phil Jackson still around, did he have a son?

I reject the premise that the roster is only a Phil Jackson or Steve Kerr away from getting to the Finals. Sure, we can go get a new coach and it might be worth a few more wins here or there, but Ant isn't Jordan or Kobe or Curry and we don't have Pippen or Shaq or Draymond/Klay.

[rapsuperstar31]

If we change coaches who is going to be the Phil Jackson to Jordan, the Phil Jackson to Kobe, the...is Phil Jackson still around, did he have a son?

I reject the premise that the roster is only a Phil Jackson or Steve Kerr away from getting to the Finals. Sure, we can go get a new coach and it might be worth a few more wins here or there, but Ant isn't Jordan or Kobe or Curry and we don't have Pippen or Shaq or Draymond/Klay.

It, was a joke. But while agree, I think in today's NBA at least until Wemby builds that dynasty, we've had a new champion the past 7 seasons. We are currently in a an era where no team has taken the reins. I do think if you put 24 year old Ant with his new three point, clutch skills, and mid range game on that 23-24 team we easily beat that Dallas team and get to the finals. Ant at 22 wasn't there yet for that next step.

[Jester1534]

It's five years later and I've coached high school women's basketball for 10+ years. When I watch this team I have no idea what Free Flo Offense is still.

I'm sorry its just a less extreme version of Rambis forcing the Triangle offense. You job as a coach is to adapt to your roster and can you honestly say that Finch has put this roster in best position to succeed.

At the end of the day I say he hasn't and that's why he needs to be fired.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Gotta see it through this season with this group... and then make the call.

Often, it looks like the Wolves are playing without a game plan. And then Finch gets ripped. And then the players say something along the lines of "it's on us for not following the game plan."

Rinse. Repeat.

Either way, it's a sign that Finch's time here may be coming to an end. If he can't get the Wolves to listen to him (despite claims that he holds them accountable)... it's a clear sign the players need a new coach.

But that comes with some drawbacks.

1) Firing Finch would be absolving immature players for being immature. They're the ones not implementing the game plan. They're the ones with inconsistent efforts. At the end of the day, no old guy who's expendable making $8M annually is convincing guys making 4x or 7x than him to play harder.

2) It's not just Finch. By most reports, the Wolves have a solid to good coaching tree. And NBA coaching staffs are so much more than just the head coach (if players are willing to follow game plans). BUT... Nori, Prigioni, Turner, et al can't get through to these players either (see #1), so I don't think any of them are surefire replacements for Finch. It would be more of the same. The problem is that some or even most of the talented assistants are also gone if the Wolves replace Finch with an outsider.

3) I've seen so many "Fire Finch!" declarations lately. Meh. At some point, I start dismissing those chants as rants from casuals. This is the NBA. It's on the players. There are smart guys on the sidelines all over the Association. If you notice, the best teams have superstars who care... who are accountable to themselves and their teammates.

SGA
Wemby
Tatum + Brown
Etc.

Can we say the same about Anthony Edwards at this point?

4) ALMOST every coach gets fired. Even the good ones. That's just the way pro sports, especially the NBA, run. Finch has had a good run and I wouldn't want to see the best coach in franchise history become the scapegoat, but that's where we are.

As long as Edwards is here, there's hope that the coach can inspire him transform into a top 5 player in the league. If it's not Finch... maybe someone else can.

[rapsuperstar31]

Gotta see it through this season with this group... and then make the call.

Often, it looks like the Wolves are playing without a game plan. And then Finch gets ripped. And then the players say something along the lines of "it's on us for not following the game plan."

Rinse. Repeat.

Either way, it's a sign that Finch's time here may be coming to an end. If he can't get the Wolves to listen to him (despite claims that he holds them accountable)... it's a clear sign the players need a new coach.

But that comes with some drawbacks.

1) Firing Finch would be absolving immature players for being immature. They're the ones not implementing the game plan. They're the ones with inconsistent efforts. At the end of the day, no old guy who's expendable making $8M annually is convincing guys making 4x or 7x than him to play harder.

2) It's not just Finch. By most reports, the Wolves have a solid to good coaching tree. And NBA coaching staffs are so much more than just the head coach (if players are willing to follow game plans). BUT... Nori, Prigioni, Turner, et al can't get through to these players either (see #1), so I don't think any of them are surefire replacements for Finch. It would be more of the same. The problem is that some or even most of the talented assistants are also gone if the Wolves replace Finch with an outsider.

3) I've seen so many "Fire Finch!" declarations lately. Meh. At some point, I start dismissing those chants as rants from casuals. This is the NBA. It's on the players. There are smart guys on the sidelines all over the Association. If you notice, the best teams have superstars who care... who are accountable to themselves and their teammates.

SGA
Wemby
Tatum + Brown
Etc.

Can we say the same about Anthony Edwards at this point?

4) ALMOST every coach gets fired. Even the good ones. That's just the way pro sports, especially the NBA, run. Finch has had a good run and I wouldn't want to see the best coach in franchise history become the scapegoat, but that's where we are.

As long as Edwards is here, there's hope that the coach can inspire him transform into a top 5 player in the league. If it's not Finch... maybe someone else can.

Can we maybe not crown Wemby yet until we see it in the playoffs? Maybe he's one of the rare superstars that wins a championship before the 26-28 age range where most win their first. Until he does it, he still needs to win a playoff game, a series, multiple series. Ant continues to change and adapt his game based on the playoff results. He couldn't beat the Dallas bigs so he learned to shoot threes, he couldn't get off his threes against OKC's defense so he learned to shoot from the mid range. Wemby hasn't been to the playoffs yet, lets see what happens when he gets there and if he falls on face in his inexperience. Lets see how that failure evolves Wemby's game as he changes his game to improve in one area or the other. Right now Ant's focus has bee mostly on improving his shot making from all parts of the court, and he has worked on his dribbling as well (although he still dribbles it off of his foot too often) He also works on his playmaking lobs to Joan in the summer, which could be huge for future seasons in the Ant 2.0 timeline. Until I see it in the playoffs, Wemby isn't on any list yet.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Gotta see it through this season with this group... and then make the call.

Often, it looks like the Wolves are playing without a game plan. And then Finch gets ripped. And then the players say something along the lines of "it's on us for not following the game plan."

Rinse. Repeat.

Either way, it's a sign that Finch's time here may be coming to an end. If he can't get the Wolves to listen to him (despite claims that he holds them accountable)... it's a clear sign the players need a new coach.

But that comes with some drawbacks.

1) Firing Finch would be absolving immature players for being immature. They're the ones not implementing the game plan. They're the ones with inconsistent efforts. At the end of the day, no old guy who's expendable making $8M annually is convincing guys making 4x or 7x than him to play harder.

2) It's not just Finch. By most reports, the Wolves have a solid to good coaching tree. And NBA coaching staffs are so much more than just the head coach (if players are willing to follow game plans). BUT... Nori, Prigioni, Turner, et al can't get through to these players either (see #1), so I don't think any of them are surefire replacements for Finch. It would be more of the same. The problem is that some or even most of the talented assistants are also gone if the Wolves replace Finch with an outsider.

3) I've seen so many "Fire Finch!" declarations lately. Meh. At some point, I start dismissing those chants as rants from casuals. This is the NBA. It's on the players. There are smart guys on the sidelines all over the Association. If you notice, the best teams have superstars who care... who are accountable to themselves and their teammates.

SGA
Wemby
Tatum + Brown
Etc.

Can we say the same about Anthony Edwards at this point?

4) ALMOST every coach gets fired. Even the good ones. That's just the way pro sports, especially the NBA, run. Finch has had a good run and I wouldn't want to see the best coach in franchise history become the scapegoat, but that's where we are.

As long as Edwards is here, there's hope that the coach can inspire him transform into a top 5 player in the league. If it's not Finch... maybe someone else can.

Can we maybe not crown Wemby yet until we see it in the playoffs? Maybe he's one of the rare superstars that wins a championship before the 26-28 age range where most win their first. Until he does it, he still needs to win a playoff game, a series, multiple series. Ant continues to change and adapt his game based on the playoff results. He couldn't beat the Dallas bigs so he learned to shoot threes, he couldn't get off his threes against OKC's defense so he learned to shoot from the mid range. Wemby hasn't been to the playoffs yet, lets see what happens when he gets there and if he falls on face in his inexperience. Lets see how that failure evolves Wemby's game as he changes his game to improve in one area or the other. Right now Ant's focus has bee mostly on improving his shot making from all parts of the court, and he has worked on his dribbling as well (although he still dribbles it off of his foot too often) He also works on his playmaking lobs to Joan in the summer, which could be huge for future seasons in the Ant 2.0 timeline. Until I see it in the playoffs, Wemby isn't on any list yet.

I think we're discussing two different things. I'm not talking about proven success or even the playoffs.

I'm talking about the best players on good teams who put out consistent effort. The kind of "give a shit" effort (or attention to detail) that gets teammates to follow. Edwards is an amazing player. He does things we've never seen from a Timberwolves player before. He does things very few (if any) NBA players can match. I'm extremely happy to root for him on the Timberwolves player. I enjoy it immensely.

But his inconsistency (often, inconsistent effort) is well documented at this point. As the leader of the Wolves, it seems that some players have followed his lead, making the Wolves one of the most inconsistent teams in the League.