FAFO Suns @ Wolves GDT

[rapsuperstar31]

Good sum up FNG.

What I am most concerned about without Ant is that the team already lacks ballhanders, so losing Ant is going to hurt. The Sun tried to ramp the pressure up on Bones and it's clear he doesn't have a lot of answers for it and I'm concerned that may cost them.

Sidenote: it really is pretty disappointing the difference in defense rating with and without Ant, and even the Net Rating for that matter. Your best player should be able to elevate that more

Is there a way to break down what Ants defensive rating is with each player group? Is the starting groups defensive rating not good, or does Ants defensive rating tank in the minutes (end of the 1st and 3rd quarters) Ant is out there without Rudy, Jaden, and Donte, and he's out there against the other teams best players, Joker, SGA, Wemby etc?

[AussieWolf3]

Good sum up FNG.

What I am most concerned about without Ant is that the team already lacks ballhanders, so losing Ant is going to hurt. The Sun tried to ramp the pressure up on Bones and it's clear he doesn't have a lot of answers for it and I'm concerned that may cost them.

Sidenote: it really is pretty disappointing the difference in defense rating with and without Ant, and even the Net Rating for that matter. Your best player should be able to elevate that more

Is there a way to break down what Ants defensive rating is with each player group? Is the starting groups defensive rating not good, or does Ants defensive rating tank in the minutes (end of the 1st and 3rd quarters) Ant is out there without Rudy, Jaden, and Donte, and he's out there against the other teams best players, Joker, SGA, Wemby etc?

I had the same question, but I'm not smart enough to figure it out.

I did finally find a accessible, free, and easy to search place for on/off data as well as a myriad of other things:
https://databallr.com/stats

Interestingly; Ant has a def on/off of -6.1.
2nd worst on the team among relevant players. Who is the worst you ask?

Randle at -9.3

I'm not convinced that on/off, net rating or any of those associated stats are that useful in measuring individual impact, but both players score very probably in most advanced metrics defensively.
However, Ant far out paces Randle in overall impact in every advanced stat available and is absolutely prodigious for his age.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe's "I fell asleep with 9 minutes left so I didn't do a same-day DVR review" DVR review:

- I saw the On/Off stats with/without Ant yesterday afternoon. The team has been better defensively, so I was cautiously optimistic and intrigued about the first game without him. Then I watched the first 18 minutes of that game. Woof! The Suns had 57 points in the first 18 minutes. It was understandable to wonder if the Wolves had ever seen a pick-n-roll before.

- The Suns had 14 assists on 15 buckets in the 1st quarter. 14 assists!!!

Then the switched flipped for the Wolves on defense... and the Suns scored 47 points over the next 32 minutes!

- The Suns scored only 6 points in the final 6:19 of the 2nd quarter. Then, they shot 28.6% in the 2nd half... including 8 - 28 on TWO pointers (28.6%) in the 2nd half.

- Oso Ighodaro had 14 points and 5 rebs (7 - 9 fg) in those ill-fated first 18 minutes. Then, he had 2 points and 5 rebs (0 - 3 fg) over the next 32 minutes. Obviously, he's nothing more than an energetic, rim-running big who basically only scores via the PnR. So what changed?

- Did the players figure out how to defend the PnR suddenly or did the coaching staff make some adjustments, too? Obviously, the players should get the lion's share of credit for playing well defensively... but this might be a decent time to commend the coaching staff on in-game strategies, too.

- Hyland is a streaky player... today he hit his shots. And he's playing with a good pace, especially with Ayo as his running mate. He's earned his way into the everyday rotation. But there were at least two occasions where his (lack of) strength was exposed. He came off a screen and was bumped and lost the ball. Possibly a foul, but contact every NBA player needs to overcome. And then he was physically outmuscled at halfcourt in the 2nd half and lost the ball. Another possible foul? I dunno... but another sign that his slight frame is a big part of his limitations as a player. Regardless, I'm glad he's on the team and has carved out a role on the team and in the league after a bumpy few years. Good game from him.

- Jalen Green. I'll just say that I'm happy I don't have to watch him on my favorite team. Despite the Suns offense clicking... Green did his best to thwart it. He was 3 - 14 fg in that 1st half. The rest of the Suns were 22 - 41. Thanks Jalen! I think the Suns' coaching staff noticed, too. He played 16 of the first 20 minutes. But only 10 of the final 28 minutes. He's making $105M over the next three years. Everything about him screams "talented knucklehead who'll never figure out how to play winning basketball."

- Quintessential Kyle Anderson game. Someone else mentioned his hair... it's... ummm... distracting at best. For a guy who is really into basketball and normally wouldn't care about that sort of stuff, it kinda bugs me to be honest. LOL.

- Playmaking: Interestingly... the starters had 12 assists in 168 minutes. The bench had 16 assists in 71 minutes.

- Whew... a 3-game lead against a flawed team with only 13 games left in the season. Feels a lot better. I'm ok with a #6 seed if it means a healthier Edwards in the playoffs. (That being said... a letdown game vs. the Jazz tonight will make me anxious all over again.)

[AussieWolf3]

Ok I did check on 5 man line up data.
I decided to look at things from Jan 1st onwards to remove some of the noisy lineups including Clarke and Conely.

All 5 starters: 116.5/ 110.6/ Net 6.0

Starters minus Randle, plus Ried: 118.6/ 90.8/ Net 27.8

Starters minus Ant and Randle, plus Ried and Hyland: 105.8/ 86.7/ net 19.1

Starters minus Gobert plus Ried: 126.4/ 118/ 8.4

These four lineups by minutes. They're not super helpful cause the minutes for Ayo and Anderson are too small and noisy to tell us anything (do I didn't bother including them) but their contributions will obviously be meaningful going forward.

Either way the biggest shifts do seems to include losing Randle, but earlier seasons data also showed us that losing Ant for Conely had similar swings.

Bottom line for is that Randle and Ant are just not a fruitful pairing and are often toxic

Fwiw their two man net rating in that same time is 4.6

[FNG]

Abe's "I fell asleep with 9 minutes left so I didn't do a same-day DVR review" DVR review:

- I saw the On/Off stats with/without Ant yesterday afternoon. The team has been better defensively, so I was cautiously optimistic and intrigued about the first game without him. Then I watched the first 18 minutes of that game. Woof! The Suns had 57 points in the first 18 minutes. It was understandable to wonder if the Wolves had ever seen a pick-n-roll before.

- The Suns had 14 assists on 15 buckets in the 1st quarter. 14 assists!!!

Then the switched flipped for the Wolves on defense... and the Suns scored 47 points over the next 32 minutes!

- The Suns scored only 6 points in the final 6:19 of the 2nd quarter. Then, they shot 28.6% in the 2nd half... including 8 - 28 on TWO pointers (28.6%) in the 2nd half.

- Oso Ighodaro had 14 points and 5 rebs (7 - 9 fg) in those ill-fated first 18 minutes. Then, he had 2 points and 5 rebs (0 - 3 fg) over the next 32 minutes. Obviously, he's nothing more than an energetic, rim-running big who basically only scores via the PnR. So what changed?

- Did the players figure out how to defend the PnR suddenly or did the coaching staff make some adjustments, too? Obviously, the players should get the lion's share of credit for playing well defensively... but this might be a decent time to commend the coaching staff on in-game strategies, too.

- Hyland is a streaky player... today he hit his shots. And he's playing with a good pace, especially with Ayo as his running mate. He's earned his way into the everyday rotation. But there were at least two occasions where his (lack of) strength was exposed. He came off a screen and was bumped and lost the ball. Possibly a foul, but contact every NBA player needs to overcome. And then he was physically outmuscled at halfcourt in the 2nd half and lost the ball. Another possible foul? I dunno... but another sign that his slight frame is a big part of his limitations as a player. Regardless, I'm glad he's on the team and has carved out a role on the team and in the league after a bumpy few years. Good game from him.

- Jalen Green. I'll just say that I'm happy I don't have to watch him on my favorite team. Despite the Suns offense clicking... Green did his best to thwart it. He was 3 - 14 fg in that 1st half. The rest of the Suns were 22 - 41. Thanks Jalen! I think the Suns' coaching staff noticed, too. He played 16 of the first 20 minutes. But only 10 of the final 28 minutes. He's making $105M over the next three years. Everything about him screams "talented knucklehead who'll never figure out how to play winning basketball."

- Quintessential Kyle Anderson game. Someone else mentioned his hair... it's... ummm... distracting at best. For a guy who is really into basketball and normally wouldn't care about that sort of stuff, it kinda bugs me to be honest. LOL.

- Playmaking: Interestingly... the starters had 12 assists in 168 minutes. The bench had 16 assists in 71 minutes.

- Whew... a 3-game lead against a flawed team with only 13 games left in the season. Feels a lot better. I'm ok with a #6 seed if it means a healthier Edwards in the playoffs. (That being said... a letdown game vs. the Jazz tonight will make me anxious all over again.)

Abe: regarding your comment about the defense flipping a switch after a dreadful first quarter. After the first quarter, I was ready to declare my take that Ant was the main problem for our defense the worst take ever on this board. But then everything changed. Dane Moore asked Finchy about this after the game, and his answer made sense, but was not very flattering to Ant on two fronts. Finchy said the coaches came out with a flawed game plan: they were concerned about the outside shooting of Booker and Green (Green, really Chris?), and so they asked Rudy to play high wall defense. This hurt our defensive rebounding, and the Suns were able to score easily inside with Rudy not there...hence Ighodaro going off for 14/5 in the first 18 minutes. But the coaches changed the game plan sometime in the second quarter and had Rudy play drop coverage instead, and we all saw what happened.

Knee jerk conclusions after one game without Ant:

1) Ant is the primary problem on defense. When he's not on the court, our defensive rating is equal to the Pistons's. And once the coaches changed a bad game plan, our defense without Ant was stellar in this game.

2) We've heard numerous times post-game that the coaches drew up a good game plan, but the players didn't follow it. Finchy implies in his comments that the players did follow the game plan in this game...both the original flawed one, and the corrected one. So Ant doesn't play, and suddenly the players follow a game plan. Hmm...

[AussieWolf3]

Knee jerk conclusions after one game without Ant:

1) Ant is the primary problem on defense. When he's not on the court, our defensive rating is equal to the Pistons's. And once the coaches changed a bad game plan, our defense without Ant was stellar in this game.

I don't agree with this. Well not totally, because the evidence suggests that when BOTH Ant and Randle are on the floor there is a problem with the defense.

The defensive rating without Ant is 110, without Randle it is 108.4. without both of them it is 101.7

Stats found here https://databallr.com/wowy/MIN/2026/202 ... 162/203944

[Q-is-here]

Knee jerk conclusions after one game without Ant:

1) Ant is the primary problem on defense. When he's not on the court, our defensive rating is equal to the Pistons's. And once the coaches changed a bad game plan, our defense without Ant was stellar in this game.

I don't agree with this. Well not totally, because the evidence suggests that when BOTH Ant and Randle are on the floor there is a problem with the defense.

The defensive rating without Ant is 110, without Randle it is 108.4. without both of them it is 101.7

Stats found here https://databallr.com/wowy/MIN/2026/202 ... 162/203944

The other thing it totally ignores is that Ant sits when the opposing team's best player sits. Ant is almost NEVER on the floor to start the 2nd or 4th quarters and it's during that time an opponent fields its weakest lineup. And since we cut Dilly, Conley, and Shannon out of the rotation our bench is pretty strong relative to an average NBA opponent's bench. Phoenix had a rookie out there (Fleming) for Randle and SloMo to abuse!

The other thing Ant never benefits from is being sat in tight games due to Finch anticipating a matchup issue or simply due to not having a good game. Pretty much every other starter on the Wolves have at some point sat late in 4th quarters for one reason or another. That in essence spares them from being exposed further, which in turn would negatively impact their Net Rating. Ant never sits in crunch time.

I'm not making excuses for Ant's effort level or adherance to game plans, as those are legitimate issues. But there are reasons outside of those two issues that have a profound affect on Net Rating and On/Off Rating.

[Wolvesfan21]

Abe's "I fell asleep with 9 minutes left so I didn't do a same-day DVR review" DVR review:

- I saw the On/Off stats with/without Ant yesterday afternoon. The team has been better defensively, so I was cautiously optimistic and intrigued about the first game without him. Then I watched the first 18 minutes of that game. Woof! The Suns had 57 points in the first 18 minutes. It was understandable to wonder if the Wolves had ever seen a pick-n-roll before.

- The Suns had 14 assists on 15 buckets in the 1st quarter. 14 assists!!!

Then the switched flipped for the Wolves on defense... and the Suns scored 47 points over the next 32 minutes!

- The Suns scored only 6 points in the final 6:19 of the 2nd quarter. Then, they shot 28.6% in the 2nd half... including 8 - 28 on TWO pointers (28.6%) in the 2nd half.

- Oso Ighodaro had 14 points and 5 rebs (7 - 9 fg) in those ill-fated first 18 minutes. Then, he had 2 points and 5 rebs (0 - 3 fg) over the next 32 minutes. Obviously, he's nothing more than an energetic, rim-running big who basically only scores via the PnR. So what changed?

- Did the players figure out how to defend the PnR suddenly or did the coaching staff make some adjustments, too? Obviously, the players should get the lion's share of credit for playing well defensively... but this might be a decent time to commend the coaching staff on in-game strategies, too.

- Hyland is a streaky player... today he hit his shots. And he's playing with a good pace, especially with Ayo as his running mate. He's earned his way into the everyday rotation. But there were at least two occasions where his (lack of) strength was exposed. He came off a screen and was bumped and lost the ball. Possibly a foul, but contact every NBA player needs to overcome. And then he was physically outmuscled at halfcourt in the 2nd half and lost the ball. Another possible foul? I dunno... but another sign that his slight frame is a big part of his limitations as a player. Regardless, I'm glad he's on the team and has carved out a role on the team and in the league after a bumpy few years. Good game from him.

- Jalen Green. I'll just say that I'm happy I don't have to watch him on my favorite team. Despite the Suns offense clicking... Green did his best to thwart it. He was 3 - 14 fg in that 1st half. The rest of the Suns were 22 - 41. Thanks Jalen! I think the Suns' coaching staff noticed, too. He played 16 of the first 20 minutes. But only 10 of the final 28 minutes. He's making $105M over the next three years. Everything about him screams "talented knucklehead who'll never figure out how to play winning basketball."

- Quintessential Kyle Anderson game. Someone else mentioned his hair... it's... ummm... distracting at best. For a guy who is really into basketball and normally wouldn't care about that sort of stuff, it kinda bugs me to be honest. LOL.

- Playmaking: Interestingly... the starters had 12 assists in 168 minutes. The bench had 16 assists in 71 minutes.

- Whew... a 3-game lead against a flawed team with only 13 games left in the season. Feels a lot better. I'm ok with a #6 seed if it means a healthier Edwards in the playoffs. (That being said... a letdown game vs. the Jazz tonight will make me anxious all over again.)

Abe: regarding your comment about the defense flipping a switch after a dreadful first quarter. After the first quarter, I was ready to declare my take that Ant was the main problem for our defense the worst take ever on this board. But then everything changed. Dane Moore asked Finchy about this after the game, and his answer made sense, but was not very flattering to Ant on two fronts. Finchy said the coaches came out with a flawed game plan: they were concerned about the outside shooting of Booker and Green (Green, really Chris?), and so they asked Rudy to play high wall defense. This hurt our defensive rebounding, and the Suns were able to score easily inside with Rudy not there...hence Ighodaro going off for 14/5 in the first 18 minutes. But the coaches changed the game plan sometime in the second quarter and had Rudy play drop coverage instead, and we all saw what happened.

Knee jerk conclusions after one game without Ant:

1) Ant is the primary problem on defense. When he's not on the court, our defensive rating is equal to the Pistons's. And once the coaches changed a bad game plan, our defense without Ant was stellar in this game.

2) We've heard numerous times post-game that the coaches drew up a good game plan, but the players didn't follow it. Finchy implies in his comments that the players did follow the game plan in this game...both the original flawed one, and the corrected one. So Ant doesn't play, and suddenly the players follow a game plan. Hmm...

Ant's regular season defense for sure to my eye test has dropped this year. When we had the #1 ranked defense a few years ago I think he simply played on that end much more. Obviously he is capable of doing it, he simply doesn't care enough to do so now and focus on his offensive bag.

As great as Ant is and he is a great player, he's been a poor leader on the court this year in the regular season. If he was to up his defense, play quicker and more in line within the game plan we'd be right there I think with SA and OKC. Maybe I'm a homer saying that, but I think it'd be possible.

See the problem with defense is, you need all 5 players playing it. One weak link or half effort and the other team will exploit it, and they do. We have too often seen both Ju and Ant play half ass defense for many games or most of the game. When your lead dogs play half ass, it simply doesn't matter how good a defense the other 3 or 4 guys play. It just doesn't matter at that point. Not only that it will rub off on the other players too.

I kind of hate blaming the best player, but in the end, how he goes the Wolves go. The W/L record is really on him, good or bad. Saying that if he simply wasn't as talented or capable I wouldn't put it all on him, and certainly many games his teammates have failed too, no question. But I think overall he hasn't played up to his ability. As great as he is I really think he could be in the MVP race, and because our record isn't up to snuff, he obviously isn't the MVP.

[Leado01]

Big game, no Ant, don't trust TJ

That's dumb

Probably since Bones and Kyle have played really well. Finch probably really wants the regulars to get their groove back too.

Shannon had better get significant minutes tonight. We've yet to see AYO, Bones, and TSJ on the floor really putting pressure on in transition

[Coolbreeze44]

[quote=Wolvesfan21 post_id=664706 time=1773861198 user_id=653]
[quote=FNG post_id=664698 time=1773855333 user_id=648]
[quote=AbeVigodaLive post_id=664696 time=1773848377 user_id=644]
Abe's "I fell asleep with 9 minutes left so I didn't do a same-day DVR review" DVR review:

- I saw the On/Off stats with/without Ant yesterday afternoon. The team has been better defensively, so I was cautiously optimistic and intrigued about the first game without him. Then I watched the first 18 minutes of that game. Woof! The Suns had 57 points in the first 18 minutes. It was understandable to wonder if the Wolves had ever seen a pick-n-roll before.

- The Suns had 14 assists on 15 buckets in the 1st quarter. 14 assists!!!

Then the switched flipped for the Wolves on defense... and the Suns scored 47 points over the next 32 minutes!

- The Suns scored only 6 points in the final 6:19 of the 2nd quarter. Then, they shot 28.6% in the 2nd half... including 8 - 28 on TWO pointers (28.6%) in the 2nd half.

- Oso Ighodaro had 14 points and 5 rebs (7 - 9 fg) in those ill-fated first 18 minutes. Then, he had 2 points and 5 rebs (0 - 3 fg) over the next 32 minutes. Obviously, he's nothing more than an energetic, rim-running big who basically only scores via the PnR. So what changed?

- Did the players figure out how to defend the PnR suddenly or did the coaching staff make some adjustments, too? Obviously, the players should get the lion's share of credit for playing well defensively... but this might be a decent time to commend the coaching staff on in-game strategies, too.

- Hyland is a streaky player... today he hit his shots. And he's playing with a good pace, especially with Ayo as his running mate. He's earned his way into the everyday rotation. But there were at least two occasions where his (lack of) strength was exposed. He came off a screen and was bumped and lost the ball. Possibly a foul, but contact every NBA player needs to overcome. And then he was physically outmuscled at halfcourt in the 2nd half and lost the ball. Another possible foul? I dunno... but another sign that his slight frame is a big part of his limitations as a player. Regardless, I'm glad he's on the team and has carved out a role on the team and in the league after a bumpy few years. Good game from him.

- Jalen Green. I'll just say that I'm happy I don't have to watch him on my favorite team. Despite the Suns offense clicking... Green did his best to thwart it. He was 3 - 14 fg in that 1st half. The rest of the Suns were 22 - 41. Thanks Jalen! I think the Suns' coaching staff noticed, too. He played 16 of the first 20 minutes. But only 10 of the final 28 minutes. He's making $105M over the next three years. Everything about him screams "talented knucklehead who'll never figure out how to play winning basketball."

- Quintessential Kyle Anderson game. Someone else mentioned his hair... it's... ummm... distracting at best. For a guy who is really into basketball and normally wouldn't care about that sort of stuff, it kinda bugs me to be honest. LOL.

- Playmaking: Interestingly... the starters had 12 assists in 168 minutes. The bench had 16 assists in 71 minutes.

- Whew... a 3-game lead against a flawed team with only 13 games left in the season. Feels a lot better. I'm ok with a #6 seed if it means a healthier Edwards in the playoffs. (That being said... a letdown game vs. the Jazz tonight will make me anxious all over again.)
[/quote]

Abe: regarding your comment about the defense flipping a switch after a dreadful first quarter. After the first quarter, I was ready to declare my take that Ant was the main problem for our defense the worst take ever on this board. But then everything changed. Dane Moore asked Finchy about this after the game, and his answer made sense, but was not very flattering to Ant on two fronts. Finchy said the coaches came out with a flawed game plan: they were concerned about the outside shooting of Booker and Green (Green, really Chris?), and so they asked Rudy to play high wall defense. This hurt our defensive rebounding, and the Suns were able to score easily inside with Rudy not there...hence Ighodaro going off for 14/5 in the first 18 minutes. But the coaches changed the game plan sometime in the second quarter and had Rudy play drop coverage instead, and we all saw what happened.

Knee jerk conclusions after one game without Ant:

1) Ant is the primary problem on defense. When he's not on the court, our defensive rating is equal to the Pistons's. And once the coaches changed a bad game plan, our defense without Ant was stellar in this game.

2) We've heard numerous times post-game that the coaches drew up a good game plan, but the players didn't follow it. Finchy implies in his comments that the players did follow the game plan in this game...both the original flawed one, and the corrected one. So Ant doesn't play, and suddenly the players follow a game plan. Hmm...
[/quote]

Ant's regular season defense for sure to my eye test has dropped this year. When we had the #1 ranked defense a few years ago I think he simply played on that end much more. Obviously he is capable of doing it, he simply doesn't care enough to do so now and focus on his offensive bag.

As great as Ant is and he is a great player, he's been a poor leader on the court this year in the regular season. If he was to up his defense, play quicker and more in line within the game plan we'd be right there I think with SA and OKC. Maybe I'm a homer saying that, but I think it'd be possible.

See the problem with defense is, you need all 5 players playing it. One weak link or half effort and the other team will exploit it, and they do. We have too often seen both Ju and Ant play half ass defense for many games or most of the game. When your lead dogs play half ass, it simply doesn't matter how good a defense the other 3 or 4 guys play. It just doesn't matter at that point. Not only that it will rub off on the other players too.

I kind of hate blaming the best player, but in the end, how he goes the Wolves go. The W/L record is really on him, good or bad. Saying that if he simply wasn't as talented or capable I wouldn't put it all on him, and certainly many games his teammates have failed too, no question. But I think overall he hasn't played up to his ability. As great as he is I really think he could be in the MVP race, and because our record isn't up to snuff, he obviously isn't the MVP.
[/quote]

This is a great post WF. Especially the part about defense having to be a 5 man orchestra of sorts. Minnesota sports fans are generally sensitive to criticism of their favorite player. But I like that some of us can see the forest through the trees and be objective. Q makes excuses for Ant's defense, and then follows with "I'm not making excuses for Ant". Either you are or you're not. Ant is a great basketball player that hasn't figured out yet if winning is his top priority. I hope along with everyone that eventually he figures it out, but I'm not putting big money on it.