Okay, I'll do it - Wolves at 76ers GDT

[TheFuture]

At this point, Joan Beringer is nothing. Proven nothing. You can't bank on that.

Anybody that is talking about moving Rudy, is heavily short-sighted.

That guy is truly a third of our team.
You will never get back the value for him. If you're honest, he is the only reason this team makes the playoffs.

Without him, this team would be screwed.

The only idea behind moving Rudy would be a full reset, where the players would have to learn to defend without him cleaning it all up.

Untouchables go this way:
Ant, Rudy, Jaden, Ayo, SloMo

Anybody else can go.

[AussieWolf3]

At this point, Joan Beringer is nothing. Proven nothing. You can't bank on that.

Anybody that is talking about moving Rudy, is heavily short-sighted.

That guy is truly a third of our team.
You will never get back the value for him. If you're honest, he is the only reason this team makes the playoffs.

Without him, this team would be screwed.

The only idea behind moving Rudy would be a full reset, where the players would have to learn to defend without him cleaning it all up.

Untouchables go this way:
Ant, Rudy, Jaden, Ayo, SloMo

Anybody else can go.

Rudy is nearly 34 years old and signed through till 27'-28' when he'll be 36. Tell me again how it's "short sighted" to suggest that such a player isn't untouchable?

I'm certainly not arguing against his value to the team, and moving Rudy doesn't mean that you don't gain a replacement. This team needs to learn to run without Rudy because for all of his merits he has been a relatively poor playoff performer.

Again, I like Rudy and recognize what he brings to the team, but there is absolutely a world where it makes sense to move on earlier than later

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe's "I only watched the first 5 minutes but I'm going to act like I saw something really really meaningful in that time" DVR Review:

- Anthony Edwards heads to the line 2 minutes into the game... he rubs his knee and then grimaces. I saw Edwards start 1 - 4 with a TO and missed free throw. He didn't look right. And the boxscore (and this thread) tell me he didn't get any better. Illness... knee... both?

So as crazysauce wrote: Why was he playing?

I would not be surprised if we see a lot of TJ Shannon, Clark, and the bench guys for the next 3 games. The Wolves are locked into #6 and need to get healthy. So why not let Reid rest his shoulder, Edwards his knee, and whatever ailments other rotation guys have. Then regroup for a couple of games prior to the playoffs.



[Note: This is anecdotal, but I have seen A LOT of Timberwolves basketball... It seems like Edwards struggles in his first game, or couple of games, after a longer absence. That's the one caveat for sitting him too much longer before the playoffs start.]

[FNG]

Very odd game. Neither team looked like they wanted to win during the first quarter. I can understand why the Wolves might not be motivated...they're missing Jaden and essentially Ant and are almost certain to finish 6th. But the 76ers are in a dog fight with Toronto for 6th, so I thought they would be a lot hungrier than they seemed. Embiid was playing like a guard on offense and Maxey was invisible. But when those two got interested in the second half, you could tell we had no chance. The 12-point loss would have been much worse without the hot shooting of Nah'Shon. He was the only bright spot, except for maybe Julius...I thought he was tough on defense again and scored efficiently, but his 4 turnovers were sloppy.

I'm going to give Ant a pass on this game...whether it was the knee or the illness, he should not have been out there. And as other have said, Naz needs a break also. As I posted in another thread, the Wolves are in an ideal place...locked into 3rd and an almost certain first round match up with the Lakers missing Luka. I get that Finchy wants to keep his rotation guys sharp, but we just don't need our wounded guys right now. Sit them down, Finchy!

[Q-is-here]

At this point, Joan Beringer is nothing. Proven nothing. You can't bank on that.

Anybody that is talking about moving Rudy, is heavily short-sighted.

That guy is truly a third of our team.
You will never get back the value for him. If you're honest, he is the only reason this team makes the playoffs.

Without him, this team would be screwed.

The only idea behind moving Rudy would be a full reset, where the players would have to learn to defend without him cleaning it all up.

Untouchables go this way:
Ant, Rudy, Jaden, Ayo, SloMo

Anybody else can go.

Rudy is nearly 34 years old and signed through till 27'-28' when he'll be 36. Tell me again how it's "short sighted" to suggest that such a player isn't untouchable?

I'm certainly not arguing against his value to the team, and moving Rudy doesn't mean that you don't gain a replacement. This team needs to learn to run without Rudy because for all of his merits he has been a relatively poor playoff performer.

Again, I like Rudy and recognize what he brings to the team, but there is absolutely a world where it makes sense to move on earlier than later

I guess my "vision" with Rudy is that we gradually pull the band-aid off, meaning his minutes and games played (i.e. rest days) get gradually reduced over the next two seasons as we (hopefully) grow Beringer into the starting role by the time Rudy's contract is up. While he's pretty old, he takes immaculate care of his body and his length and mind for the game certainly aren't going anywhere.

But yeah, we need to wean ourselves off him at some point, but I prefer a taper versus going cold turkey! Again, all bets are off if someone like Giannis is targeted, but otherwise I'd prefer to keep Rudy around.

[FNG]

At this point, Joan Beringer is nothing. Proven nothing. You can't bank on that.

Anybody that is talking about moving Rudy, is heavily short-sighted.

That guy is truly a third of our team.
You will never get back the value for him. If you're honest, he is the only reason this team makes the playoffs.

Without him, this team would be screwed.

The only idea behind moving Rudy would be a full reset, where the players would have to learn to defend without him cleaning it all up.

Untouchables go this way:
Ant, Rudy, Jaden, Ayo, SloMo

Anybody else can go.

Rudy is nearly 34 years old and signed through till 27'-28' when he'll be 36. Tell me again how it's "short sighted" to suggest that such a player isn't untouchable?

I'm certainly not arguing against his value to the team, and moving Rudy doesn't mean that you don't gain a replacement. This team needs to learn to run without Rudy because for all of his merits he has been a relatively poor playoff performer.

Again, I like Rudy and recognize what he brings to the team, but there is absolutely a world where it makes sense to move on earlier than later

I guess my "vision" with Rudy is that we gradually pull the band-aid off, meaning his minutes and games played (i.e. rest days) get gradually reduced over the next two seasons as we (hopefully) grow Beringer into the starting role by the time Rudy's contract is up. While he's pretty old, he takes immaculate care of his body and his length and mind for the game certainly aren't going anywhere.

But yeah, we need to wean ourselves off him at some point, but I prefer a taper versus going cold turkey! Again, all bets are off if someone like Giannis is targeted, but otherwise I'd prefer to keep Rudy around.

I agree...going cold turkey would be a disaster. I'm optimistic about this team making a deep run this postseason...provided Jaden, Ant and Naz are okay. But I'm not as optimistic as many here about an Ant 2.0 that doesn't involve Rudy. Rudy's bad hands can be frustrating, but his value at both ends of the court is undeniable...just watch how his screens get so many open looks for Ant, Donte, and Ayo. Will Berenger ever provide any thing close to the defense, rebounding and elite screening Rudy provides? I doubt it, although I'm still not critical of TC drafting him. But we're going to have to find out sooner than later, so I expect him to get more backup minutes at center next season. And I think we are going to need Rudy to play a major role until his contract is up (and maybe even after if he is still playing well) to maximize and lengthen Ant 1.0, our best chance for a long-awaited championship.

[AussieWolf3]

Guys... There is range of options between Rudy or Beringer being the starting center.

Personally I have serious concerns about how Rudy plays against better teams, or even the playoffs. Anecdotally the results have been mixed and I recall seeing interesting stats about his performances here, but I don't remember exactly what it is. I'm curious to look into it more myself, but it isn't all the controversial to suggest that he's a regular season player. Which has value, but it's a problem if he's a load bearing pillar.

Last post season they overcame this until they couldn't, and it was a similar story the year before.

I agree with everything you've said about his strengths, but he's not the only player in the league capable of them either. He might be the only one with the level of extremes between his strengths and weaknesses, however, which makes roster construction difficult.

Moving on from him would be to move on from those constraints. Do I think they must do this? I'm not so sure, but he isn't untouchable.

Let me put it this way: if you could trade Gobert for draft picks or high end depth and then turn around to sign IHart, are you really telling me you wouldn't?

[Q-is-here]

Personally I have serious concerns about how Rudy plays against better teams, or even the playoffs. Anecdotally the results have been mixed and I recall seeing interesting stats about his performances here, but I don't remember exactly what it is. I'm curious to look into it more myself, but it isn't all the controversial to suggest that he's a regular season player. Which has value, but it's a problem if he's a load bearing pillar.

Last post season they overcame this until they couldn't, and it was a similar story the year before.

Rudy Net Rating data in the Playoffs for the Wolves:

'22-23: -4.8 (4th best on team in a 1st round series in which we won just one game)
'23-24: +9.8 overall (best net rating on the team); -3.1 net rating in Conference Finals against Dallas (2nd best on team)
'24-25: +8.0 ovreall (2nd best on the team); +5.0 net rating in Conference Finals against OKC (best on team)

He's overall been great in the playoffs even if some of the box score stats were down.

There is a caveat of course, which is that Finch felt the need to sit him more against OKC, as he only averaged ~ 26MPG against them. That in essence protected his positive net rating because Finch felt that he couldn't play him in certain situations that were disadvantageous. But of course we got absolutely killed in those minutes he sat anyway! Naz had a -12.9 net rating against OKC and was a total mess.

[Coolbreeze44]

By the way NAZ moves his shoulder and speaking from experience, I would bet he either has an impingement or a torn labrum. An impingement needs physical therapy and it can take some time to resolve itself. With a torn labrum, no amount of rest is going to make a difference. So I'm guessing it's the latter, and that is the reason he is playing.

[Coolbreeze44]

As far as Rudy goes, there is good Rudy and bad Rudy. He can be really effective when he's catching the rock and not being a hindrance on offense. He always brings it defensively, but if he can't be a functioning piece of a 5 man offense, I don't care how well he is playing defensively. Net rankings don't mean anything from game to game with this guy.