Okay, I'll do it - Wolves at 76ers GDT

[AussieWolf3]

If you think IHart and picks is remotely equal to Rudy for this team RS or PS, then you just are dumb. No need for further discussion.

Nice! Quality stuff. No more argument left to make so you flail about and insult me.

I'm sorry you weren't or aren't able to continue this discussion cause I thought it was very interesting

Yes, I did insult you. It was deserved. I have no more to say because your insight is ill-advised. You could bring in 2 or 3 players for the money spent on Rudy and they wouldn't be as important as he is to this team.

You should be talking about moving off of Naz..

Well gosh, if he's that good the team must have been in really great shape even through the recent slew of injuries!
I'll take you word for it and won't check their record in the last 10

[Wolvesfan21]

In my mind Rudy has been our MVP of the regular season since he's been here. He's just made that big a difference on defense.

While Ant has been our MVP of the playoffs because he has stepped up his defense in the playoffs and his offense too.

I'm not even sure we need to think about life after Rudy to be honest. He's on a relatively cheap contract and if he likes it here and we think he fits our roster going forward then sign him again to another even lower contract given his age and likely decline. I still don't think he's shown much decline honestly either.

[Coolbreeze44]

Rudy's struggles are so bad on offense some nights, you just cant deny that. When he plays decently on that end his value is undeniable. But his bad nights on "O" have a dramatic effect in my opinion. There is a reason he has sometimes become unplayable in both Utah and here.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Rudy's struggles are so bad on offense some nights, you just cant deny that. When he plays decently on that end his value is undeniable. But his bad nights on "O" have a dramatic effect in my opinion. There is a reason he has sometimes become unplayable in both Utah and here.

I saw something from Dane Moore that referenced the offensive efficiency splits with/without Gobert have become more obvious as the season has gone on.

To be fair, the entire team has been scuffling offensively without Edwards and McDaniels.

[rapsuperstar31]

Rudy's struggles are so bad on offense some nights, you just cant deny that. When he plays decently on that end his value is undeniable. But his bad nights on "O" have a dramatic effect in my opinion. There is a reason he has sometimes become unplayable in both Utah and here.

The one procession against Charlotte where Rudy misses the layup, Bones gets the rebound and could have scored but passes it to Rudy for an easy basket and Rudy misses the layup again we pretty ridiculous. Bones looks at Rudy like really, and Jaden can be seen on the bench grabbing his head and covering his eyes.

[FNG]

Rudy's struggles are so bad on offense some nights, you just cant deny that. When he plays decently on that end his value is undeniable. But his bad nights on "O" have a dramatic effect in my opinion. There is a reason he has sometimes become unplayable in both Utah and here.

I saw something from Dane Moore that referenced the offensive efficiency splits with/without Gobert have become more obvious as the season has gone on.

To be fair, the entire team has been scuffling offensively without Edwards and McDaniels.

I saw that too...113.7 on and 121.3 off. And his -7.6 offensive on/off is the worst on the team, and his personal worst since his first year in the league. I'm a Rudy apologist, so I'm going to support him for awhile and then finish by ripping him a little. Even though his offensive on/off is so bad, it's more than offset by his team-best -11.1 defensive on/off...only Donte is better than Rudy's net +3.5 on/off. And there are ways he is very helpful on offense, most importantly his screening is quite instrumental in getting Ant open looks, and his 4 offensive rebounds per game is the best of his career. Another thing we don't mention enough here: he's a terrific "escape valve" when a teammate finds himself in trouble. He reacts by getting to a place where he can receive a pass that prevents a turnover, and for some reason, his hands are just fine in this situation.

But the numbers don't lie, so why is he such a burden offensively this season compared to other years? I'll make another apology for him...as Abe said, his minutes with Ant are way down this season. His 115.5 offensive rating with Ant is not too bad, but his minutes are far less. But I see two main areas where he is killing us on offense. His 52.5 free throw percentage is by far the worst of his career (except for a disastrous first season) and a full 15 percentage points worse than last season. Sure, Rudy drawing fouls helps us get in the bonus earlier, but his misses lead to too many either empty possessions or ones where we only get one point. The second problem is he is not a strong finisher around the basket (if he even catches the ball, although his 1.4 turnovers per game is lower than his career average), and his dunk percentage is 6 percentage points lower than last year. He needs to go up stronger around the basket.

So do we need Rudy? Of course...he remains a tremendous defensive force and rebounder. But his offensive game is difficult to watch much of the time and not as productive as it has been in prior seasons.

[Coolbreeze44]

Rudy's overall metrics and splits don't mean a lot to me. it's a case where stats can lie. His performance on a given night offensively can vary so drastically. He can be terrible, decent, or in some cases really good. So the overall stats come out somewhere in the middle. But what about those nights when he can't catch or finish in tight? We all know that happens to him, and on those nights he really hurts our chances of winning playoff games because we have to rely on him for defense. And in a playoff series, 2 or 3 of those type games gets you eliminated.

[AussieWolf3]

Rudy's overall metrics and splits don't mean a lot to me. it's a case where stats can lie. His performance on a given night offensively can vary so drastically. He can be terrible, decent, or in some cases really good. So the overall stats come out somewhere in the middle. But what about those nights when he can't catch or finish in tight? We all know that happens to him, and on those nights he really hurts our chances of winning playoff games because we have to rely on him for defense. And in a playoff series, 2 or 3 of those type games gets you eliminated.

Rudy is and has been one of the biggest stress tests for a more analytical approach to basketball. No matter what method you use, when you put it all on paper with him the numbers say he comes out as a big net positive.
But all of us and the players playing the game aren't robots and they're not running algorithmic decisions every play. "Trust the process" can be a hard sell when you feed him on the short roll 3 out of 4 possessions and they all end up in TOs.

To be clear I have not nor am I saying the team should trade Rudy. I just don't think he's untouchable.

Lastly, I'm kind of over believing on/off is useful tool. It can illuminate some elements of how a roster is playing but I don't think it is at constructive at telling us who the best players are.

During his seasons with KAT, Rudy defensive on/off was -3.2 (negative being good in this case). So he was still important for the defense but the drop-off was much less significant being an actual center could be on the floor when we wasn't.

[FNG]

Rudy's overall metrics and splits don't mean a lot to me. it's a case where stats can lie. His performance on a given night offensively can vary so drastically. He can be terrible, decent, or in some cases really good. So the overall stats come out somewhere in the middle. But what about those nights when he can't catch or finish in tight? We all know that happens to him, and on those nights he really hurts our chances of winning playoff games because we have to rely on him for defense. And in a playoff series, 2 or 3 of those type games gets you eliminated.

Rudy is and has been one of the biggest stress tests for a more analytical approach to basketball. No matter what method you use, when you put it all on paper with him the numbers say he comes out as a big net positive.
But all of us and the players playing the game aren't robots and they're not running algorithmic decisions every play. "Trust the process" can be a hard sell when you feed him on the short roll 3 out of 4 possessions and they all end up in TOs.

To be clear I have not nor am I saying the team should trade Rudy. I just don't think he's untouchable.

Lastly, I'm kind of over believing on/off is useful tool. It can illuminate some elements of how a roster is playing but I don't think it is at constructive at telling us who the best players are.

During his seasons with KAT, Rudy defensive on/off was -3.2 (negative being good in this case). So he was still important for the defense but the drop-off was much less significant being an actual center could be on the floor when we wasn't.

I won't say Rudy doesn't frustrate me sometimes also, Aussie...his mistakes are so much more glaring than his teammates. He's clumsy! But I think the fact that his errors are so glaring causes us to overestimate his turnovers. Case in point: you say 3 out of his 4 short rolls end up in turnovers. But guess which T-Wolf starter has the fewest turnovers per game. That's right...Rudy at only 1.4 per game. Some might argue he doesn't touch the ball as much, but watch...he presents himself so well when a teammate is in trouble or trying to inbound, he touches the ball more than we might think. Yeah, I throw things at the TV sometimes when he kicks one out of bounds, but is just north of one turnover per game a big problem?

As for on/off, I recognize I'm likely the biggest proponent here. I will say though that the analysts on NBA Radio quote it far more than I do, and some like Scalabrine cite it as one of the most important criteria in determining MVP. I almost always find players who excel in this measure are players I admire as huge contributors. You may be done believing it's a useful tool in determining value, but it's difficult to conclude that when you look at the top 4 on/off performers this season with more than 1000 minutes...Jokic, Wemby, Giannis, and Kawhi!

(Don't make me name #5...it may not help my narrative )