Stake your claim

[FNG]

I should say, I'm not really sure where I would place Ant in the so called top 10. Such debates are fun but often overly arbitrary.
I was just pointing out, albeit pedantically, that it's not a homer take to rank Ant inside the top 10--- it's just general consensus.

All that said, I don't really disagree with anything your have to say FNG. Ant doesn't measure up super well in the stats you've laid out and that frustrating even if those stats are flawed. You are also correct that Ant grades out pretty well in most hyper analytical metrics like DMP, in which he is 6th. I'm hoping to do a "player review" series this off season and I'll be able to touch more on the numbers.

But for what it's worth, I think it's pretty valid to drop Ant a few or several spots because of the inconsistent effort. He's one of the most simultaneously entertaining and frustrating superstars I've ever watched, and I hate the whole "flip a switch" idea. At best it's misguided, at worst it's a loser mindset and in any case it's extremely arrogant.

If Ant want to stake his reputation on what he does in the playoffs, than he better bring it in 2026, cause in all honesty he's let his team down this year

Yeah, we both hate the "flip the switch" thing and hope it happens again this postseason! I like our supporting cast, so if Ant can play like a 2-way top 5 guy in the playoffs, we may surprise again. He has the potential I think.

[rapsuperstar31]

Obviously growth isn't constant, Ant could have peaked and he might still keep getting better. He just had his best offensive season ever so he is still getting better. Defensively not so much, but I do think when we decide to put a real point guard next to Ant in the future, we will get a more consistent defender from Ant in the regular season just like he was good next to Mike for the two years prior. Wemby is a rare case of a 22 year old already being one of the best players in the league. SGA the MVP didn't make the playoffs at 23 or 24 years old. Luka who has been considered top 3 MVP multiple years, didn't make the playoffs at 24, is 3 years older than Ant and has been to the WCF the same amount of times as Ant, and more than likely won't see the 2nd round for the 3rd time in 4 seasons . Giannis often in the top 5 MVP discussion hasn't sniffed the 2nd round in 4 years. Joker 3 time MVP, hasn't gotten out of the 2nd round two years in a row. Hell what if big bad Wemby loses to either Denver or Ant and the Wolves in the 2nd round this year? Maybe Wemby isn't quite there yet, if that happens. Ant at 24 doesn't need to be this perfect player, but with some of choices we've made like trading for Rudy who is now 33 years old our clock is ticking with this roster as currently constructed.

[Wolvesfan21]

Obviously growth isn't constant, Ant could have peaked and he might still keep getting better. He just had his best offensive season ever so he is still getting better. Defensively not so much, but I do think when we decide to put a real point guard next to Ant in the future, we will get a more consistent defender from Ant in the regular season just like he was good next to Mike for the two years prior. Wemby is a rare case of a 22 year old already being one of the best players in the league. SGA the MVP didn't make the playoffs at 23 or 24 years old. Luka who has been considered top 3 MVP multiple years, didn't make the playoffs at 24, is 3 years older than Ant and has been to the WCF the same amount of times as Ant, and more than likely won't see the 2nd round for the 3rd time in 4 seasons . Giannis often in the top 5 MVP discussion hasn't sniffed the 2nd round in 4 years. Joker 3 time MVP, hasn't gotten out of the 2nd round two years in a row. Hell what if big bad Wemby loses to either Denver or Ant and the Wolves in the 2nd round this year? Maybe Wemby isn't quite there yet, if that happens. Ant at 24 doesn't need to be this perfect player, but with some of choices we've made like trading for Rudy who is now 33 years old our clock is ticking with this roster as currently constructed.

The MVP trophy is a bit silly to me. Voters get tired of handing it to the same guy and vote someone else, it's always been that way.

To me Joker is the MVP. Sure you can poke at his lack of defense, for sure he's mediocre at best.

But he is 1st in Rebounds per game, 1st in Assists, 8th in PPG and even doing all that shooting 57%. It's not even close to me he is a far better player then SGA and better season. SGA has a better surrounding talent, depth and probably coach. So I excuse the W/L record.

But who moves the needle more? Joker.

[Q-is-here]

Ant at 24 doesn't need to be this perfect player, but with some of choices we've made like trading for Rudy who is now 33 years old our clock is ticking with this roster as currently constructed.

Agree, which is why I think most of us feel like fairly significant changes will take place this offseason.

[TheFuture]

Ant at 24 doesn't need to be this perfect player, but with some of choices we've made like trading for Rudy who is now 33 years old our clock is ticking with this roster as currently constructed.

Agree, which is why I think most of us feel like fairly significant changes will take place this offseason.

I think keeping Rudy is not only very important for the team right now, but also Beringer's development. So I wouldn't want it to be him.

After reading the article posted about how close Ant, Jaden, and Naz are. I wouldn't move Reid and create unnecessary chaos.

It will have to be Randle.

[Q-is-here]

Ant at 24 doesn't need to be this perfect player, but with some of choices we've made like trading for Rudy who is now 33 years old our clock is ticking with this roster as currently constructed.

Agree, which is why I think most of us feel like fairly significant changes will take place this offseason.

I think keeping Rudy is not only very important for the team right now, but also Beringer's development. So I wouldn't want it to be him.

After reading the article posted about how close Ant, Jaden, and Naz are. I wouldn't move Reid and create unnecessary chaos.

It will have to be Randle.

I definitely think Randle is more likely to be moved than Naz, but these guys have all been around the block long enough to know that the trio could be broken up at the drop of a hat and it isn't personal.

I personally think we need a total re-vamp of the PF position and both should be moved. I like Naz on paper next to a defensive Center like Rudy or Joan, but his game-to-game floor is so low that he becomes almost unplayable at times (recall the OKC series last year). You simply can't have a starting PF making that kind of money that plays himself off the floor due to complete ineptness on both ends of the floor every 4th or 5th game.

[end of Naz rant]

[TheFuture]

Agree, which is why I think most of us feel like fairly significant changes will take place this offseason.

I think keeping Rudy is not only very important for the team right now, but also Beringer's development. So I wouldn't want it to be him.

After reading the article posted about how close Ant, Jaden, and Naz are. I wouldn't move Reid and create unnecessary chaos.

It will have to be Randle.

I definitely think Randle is more likely to be moved than Naz, but these guys have all been around the block long enough to know that the trio could be broken up at the drop of a hat and it isn't personal.

I personally think we need a total re-vamp of the PF position and both should be moved. I like Naz on paper next to a defensive Center like Rudy or Joan, but his game-to-game floor is so low that he becomes almost unplayable at times (recall the OKC series last year). You simply can't have a starting PF making that kind of money that plays himself off the floor due to complete ineptness on both ends of the floor every 4th or 5th game.

[end of Naz rant]

That's 100% fair, and I'm with you there about Naz. But teams have always spent to keep their most critical piece, or two, happy. Especially franchises that never get any player to even entertain walking in for FA unless it's to better their bargaining hand elsewhere.

I do casually wonder if Naz could put up a 20/7/3 with 1.5stocks line if he was the starting 4. That wouldn't be bad at 20ish mil.

He's more finesse/art than bully like Randle on O and D. So he will never pony up on defense on a Jokic or Wemby. But for 10mil less? It does make you question. Especially when his deep shot his 100% prettier, and when he's got it going. It is a flame show.

I don't even dislike Randle. Cause when he's got it going, he's going to punish a team and create for his own team. But I hate the sulking and it takes it's toll on a team.

I actually really like our backcourt right now, and feel the need to retain all of Ayo, DDV, Bones for 3+ years. Though I wouldn't ward off improving with a true traditional pg, but I can't quite wrap my head around how Ant would actually work with a Chris Paul archetype. So I kind of dismiss that notion.

If the team removed Randle and retained Anderson, would we have enough playmaking and scoring to go around? I think so.

Rudy/Beringer
Reid/Anderson
Jaden/TSJ
Ant/DDV
Ayo/Bones

A trade I had thought up was as such:

CHA OUT: Bridges, Salaun, McNeely, one of their 3 2027 1sts.
CHA IN: Randle, Levert

DET OUT: P. Reed, Levert, #21, and a future 1st.
DET IN: Bridges

MN OUT: Randle
MN IN: Paul Reed, Salaun, McNeely, 3 1sts

CHA upgrades at PF, secondary playmaking, and gets some strength down low. LeVert is a good SG who will be expiring.

DET doesn't give up much at all to land a secondary scorer they lack. Bridges fits well next to Duren.

MN doesn't get the quality of player back for Randle that many would hope, but they get some young prospects, some late draft shots, open up cap so they can retain Ayo, Bones, Anderson while opening up the option to make other moves, and get Reed who can be a good backup at PF or C. Salauns contract is odd though. PO before the TO. Highly likely he takes it.

I'm not terribly worried about this lineup being successful:

Gobert/Reed/Beringer
Reid/Anderson/Salaun
McDaniels/TSJ/McNeely
Ant/DDV/Clark
Ayo/Bones

That's 14.

Then you have Rocco, #21, #29 this year, 2 future firsts, and whatever cap left. MLEs, whatever. I'm not great with that cap hoopla. Do with it what you will.

[AussieWolf3]

I think overall that team is probably worse than the current roster but more forward looking so I wouldn't have any problem with it.

Personally I believe the gamble on Ried as the starting PF is worth it. There are two caveats, however, don't play him as a center anymore at all and can he have the positional flexibility to play as wing from time to time?

If the answer to either of those is a no than I think a trade is more prudent but not necessary.

The other gamble this roster construction makes, at least in order to reach its ceiling, is can TSJ be your 6th man? The way he's played in the last two games says he can, but that's a extremely small sample. Regardless, they have shown that would be his ideal role and one in which he would be quite capable imo.

At the end of the day this team probably needs an identity shift with a much more spread out look, removing Randle goes a long way towards that end

[TheFuture]

I think overall that team is probably worse than the current roster but more forward looking so I wouldn't have any problem with it.

Personally I believe the gamble on Ried as the starting PF is worth it. There are two caveats, however, don't play him as a center anymore at all and can he have the positional flexibility to play as wing from time to time?

If the answer to either of those is a no than I think a trade is more prudent but not necessary.

The other gamble this roster construction makes, at least in order to reach its ceiling, is can TSJ be your 6th man? The way he's played in the last two games says he can, but that's a extremely small sample. Regardless, they have shown that would be his ideal role and one in which he would be quite capable imo.

At the end of the day this team probably needs an identity shift with a much more spread out look, removing Randle goes a long way towards that end

In the scenario I laid out, DDV is the 6th man. Bones,TSJ, Anderson, Reed, Clark, Beringer in whichever order are the 7-12 slots.

As for Reid, this roster says C never and Wing likely not. Just a full-time starter spacing PF.

[AussieWolf3]

I think overall that team is probably worse than the current roster but more forward looking so I wouldn't have any problem with it.

Personally I believe the gamble on Ried as the starting PF is worth it. There are two caveats, however, don't play him as a center anymore at all and can he have the positional flexibility to play as wing from time to time?

If the answer to either of those is a no than I think a trade is more prudent but not necessary.

The other gamble this roster construction makes, at least in order to reach its ceiling, is can TSJ be your 6th man? The way he's played in the last two games says he can, but that's a extremely small sample. Regardless, they have shown that would be his ideal role and one in which he would be quite capable imo.

At the end of the day this team probably needs an identity shift with a much more spread out look, removing Randle goes a long way towards that end

In the scenario I laid out, DDV is the 6th man. Bones,TSJ, Anderson, Reed, Clark, Beringer in whichever order are the 7-12 slots.

As for Reid, this roster says C never and Wing likely not. Just a full-time starter spacing PF.

Ahhh, yes you're right, I neglected DDV. My point about TJ is that he would be key to unlocking that rosters ceiling

RE Naz: that wasn't really my point. What I'm saying is that if I'm to be convinced that he is still worth gambling on, especially as a starter, than he needs to have more positional flexibility and therefore lineup flexibility than just being a PF. Cause he is not going to be good enough as just a pure power forward to rolling with him imo and you'd be better served trading him