How do we D’Angelo Randle?

[AussieWolf3]

Jaden was great this year no question. But who faces the toughest defender and most doubles in the league? Ant does. Even Ju collapses the defense and creates open space. Jaden simply is not defended like these other guys. Just watch the games and see. He is also still too inconsistent night to night and gets in foul trouble still too much. We can't have these off nights where he doesn't show up.

Still I think he's a great player, but you're asking too much for him to now become an All Star / borderline All Star and win a championship being that "number 2" behind Ant. I think if defenses keyed on him and he's asked to do too much, then things go the other way too often.

I'm not asking him to do that. I'm asking the team to reprioritize the roles on this team and make him a big part of the offensive game plan and to have an entirely different role on defense.
The upside there is that you unlock his full potential and he can be a championship number two. More likely you find that he's extremely adept at this but you still need a shot creator, and perhaps by the trade deadline that opportunity opens up.

I'm sure in the end we just disagree with my assessment of Jaden, that's fine, but you seem to be consistently missing my entire point.

And it's funny you bring up his "inconsistency" and foul trouble.... Well what do you think being asked to be the primary point of attack defender sets him up to do? And again... The inconsistency, the dude has almost never been given opportunities on offense and yet has consistently forced the issue year after year and gotten better. Even this year, was he really the team's 3rd option on offense? I'd say no yet he still averaged, what 15 ppg?

I'm aware of the fact that Ant sees the hardest defense, that won't change. Jaden will still draw lesser defenders in the scenario I've described, and I've also given evidence for the fact that he should still handle that perfectly fine. What evidence have you put forth to support your claim?

Want more? Jaden's rim FG differential --- so the percentage that he alters the expected FG% on defense for shots at the rim--- was -10.7%. Wemby's was less than 9 this year; Rudy was less than 8 and Chet who was league best on volume was -15. This suggest that Jaden is capable of altering shots at the rim at the same level as some of the best in the league. He had a better block rate than every player on this list save for Chet. The only reason he isn't a low man defender more often is because he is also the team's best wing defender and Jaden is a selfless player. Imagine having a defensive weapon who is completely switchable, an extremely capable shot blocker, and has GREAT instincts and all his time and energy is wasted running through screen ---which he's really good at by the way.

On offense he has developed a legit bankable mid range shot that pretty much feels automatic at this point and it's basically unguardable at this point cause of his height, he finished at the rim with a 71.5% FG rate, and he one of the teams best interior playmakers.

I would bet real money right now that if given this opportunity he would at least make an all-star as soon as next year.

I don't think fans of this team realize how toxic the Rudy/Randle combination is for this team's offense. You can have one of them, but both of them is lethal

Let's say hypothetically we trade Ju for wing defender and Jaden pops into this 22-24 PPG scorer Robin to Ants Batman. I still think we're missing a punch to beat OKC and SA. I don't see it translating enough. Now if you fire Finch and get a coach in here that gets these guys to play up to their potential then maybe we got a shot Or I still see a bigger trade needed.

A small retool around the mostly same lot does almost nothing for me.

If nothing else changes then yes, you will still behind the top competition, I haven't said otherwise.

But I things we've talked this out enough. This will be an extremely important off-season for this team

[Wolvesfan21]

I'm not asking him to do that. I'm asking the team to reprioritize the roles on this team and make him a big part of the offensive game plan and to have an entirely different role on defense.
The upside there is that you unlock his full potential and he can be a championship number two. More likely you find that he's extremely adept at this but you still need a shot creator, and perhaps by the trade deadline that opportunity opens up.

I'm sure in the end we just disagree with my assessment of Jaden, that's fine, but you seem to be consistently missing my entire point.

And it's funny you bring up his "inconsistency" and foul trouble.... Well what do you think being asked to be the primary point of attack defender sets him up to do? And again... The inconsistency, the dude has almost never been given opportunities on offense and yet has consistently forced the issue year after year and gotten better. Even this year, was he really the team's 3rd option on offense? I'd say no yet he still averaged, what 15 ppg?

I'm aware of the fact that Ant sees the hardest defense, that won't change. Jaden will still draw lesser defenders in the scenario I've described, and I've also given evidence for the fact that he should still handle that perfectly fine. What evidence have you put forth to support your claim?

Want more? Jaden's rim FG differential --- so the percentage that he alters the expected FG% on defense for shots at the rim--- was -10.7%. Wemby's was less than 9 this year; Rudy was less than 8 and Chet who was league best on volume was -15. This suggest that Jaden is capable of altering shots at the rim at the same level as some of the best in the league. He had a better block rate than every player on this list save for Chet. The only reason he isn't a low man defender more often is because he is also the team's best wing defender and Jaden is a selfless player. Imagine having a defensive weapon who is completely switchable, an extremely capable shot blocker, and has GREAT instincts and all his time and energy is wasted running through screen ---which he's really good at by the way.

On offense he has developed a legit bankable mid range shot that pretty much feels automatic at this point and it's basically unguardable at this point cause of his height, he finished at the rim with a 71.5% FG rate, and he one of the teams best interior playmakers.

I would bet real money right now that if given this opportunity he would at least make an all-star as soon as next year.

I don't think fans of this team realize how toxic the Rudy/Randle combination is for this team's offense. You can have one of them, but both of them is lethal

Let's say hypothetically we trade Ju for wing defender and Jaden pops into this 22-24 PPG scorer Robin to Ants Batman. I still think we're missing a punch to beat OKC and SA. I don't see it translating enough. Now if you fire Finch and get a coach in here that gets these guys to play up to their potential then maybe we got a shot Or I still see a bigger trade needed.

A small retool around the mostly same lot does almost nothing for me.

If nothing else changes then yes, you will still behind the top competition, I haven't said otherwise.

But I things we've talked this out enough. This will be an extremely important off-season for this team

"Jaden simply is not defended like these other guys. Just watch the games and see. He is also still too inconsistent night to night and gets in foul trouble still too much. We can't have these off nights where he doesn't show up."

I wrote this this morning. A couple garbage time buckets doesn't cut it.

[AussieWolf3]

Let's say hypothetically we trade Ju for wing defender and Jaden pops into this 22-24 PPG scorer Robin to Ants Batman. I still think we're missing a punch to beat OKC and SA. I don't see it translating enough. Now if you fire Finch and get a coach in here that gets these guys to play up to their potential then maybe we got a shot Or I still see a bigger trade needed.

A small retool around the mostly same lot does almost nothing for me.

If nothing else changes then yes, you will still behind the top competition, I haven't said otherwise.

But I things we've talked this out enough. This will be an extremely important off-season for this team

"Jaden simply is not defended like these other guys. Just watch the games and see. He is also still too inconsistent night to night and gets in foul trouble still too much. We can't have these off nights where he doesn't show up."

I wrote this this morning. A couple garbage time buckets doesn't cut it.

Completely predictable to come in for a gotcha after this game, while still missing my entire point

[Wolvesfan21]

If nothing else changes then yes, you will still behind the top competition, I haven't said otherwise.

But I things we've talked this out enough. This will be an extremely important off-season for this team

"Jaden simply is not defended like these other guys. Just watch the games and see. He is also still too inconsistent night to night and gets in foul trouble still too much. We can't have these off nights where he doesn't show up."

I wrote this this morning. A couple garbage time buckets doesn't cut it.

Completely predictable to come in for a gotcha after this game, while still missing my entire point

Because he's not a offensive superstar. Nothing wrong with it, it's just not his game.

The good thing with him is he has continued to get better on offense while providing valuable defense most nights. I think we can expand his role a bit more next year, but not to what you're asking. Thats way too much imo.

[Wolvesfan21]

On ESPN Get Up this morning they cooked Randle for his lack of defense in game 6. It looked like he quit. He's 100% getting traded, I'd send Finch with him too if I were TC/ARod/Lore.

[Q-is-here]

On ESPN Get Up this morning they cooked Randle for his lack of defense in game 6. It looked like he quit. He's 100% getting traded, I'd send Finch with him too if I were TC/ARod/Lore.

You have to wonder what Randle's value is going to be after ending with such a terrible post-season run.

In Finch's defense, perhaps his thought process was that as long as Randle was on the team, the only way to maximize him is to utilize him as an offensive engine (along with Ant). I mean, what other role could he play? He's not a 3&D type that you can just tell to go stand in the corner, as defenses don't respect his outside shot. And we were actually a really good offense with him on the floor during the regular season.

Finch tried to make the most of the roster Connelly handed to him and he succeeded for the most part until we ran into the buzzsaw of OKC last year and the Spurs this year. There is no way Pat Riley or John Wooden or Phil Jackson or [name some other legendary coach] takes the roster and injuries we had and beats the Spurs in a 7-game series.

[rapsuperstar31]

On ESPN Get Up this morning they cooked Randle for his lack of defense in game 6. It looked like he quit. He's 100% getting traded, I'd send Finch with him too if I were TC/ARod/Lore.

You have to wonder what Randle's value is going to be after ending with such a terrible post-season run.

In Finch's defense, perhaps his thought process was that as long as Randle was on the team, the only way to maximize him is to utilize him as an offensive engine (along with Ant). I mean, what other role could he play? He's not a 3&D type that you can just tell to go stand in the corner, as defenses don't respect his outside shot. And we were actually a really good offense with him on the floor during the regular season.

Finch tried to make the most of the roster Connelly handed to him and he succeeded for the most part until we ran into the buzzsaw of OKC last year and the Spurs this year. There is no way Pat Riley or John Wooden or Phil Jackson or [name some other legendary coach] takes the roster and injuries we had and beats the Spurs in a 7-game series.

I mean look at what Portland's PF's and starting C did against San Antonio. Jerami Grant 34.9% from the field, and 33.3% from three avering .4 assists per game. Camara 28.9% from the field and 25.9% from three. Clingan 30.4% from the field and 20% from three. Let's wait and see how the best team last year in OKC does with Wemby in the paint.

Plenty of players did awful in the playoffs Suggs put up 29.9% from the field and 24.1% from three against Detroit. Tobias Harris just put up 38.7% from the field and 29.6% from three against a pretty meh defense in Cleveland, including killing them in the last 4 games. Derrick White put up 32.1% from the field and 27.3% from three against Philly. Reed Sheppard put up 30.7% from the field and 29.6% from three against the Lakers meh defense. We held Jamal Murray to 35.7% from the field and 26.2% from three in our series.

Randle was okay against Denver, should have done more once Ant and Donte went down but he wasn't bad. He hit some bigs shots at the end of game 1 against San Antonio, and than had a bad series. There will be a team, probably in the East that say's he we don't have to go against Wemby or OKC until we get to the finals, Randle has value to us.

[Q-is-here]

On ESPN Get Up this morning they cooked Randle for his lack of defense in game 6. It looked like he quit. He's 100% getting traded, I'd send Finch with him too if I were TC/ARod/Lore.

You have to wonder what Randle's value is going to be after ending with such a terrible post-season run.

In Finch's defense, perhaps his thought process was that as long as Randle was on the team, the only way to maximize him is to utilize him as an offensive engine (along with Ant). I mean, what other role could he play? He's not a 3&D type that you can just tell to go stand in the corner, as defenses don't respect his outside shot. And we were actually a really good offense with him on the floor during the regular season.

Finch tried to make the most of the roster Connelly handed to him and he succeeded for the most part until we ran into the buzzsaw of OKC last year and the Spurs this year. There is no way Pat Riley or John Wooden or Phil Jackson or [name some other legendary coach] takes the roster and injuries we had and beats the Spurs in a 7-game series.

I mean look at what Portland's PF's and starting C did against San Antonio. Jerami Grant 34.9% from the field, and 33.3% from three avering .4 assists per game. Camara 28.9% from the field and 25.9% from three. Clingan 30.4% from the field and 20% from three. Let's wait and see how the best team last year in OKC does with Wemby in the paint.

Plenty of players did awful in the playoffs Suggs put up 29.9% from the field and 24.1% from three against Detroit. Tobias Harris just put up 38.7% from the field and 29.6% from three against a pretty meh defense in Cleveland, including killing them in the last 4 games. Derrick White put up 32.1% from the field and 27.3% from three against Philly. Reed Sheppard put up 30.7% from the field and 29.6% from three against the Lakers meh defense. We held Jamal Murray to 35.7% from the field and 26.2% from three in our series.

Randle was okay against Denver, should have done more once Ant and Donte went down but he wasn't bad. He hit some bigs shots at the end of game 1 against San Antonio, and than had a bad series. There will be a team, probably in the East that say's he we don't have to go against Wemby or OKC until we get to the finals, Randle has value to us.

Good points - Wemby is just insanely good defensively. I guess my issue with Randle's value isn't just how he did against the Spurs, but how he's been pretty underwhelming since around mid-season. He was "good enough" in Denver to win the series, but the real stars were Rudy, Jaden, and the patchwork of guards that stepped up. He hasn't really been a driving force in winning important games since the Golden State series last year. Since then he got trashed by OKC, was underwhelming against Denver, and trashed again by the Spurs.

Perhaps there is some Eastern Conference team that is just tired of either losing all the time (Washington?) or being mired in mediocrity (Chicago?) that they are willing to accept his limitations just to help raise their regular season floor and take on some usage as they try to develop younger guys. Miami is the other franchise that seems willing to take on uneven underachievers (like Wiggins) and try to make the most of them.

[Wolvesfan21]

On ESPN Get Up this morning they cooked Randle for his lack of defense in game 6. It looked like he quit. He's 100% getting traded, I'd send Finch with him too if I were TC/ARod/Lore.

You have to wonder what Randle's value is going to be after ending with such a terrible post-season run.

In Finch's defense, perhaps his thought process was that as long as Randle was on the team, the only way to maximize him is to utilize him as an offensive engine (along with Ant). I mean, what other role could he play? He's not a 3&D type that you can just tell to go stand in the corner, as defenses don't respect his outside shot. And we were actually a really good offense with him on the floor during the regular season.

Finch tried to make the most of the roster Connelly handed to him and he succeeded for the most part until we ran into the buzzsaw of OKC last year and the Spurs this year. There is no way Pat Riley or John Wooden or Phil Jackson or [name some other legendary coach] takes the roster and injuries we had and beats the Spurs in a 7-game series.

Listening to different podcasts over the years it seems like Finch was a huge reason why Randle was here and played so many minutes. So I'm not sure "blaming TC" entirely makes sense to me actually. I think maybe that's why the divide in the locker room seemed so large. It seemed to me a bit of the Finch/Randle camp versus the Ant/Jaden/Naz one.

[Phenom]

It seems highly likely that Julius will be moved this offseason. It is kind of too bad since he seems like a really good dude and his family seems to have really taken to the Twin Cities but his place on the team has become toxic among fans and possibly his teammates.

The bigger question to me is who wants him and what would be coming back. He would probably have to be salary filler in a Giannis trade but it seems like Giannis or maybe Kyrie would need to force their way to Minnesota to make Julius a principle in the deal. Jaden and/or Naz probably go out in those deals.

These seem more realistic to me:

Julius for Jonathan Kuminga and Buddy Hield. Not sure what the Hawks actually think of JK but they are pretty deficient for bigs. Neither guy moves the needle for the Wolves, I think.

Julius for Nic Claxton and maybe another salary. The Nets need to raise their floor for next season, although being bottom 3 when you don't own your pick isn't a terrible option anymore. Julius can do enough to help them win some more games.Claxton would provide some needed energy in the Wolves front court.

Julius for Patrick Williams and Jalen Smith. The Bulls would probably do it to dump Williams. Jalen Smith is the piece that would be worthwhile for the Wolves.

Julius (and Donte) for Ja. This could be a dead end trade for both teams when the market for Julius and Ja don't go anywhere.

Julius for Jalen Green?

Julius and Donte for DeRozan and Monk. I think DDR would be nice off the bench and Monk could take over DDV spot. This would be probably need to be a 3 team trade sending Sabonis elsewhere which seems plausible.


I don't see much else out there.