What do we need?

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Everybody's got an opinion on who they like or don't like, players and coaches, but I think the best way to move forward is to first think about what skills we need to improve on. Then it makes more sense to consider who to trade away and who to target based on those skills.

So, what would you say are our biggest needs?

I'd say one of our biggest needs is to find a big who gives us both outside shooting + defense. I don't think anyone will be able to beat Spurs or Thunder in a 7 game series without being able to legitimately put 4-5 shooters on the floor while preserving pretty good defense. The closest we came in that series was with Naz and Randle in the frontcourt, but both Randle and Jaden were practically nonshooters, and our defense just wasn't good enough at the same time. Who could reasonably fill that role for us? Internally, I love Beringer's defense, but his shot looks f-ugly. Rocco shows some promise as a shooter, but he's really young and slow as molasses. Externally, how about Myles Turner? He's getting a little older, but I bet he'd be available if the Bucks trade Giannis and rebuild.

The next thing I'd say is a high need is another ballhandler + shot creator. Going from KAT to Randle did give us some of this, but it comes with a good amount of turnovers and not enough outside shooting or defense. If we can resign him, Ayo should help fill Donte's absence, but I do agree we need somebody who is more of a threat to score or create a shot for others with the ball in their hands. I'm not sure TJ is the answer there. I've always liked the idea of Jrue Holiday. He's getting old, but he's still a really good player. I remember musing about Harden at the trade deadline, and in retrospect, a Randle for Harden trade probably would have helped us, although I don't like his defense, and I don't think he'd help our chemistry. I'd be surprised if Portland would move Jrue, but maybe with Dame coming back? I know Dane Moore has floated Kyrie, and he'd definitely be more of a shot-creator than Jrue, who is more of a facilitator. But it's a question of whether that's worth the trade off in terms of defense.


So to me, I think if we did find a way to turn Randle and Gobert into someone like Myles Turner and Jrue Holiday and re-sign Ayo, I think that could be a solid re-orientation towards those goals I'd have for our biggest needs. We'd be able to stretch the floor better while still defending, and we'd have another ballhandler to come in and take some pressure off Ant, who would still give us size and defense as well.

Starters: Holiday (?), Ant, Jaden, Naz, Turner (?).
Bench: Ayo, TJ, Beringer, and Clark off the bench. Maybe we can get Bones back. Keep developing Rocco and pick up vets to round out the roster. Then, hopefully, you get Donte back for the playoffs?

That's not a team high on star power. I think our defense would take a hit without Rudy. Yeah, I'd rather stay a bit younger and keep our athleticism. If there are younger versions of those two guys out there, I'd definitely be interested. But it's tough to find guys like that who are realistically attainable. Or maybe our front office is good enough to be able to identify those guys on other rosters before they actually become good and we roll the dice and get lucky?

Even if it's not those exact guys, but two guys who would give you what Jrue and Turner bring, I do think that a roster like that seems balanced and flexible, the weird chemistry stuff around Rudy and Randle would be gone, and I think the biggest thing is that that team would likely have the ability to do three key things simultaneously:

1) space the floor,
2) defend,
3) have another ballhandler to play alongside Ant who won't turn it over so much and will still give us defense.

BTW, I think coaching is important, and I think Finch is a good coach. He's not perfect, but he's clearly good and almost certainly better than anybody else out there we could get, so I'd absolutely stick with Finch.


What do you guys think? What skills would you say are our biggest needs? How could imagine we could fulfill them?

[AussieWolf3]

This is a great premise!
Not too dissimilar from how I've been bouncing it around in my head, asking what the roles are and how they are being filled or can be filled. Id put them like this

Offensive engine - Ant
Floor manager -
Floor spacers - Naz, Ant, Dante*
Secondary scorer - Jaden, Naz, TJ
Defensive anchor - Rudy
Wing stoppers - TJ
Help defenders - Ant, Naz
Rebounder - Rudy, Naz

Think what you will of this list, I'm sure they're not necessarily all the industry terms but that's how I think of it.
I placed players into slots where we know they'll be and left off players who aren't certain to be on the team --- Ayo ---- or who's role MUST change if they stay on the team ----Julius---. Folks will also notice that Jaden isn't a wing defender here. Given how often I've talked about this, I'm sure it won't surprise anyone what I think should happen

I like thinking about things like this because then you can look at how and who can fill multiple spots, can we have a defensive anchor who is also a great floor manager? How about an anchor who spaces the floor?

I think the team is in a rather pivotal spot, which is pretty much the coldest possible take, but real and deliberate decisions need to be made about the core members of the team. Which according to them is Ant, Jaden, Naz, and Joan; I don't disagree.

We know Edwards can be an offensive engine, and one of the best in the league. Pretty much everyone knows he can't be the floor manager, so first what gears and lubricant can be added to this engine and can he build the necessary winning habits to be a consistently above average help defender? In my opinion that's what needs to happen if he wants to be in the top tier and be a championship player, he needs to be at worst the 4th best defender at all times on the team.

Jaden is a great wing defender and there are times he looks like he might be the best in the league. However, to reach his true potential his energy can't be wasted chasing ball handlers all game. I'd say that if he reached that ceiling, it's in a new role as a "defensive ace" operating as this sort of free safety who toggles between low man defender and perimeter defender and can be a playmaker. Funny enough this is Ant's ideal role at his ceiling on defense. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but I don't think there is a significant difference between Holmgren and McDaniels. Chet will certainly be a more impactful defender over their respective careers and I am by no mean refuting that, but Jaden can be a middle class version on that end with much more skill on offense. Jaden has become somewhat polarizing among the fan base, while everyone loves the kid, not everyone agrees that there is a significantly higher level he can get to if he hasn't already gotten their by now. I think it's clear where I stand on that.

Naz is similarly polarizing, and I actually think its a bit unfair to him. He has played most of his time here out of position and it's hung him out to dry a lot on defense. I also wasn't totally surprised to see him shine in the last series --- he was finally healthy again and could tap into his full bag--- it was just surprising that he was able to get healthy in the middle of the post season. I think it's important that Naz is no longer pushed down the totem pole, his floor spacing will be so important for the starting unit moving forward and there's a world where he is the 3 best player on this team at it best. What's more likely and what's best for the team is that he is somewhere between the 4th and 5th best player. Now there's a bit of an awkward fit if Naz is going to start and Jaden is supposed to be a PF. I haven't really figured out how that's supposed to work on defense unless an off-season addition and Ant are gonna be demons on the ball.... Which I don't expect

The most important missing elements from how I've allocated roles here are 'floor manager" and "wing stoppers.". I sense that I'm in the minority that believes adding wing defenders is one of the top priorities for the team, but I do believe it was a core issue in the Spurs series that isn't discussed much because how glaring the other issues were. Adding wing defenders is a top priority if you want to utilize Jaden as I'd like. Shannon, obviously can't be the teams only wing defender cause we're not even sure if he can do that and if Ayo is brought back, I don't want him starting. I think it's critical that better ball contain is added to the roster.

Despite Ant getting all the flak for not being a good point guard, the reality is that Randle was supposed to be the primary initiator. Which worked fine enough for parts of the season but ultimately it's a woefully ineffective answer for a team with title aspirations. Which is what gets us to the real issue with Randle and this team. It's also the issue with Rudy ---- they were too important for the team relative to their ability to meet those needs.

There's a cogent argument to be made that Ju and Rudy were the 1st and 2nd most important players on the team. That's a mother fucking problem, and it's what really caused them to unspool two post seasons in a row. It's also why the push back about their relatively modest contracts doesn't hold water. If Randle was making 33 million and was the 3rd or 4th most important player it wouldn't be that big a deal when he under preforms, the same is true of Rudy.

This, more than anything is the quandary that must be solved. Should one or both of these players be moved? Yeah probably, but more importantly their roles must be reoriented.

I have plenty more to say, but I've probably said enough for now

[thedoper]

I think we need to lean into speed, shooting and athleticism. This team is stuck between two styles of play and it hampers our superstar to play slow even though that may be his preference.

[WildWolf2813]

1. Volume shooting.

2. A PG who can take care of the ball

3. rebounding. Our rebounding for our size is underwhelming.

[Q-is-here]

Going back to Aussie's request from the other thread (the one that has devolved into yet another Ant debate, LOL) for some more "obscure" names to target in free agency or via trade:

1. Andrew Wiggins - This is KiwiMatt's idea and not a bad one. I believe it's Randle for Wiggins pretty much straight up. Wiggins has quietly developed into a very solid 3&D wing after failing as a #1/#2 type option earlier in his career. He could offload some of Jaden's POA defensive responsibilities and allow us to play a switchy, more positionless defense.

2. Collin Gillespie - He's an unrestricted free agent and definitely fits the "connective tissue" type player Finch alluded to in his exit interview. He sort of fits that Tyus Jones/(older) Mike Conley mode of game manager PG, except he's a little bigger than both of them (6'1.5" and 195 lbs. in the combine a few years ago). Could possibly be had for the MLE and either be a token starter that gets subbed in by Ayo early or comes off the bench to sub for Ayo. Either way, a very solid 25-28 MPG player that enables positive things to happen while on the floor but just can't handle a lot of usage.

3. Zach Collins - Another unrestricted free agent whose injuries have basically made him a part-time player. Still, I like his toughness and size. Could be a good vet to share the C role with Beringer if we trade Rudy. Also, he's been gradually developing a 3-point stroke that could continue to improve. I also think he'd come quite cheap.

Phenom mentioned Myles Turner, who is hardly obscure, but an obvious fit if you are talking about trying to create a 5-out offense. In fact, don't be surprised if all the Giannis smoke ends up actually delivering Myles Turner to us and routing Giannis somewhere else with Rudy on the go as well!

[Coolbreeze44]

Not a big surprise that I would love Randle for Wiggins.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I had to look up who Wiggins played for this season. I can see his fit here. I just forgot where he was... and I follow the NBA pretty well, or so I thought.

[Q-is-here]

I had to look up who Wiggins played for this season. I can see his fit here. I just forgot where he was... and I follow the NBA pretty well, or so I thought.

Yeah, since Miami is in the East and have not made much noise of late he's flown under the radar. I still think he's a little wallflower-ish as a player, but I really question what we could get for Randle and Wiggins seems very low maintenance as a player. He's may be a better version of the age-less Jeff Green at this stage in his career - a good-sized wing that is sort of plug 'n play in a playoff wing rotation.

[WildWolf2813]

I had to look up who Wiggins played for this season. I can see his fit here. I just forgot where he was... and I follow the NBA pretty well, or so I thought.

I'd waive Wiggins so fast there wouldn't be time to make the jersey.


Underachieving is one thing. I can't respect someone dogging it the way Wiggins did. He's gonna come back and try now? He's gonna pinky swear A-Rod and Lore this time? He's gonna come back and be the Wiggins that all of a sudden decided rebounds were fun in Golden State? Find someone else whose motivation and effort I can't question.

[Q-is-here]

I had to look up who Wiggins played for this season. I can see his fit here. I just forgot where he was... and I follow the NBA pretty well, or so I thought.

I'd waive Wiggins so fast there wouldn't be time to make the jersey.


Underachieving is one thing. I can't respect someone dogging it the way Wiggins did. He's gonna come back and try now? He's gonna pinky swear A-Rod and Lore this time? He's gonna come back and be the Wiggins that all of a sudden decided rebounds were fun in Golden State? Find someone else whose motivation and effort I can't question.

Ha, I understand the bitter feelings Wildwolf. It reflects just how polarizing Wiggins was while he was here, especially on our predecessor Enjin board - even more than Ant is now. Except Mr. Objectivity Cool was on the "Wiggins will be the next Jordan!" side of that debate. Whoops!

While I'd be wary of Wiggins tendency to disappear and dog it at times, keep in mind that he'd be in an entirely different role than back in the day when he promised Glen Taylor he'd try hard. We also have to be realistic about what we can get for Randle and I certainly don't want some other underachieving malcontent. Wiggins seems to have settled into a pretty reliable and low-maintenance player at this point in his career. Ambivalent at times - yes - but not moody.