It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?

[AussieWolf3]

Ways in which the Wolves might be a better team next season from day 1:

1. If we move Randle this summer I think there is an addition by subtraction benefit regardless of who we get in return, provided we don’t acquire a similar player for our staring lineup. I Randle’s departure would make Jaden and Naz better, while improving the team’s overall offensive flow.

2. If we re-sign Ayo, I think we’re a significantly improved team at the PG position. I like Donte, buy Ayo strikes me as a better, more natural PG. If Ayo does no better than his average, he’ll be giving us 15 point, 4 rebounds, 4 assists and a steal per game as a starter. If he turns out to be close to the player we say in the Denver series, then we can honestly start talking about about the Wolves as a contender with the top two in the West.

3. Given his age, it is likely that Ant will be a better next season.

4. I still see tremendous potential in TSJ, which he’s shown at times against top competition in the playoffs both last year and this year. I think his foot injury completely derailed him, which leads me to believe that a healthy TSJ can be a very good rotation contributor next season.

I don’t want to put too much stock in these four things, but do see this team improving at least a little as a result if them. If Joan or Rocco takes a big step forward, that’s a bonus but I’m not counting on it.

I think the Wolves can combine Ju and our #28 pick to acquire a very good rotation player who fills a team need and plays a style that meshes well with our other rotation guys.

I largely agree with your take aways here. I'm not as confident in Ayo as a point guard but I understand your position.

If he can have a year of health that's closer to his normal I think Ant could have a big bounce back year in 26'

I'm curious what rotation player they could get? You're very right that they could get one with those assets, I'm just trying to envision who that player is and what they're role would be.

Andrew Wiggins has been mentioned which I like because he's an expiring. A name I think of, and I don't know if he's available in a trade, but what about Keegan Murray of the Kings? Young guy who's shown a lot of promise on a team that going no where, also coming off a down year. I suppose his salary is a bit rich for a 6th man, or he would start instead of Naz which might be ok.

Getting Tre Jones would be awesome, but you need to bring back a lot more in salary.

[FNG]

Well, it certainly isn't "all that bad", but it's probably not good enough to knock off a fully healthy OKC or San Antonio. Then again, there may literally be nothing we can do within the realm of NBA rules and cap constraints that could get us up to their level, so there is a good case for patience.

This is literally all I'm saying.
I don't see a valid reason why that starting unit isn't as good or better than this year's. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic about Jaden and Naz, but ultimately if we're gonna keep hearing from the team about how good Jaden could be then they might as well give him a chance to prove it.
That's really all I'm asking for, is the opportunity to see if Jaden is actually up to that level. Can he be the 20th best player? That's a crazy leap but it seems reasonable to me to suggest that is his ceiling (I'm saying its reasonable to say he'll get there, just that it is his ceiling).

I'm just tired of the Gobert/Randle tinted glass ceiling that this team keeps hitting and I really want to know how could these "core" guys can be.

I'm 95% sure that Ant, Jaden, and Naz can't get to Shai, Chet, JDub level but what can they get to?

It's probably a first round or second round playoff team which is still a good team. We can really rip the band-aid off by trading Rudy for cap space/younger vets and then at that point Ant, Jaden, and Naz truly are on their own, so to speak. But if it comes with some hopeful surrounding talent that we think can grow more together it may be worth it....or may be the defense completely collapses, we can't get out of the play-in, and Ant wants out. That's the "patience" risk if we aren't trading for bigger names.

I think I agree that as long as Rudy and Ant are around and healthy, there is a decent floor for this roster...I don't see it as a second round playoff team though. I think we're overlooking how valuable Donte was all season, and how productive Randle was prior to the all star break. I don't see any way to conclude replacing Ju and Donte in the starting lineup with Ayo and Naz (as well as removing Ayo and Naz from what I see as their best role...offensive production off the bench) is an upgrade. If we can't turn Ju plus pieces into a true 1B to put next to Ant, I think we are most likely a play in team. Still good news for a fan base that has not enjoyed playoff basketball most years, but not as good as we can be if TC pulls off a big trade.

[Q-is-here]

This is literally all I'm saying.
I don't see a valid reason why that starting unit isn't as good or better than this year's. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic about Jaden and Naz, but ultimately if we're gonna keep hearing from the team about how good Jaden could be then they might as well give him a chance to prove it.
That's really all I'm asking for, is the opportunity to see if Jaden is actually up to that level. Can he be the 20th best player? That's a crazy leap but it seems reasonable to me to suggest that is his ceiling (I'm saying its reasonable to say he'll get there, just that it is his ceiling).

I'm just tired of the Gobert/Randle tinted glass ceiling that this team keeps hitting and I really want to know how could these "core" guys can be.

I'm 95% sure that Ant, Jaden, and Naz can't get to Shai, Chet, JDub level but what can they get to?

It's probably a first round or second round playoff team which is still a good team. We can really rip the band-aid off by trading Rudy for cap space/younger vets and then at that point Ant, Jaden, and Naz truly are on their own, so to speak. But if it comes with some hopeful surrounding talent that we think can grow more together it may be worth it....or may be the defense completely collapses, we can't get out of the play-in, and Ant wants out. That's the "patience" risk if we aren't trading for bigger names.

I think I agree that as long as Rudy and Ant are around and healthy, there is a decent floor for this roster...I don't see it as a second round playoff team though. I think we're overlooking how valuable Donte was all season, and how productive Randle was prior to the all star break. I don't see any way to conclude replacing Ju and Donte in the starting lineup with Ayo and Naz (as well as removing Ayo and Naz from what I see as their best role...offensive production off the bench) is an upgrade. If we can't turn Ju plus pieces into a true 1B to put next to Ant, I think we are most likely a play in team. Still good news for a fan base that has not enjoyed playoff basketball most years, but not as good as we can be if TC pulls off a big trade.

The DDV loss should not be overlooked. Such an outstanding compliment to Ant and Julius in every single way with the one exception that he's not a natural PG. He was also a very useful asset in trade discussions for a bigger fish (his expiring salary is still somewhat of an asset, but it's always nice when that salary comes with a really productive and healthy player!).

I wouldn't put our ceiling as a play-in team though with the "Lip roster". But 2nd round exit is probably the realistic ceiling and a first round exit as the most predicted outcome.

Assuming that a Randle trade yields us a somewhat neutral, but not a "1B" piece, then Connelly has to really look at whether to rip the band-aid off and making the full Ant 2.0 pivot by trading Rudy. He could still bring in whatever the tier below "a haul" would be.

There are multiple Eastern Conference teams who could care less that Rudy isn't very effective against the Spurs or OKC deep in the playoffs. They see how damn good he is against 85% of the other NBA teams and would absolutely give up valuable assets for him.

[Lipoli390]

This is literally all I'm saying.
I don't see a valid reason why that starting unit isn't as good or better than this year's. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic about Jaden and Naz, but ultimately if we're gonna keep hearing from the team about how good Jaden could be then they might as well give him a chance to prove it.
That's really all I'm asking for, is the opportunity to see if Jaden is actually up to that level. Can he be the 20th best player? That's a crazy leap but it seems reasonable to me to suggest that is his ceiling (I'm saying its reasonable to say he'll get there, just that it is his ceiling).

I'm just tired of the Gobert/Randle tinted glass ceiling that this team keeps hitting and I really want to know how could these "core" guys can be.

I'm 95% sure that Ant, Jaden, and Naz can't get to Shai, Chet, JDub level but what can they get to?

It's probably a first round or second round playoff team which is still a good team. We can really rip the band-aid off by trading Rudy for cap space/younger vets and then at that point Ant, Jaden, and Naz truly are on their own, so to speak. But if it comes with some hopeful surrounding talent that we think can grow more together it may be worth it....or may be the defense completely collapses, we can't get out of the play-in, and Ant wants out. That's the "patience" risk if we aren't trading for bigger names.

I think I agree that as long as Rudy and Ant are around and healthy, there is a decent floor for this roster...I don't see it as a second round playoff team though. I think we're overlooking how valuable Donte was all season, and how productive Randle was prior to the all star break. I don't see any way to conclude replacing Ju and Donte in the starting lineup with Ayo and Naz (as well as removing Ayo and Naz from what I see as their best role...offensive production off the bench) is an upgrade. If we can't turn Ju plus pieces into a true 1B to put next to Ant, I think we are most likely a play in team. Still good news for a fan base that has not enjoyed playoff basketball most years, but not as good as we can be if TC pulls off a big trade.

I don’t agree that the best role for Ayo or Naz is coming off the bench for offensive production. We don’t know what they can do as starters until we see them in that role for extended periods. Ayo looked terrific as a starter against the Nuggets in the first around - better than he’s been coming off the bench. That’s a limited sample but it cuts against the notion that Ayo is better coming off the bench. I’ll add that Ayo is a two-way player, not just a bench scorer. I think he’s better defensively than Donte and would be an upgrade over Donte as our starting PG for that reason alone. Naz has had several stints starting and acquitted himself well. Unlike Randle, Naz integrates well with his teammates on the floor and keeps the ball moving. Arguably, that means he’ll have more of a positive impact as a starter because he’ll be playing with more talented teammates.

I agree we’ll miss the production of both Randle and Donte. But we should look at the situation more broadly through the prism of McHale’s “five players who play best together” lens.

Through that lens, moving Randle would, I believe, have an addition by subtraction impact, offsetting much if not all the lost individual production he’s provided. I think our starting lineup defense improves moving from Randle to Naz who is a better defender, especially in space. Regarding the points Randle provides in our starting lineup, I see that production easily filled by Naz and by Jaden whose offensive production will likely increase without the sticky-fingered Randle in the lineup. As I mentioned previously, I think Ayo would be a step up over Donte as a PG because I see him as a better defender and more of a PG offensively than Donte.

All that leads to a discussion about our bench with Donte out and Naz sliding into the starting lineup. That will be a problem because it means losing a lot from our bench. I have confidence in TSJ to be the guy we thought he’d be last season before his foot injury, which clearly derailed his season. But I acknowledge that’s not nearly enough. And that’s where TC’s offseson moves will be critical. And it’s also why, among other things, using Randle and other valuable assets to acquire one aging former star would be highly problematic. Randle, Clark and our #28 pick will be plenty to acquire a couple valuable rotation bench players. We can get a lot more bang for the buck moving those assets to get high quality bench players than taking a swing at a recently injured aging former star. Meanwhile, if a starting lineup of Ant, Jaden, Ayo, Naz and Rudy isn’t good enough, with the right cast of supporting rotation bench players, to compete for a championship, then it’s time to blow this ship up. This is a moment when I’d like to have all those draft assets we gave up for Rudy and Dilly because we could potentially use them to acquire another elite player in his prime to combine with Ant, Jaden and Naz. Unfortunately, we’re in a position where the best we could do is swap valuable contributing players for an aging former star in his mid 30s, which NBA history has taught us is not a prescription for success.

It’s easy to be bold and take big swings. It’s harder to be smart and strategic but that’s how championship contenders are built. OKC is such a great example - trading Harden for SGA, drafting Williams, trading for Caruso, signing Hartenstein as a FA, drafting Cason Wallace, and drafting McCain (instead of Dillingham). And credit the Knicks for shrewd transactions to build their current roster, which doesn’t have a superstar. Interestingly, Rosas has been a key member of the Knicks front office that built their current team. Note that Rosas is the guy who built the core of the Wolves team (Ant, Jaden, Naz) that had two consecutive trips to the Conference Finals after winning 46 games with a 19 year old Ant the year before TC arrived. TC has made some nice moves and I want him to stay. But I expect a lot more from him than we’ve seen so far. This summer will be, for me, the moment that tells us whether he’s worth the money we’re paying him.

[FNG]

It's probably a first round or second round playoff team which is still a good team. We can really rip the band-aid off by trading Rudy for cap space/younger vets and then at that point Ant, Jaden, and Naz truly are on their own, so to speak. But if it comes with some hopeful surrounding talent that we think can grow more together it may be worth it....or may be the defense completely collapses, we can't get out of the play-in, and Ant wants out. That's the "patience" risk if we aren't trading for bigger names.

I think I agree that as long as Rudy and Ant are around and healthy, there is a decent floor for this roster...I don't see it as a second round playoff team though. I think we're overlooking how valuable Donte was all season, and how productive Randle was prior to the all star break. I don't see any way to conclude replacing Ju and Donte in the starting lineup with Ayo and Naz (as well as removing Ayo and Naz from what I see as their best role...offensive production off the bench) is an upgrade. If we can't turn Ju plus pieces into a true 1B to put next to Ant, I think we are most likely a play in team. Still good news for a fan base that has not enjoyed playoff basketball most years, but not as good as we can be if TC pulls off a big trade.

The DDV loss should not be overlooked. Such an outstanding compliment to Ant and Julius in every single way with the one exception that he's not a natural PG. He was also a very useful asset in trade discussions for a bigger fish (his expiring salary is still somewhat of an asset, but it's always nice when that salary comes with a really productive and healthy player!).

I wouldn't put our ceiling as a play-in team though with the "Lip roster". But 2nd round exit is probably the realistic ceiling and a first round exit as the most predicted outcome.

Assuming that a Randle trade yields us a somewhat neutral, but not a "1B" piece, then Connelly has to really look at whether to rip the band-aid off and making the full Ant 2.0 pivot by trading Rudy. He could still bring in whatever the tier below "a haul" would be.

There are multiple Eastern Conference teams who could care less that Rudy isn't very effective against the Spurs or OKC deep in the playoffs. They see how damn good he is against 85% of the other NBA teams and would absolutely give up valuable assets for him.

The DDV loss will be talked about a lot next season...I think he was far and away our most improved player at both ends of the court, and led by example too with his 100% hustle. Ant might have been our most improved offensive player with the leap in his midrange game, but most think his defense regressed...even far before the knee setbacks. Donte though seemed improved at both ends of the court...he did things on defense I didn't think possible from him. He will really be missed.

[Lipoli390]

I think I agree that as long as Rudy and Ant are around and healthy, there is a decent floor for this roster...I don't see it as a second round playoff team though. I think we're overlooking how valuable Donte was all season, and how productive Randle was prior to the all star break. I don't see any way to conclude replacing Ju and Donte in the starting lineup with Ayo and Naz (as well as removing Ayo and Naz from what I see as their best role...offensive production off the bench) is an upgrade. If we can't turn Ju plus pieces into a true 1B to put next to Ant, I think we are most likely a play in team. Still good news for a fan base that has not enjoyed playoff basketball most years, but not as good as we can be if TC pulls off a big trade.

The DDV loss should not be overlooked. Such an outstanding compliment to Ant and Julius in every single way with the one exception that he's not a natural PG. He was also a very useful asset in trade discussions for a bigger fish (his expiring salary is still somewhat of an asset, but it's always nice when that salary comes with a really productive and healthy player!).

I wouldn't put our ceiling as a play-in team though with the "Lip roster". But 2nd round exit is probably the realistic ceiling and a first round exit as the most predicted outcome.

Assuming that a Randle trade yields us a somewhat neutral, but not a "1B" piece, then Connelly has to really look at whether to rip the band-aid off and making the full Ant 2.0 pivot by trading Rudy. He could still bring in whatever the tier below "a haul" would be.

There are multiple Eastern Conference teams who could care less that Rudy isn't very effective against the Spurs or OKC deep in the playoffs. They see how damn good he is against 85% of the other NBA teams and would absolutely give up valuable assets for him.

The DDV loss will be talked about a lot next season...I think he was far and away our most improved player at both ends of the court, and led by example too with his 100% hustle. Ant might have been our most improved offensive player with the leap in his midrange game, but most think his defense regressed...even far before the knee setbacks. Donte though seemed improved at both ends of the court...he did things on defense I didn't think possible from him. He will really be missed.

I’d be reluctant to trade Rudy but moving him for the right return might be necessary to get over the hump. I’m fine with bold moves, but not wild swings for mercurial 34 year olds coming off ACL injuries. I think we could get high quality rotation players for Rudy and Randle, especially throwing in our #28 pick and Clark.

[FNG]

Lip, I wish I felt as positive about Ayo's defense vis a vis Donte, but the numbers just don't comfort me. We have a thread here called the Ayo Mystery that tries to understand why he shows up so poorly in certain stats. In the playoffs this season for instance: Our opponents scored an astonishing 16.2 more points per 100 possessions when Ayo was on the court compared to off, and this has been an issue with him throughout his career...could be why the Bulls were willing to trade him for two unproven (or proven to not be good?) players. In contrast, opponents scored 6.6 fewer points per 100 this season when Donte was on the court, second only to Rudy. It's puzzling, because his effort on the court looks consistently more like Donte than like Ju or Ant. I still like him as a player that can provide instant offense off the bench, but I would have some serious concerns about our defense next season if we are relying on a starting backcourt of Ayo and Ant. Knowing TC though and the trade pieces he has at his disposal, I expect him to take a big swing that will allow Finchy to use Ayo off the bench.

[rapsuperstar31]

The DDV loss should not be overlooked. Such an outstanding compliment to Ant and Julius in every single way with the one exception that he's not a natural PG. He was also a very useful asset in trade discussions for a bigger fish (his expiring salary is still somewhat of an asset, but it's always nice when that salary comes with a really productive and healthy player!).

I wouldn't put our ceiling as a play-in team though with the "Lip roster". But 2nd round exit is probably the realistic ceiling and a first round exit as the most predicted outcome.

Assuming that a Randle trade yields us a somewhat neutral, but not a "1B" piece, then Connelly has to really look at whether to rip the band-aid off and making the full Ant 2.0 pivot by trading Rudy. He could still bring in whatever the tier below "a haul" would be.

There are multiple Eastern Conference teams who could care less that Rudy isn't very effective against the Spurs or OKC deep in the playoffs. They see how damn good he is against 85% of the other NBA teams and would absolutely give up valuable assets for him.

The DDV loss will be talked about a lot next season...I think he was far and away our most improved player at both ends of the court, and led by example too with his 100% hustle. Ant might have been our most improved offensive player with the leap in his midrange game, but most think his defense regressed...even far before the knee setbacks. Donte though seemed improved at both ends of the court...he did things on defense I didn't think possible from him. He will really be missed.

I’d be reluctant to trade Rudy but moving him for the right return might be necessary to get over the hump. I’m fine with bold moves, but not wild swings for mercurial 34 year olds coming off ACL injuries. I think we could get high quality rotation players for Rudy and Randle, especially throwing in our #28 pick and Clark.

Could always try to help Cleveland get Giannis, by taking Mobley off their hands. Rudy to Charlotte a bunch of first round picks and young guys to Milwaukee from all teams involved. Maybe make it a 4 team trade and toss in Randle to Detroit and have Detroit send assets to Milwaukee as well.

[Lipoli390]

The DDV loss will be talked about a lot next season...I think he was far and away our most improved player at both ends of the court, and led by example too with his 100% hustle. Ant might have been our most improved offensive player with the leap in his midrange game, but most think his defense regressed...even far before the knee setbacks. Donte though seemed improved at both ends of the court...he did things on defense I didn't think possible from him. He will really be missed.

I’d be reluctant to trade Rudy but moving him for the right return might be necessary to get over the hump. I’m fine with bold moves, but not wild swings for mercurial 34 year olds coming off ACL injuries. I think we could get high quality rotation players for Rudy and Randle, especially throwing in our #28 pick and Clark.

Could always try to help Cleveland get Giannis, by taking Mobley off their hands. Rudy to Charlotte a bunch of first round picks and young guys to Milwaukee from all teams involved. Maybe make it a 4 team trade and toss in Randle to Detroit and have Detroit send assets to Milwaukee as well.

Rap - Those are the types of shrewd opportunistic moves that are conceivable and that I’d like to see from TC this offseason. I think the Cavs are a team that will feel desperate to make a major move and therein lies the opportunity. Orlando and Charlotte are a couple other teams that might feel it’s time for a major move to acquire certain types of high-impact vets like Rudy and Randle. It appears that Portland’s owner really wants to make a splash on a win-now deal.