Wolves traded Kat

[WildWolf2813]

The switch has flipped again! KAT is coming out on top! Who saw that coming?

I sort of saw it coming. The KAT trade was necessary for salary purposes because of the Rudy deal. It was probably the best TC could do under the circumstances. But I’ve never thought we were better off with Randle and Donte than with KAT. I remember Rudy’s first season here. You might recall that KAT was out almost the entire season and we ended up dropping from 7th place with 46 wins to 8th place with 42 wins, getting ousted in the 1st round in five games. The next season, with KAT returning, we finished 3rd with 56 wins and made the Western Conference Finals. The next season with Randle and Donte we finished 6th with 49 wins games. We slipped even further this season with another 6th place finish, 49 wins and a second-round exit.

KAT is an elite player; Randle and Donte are not. KAT is a better defender than Randle and much better rebounder. I like Donte, but it’s not that hard to acquire a Donte-type player in free agency or a via relatively minor trade. There are lots of Dontes but very few KATs in the League. Yes, KAT has flaws, which we all saw when he was here - flaws that I think were overly hyped by a frustrated fan base. We always see and get aggregated more by the flaws in those close to us. It’s part of the “grass is greener” syndrome. In truth, lots of all-star caliber players have frustrating flaws. It’s up to the organization to put players on the floor and a coach on the bench who can effectively cover for and manage those flaws and get the best out of the team as a whole.

The whole Randle thing ties significantly back to Finch. He has a man-crush on Randle and I think it’s distorting the organization’s perspective and player personnel decisions. I hope reality has sunk in with TC enough that he finally moves on from Randle. Unfortunately, Donte has been taken away from us by an injury. That’s a significant loss, but a manageable one. The key is moving on from Randle, getting the best possible value in return for him, and shaping our roster around Ant, Jaden, Naz and Ayo. Meanwhile, it’s great to see KAT have success with the Knicks. He’s a terrific person who has always taken the game seriously and given his all every second he’s on the court.

KAT has taken a step forward in his overall playoff performances, especially on defense. That was the big flaw here, him fouling too much, then sitting on the bench, and then while in foul trouble not playing good defense because of it. The few games I watched this postseason he has seemingly taken a big step forward from avg below avg defender to very good even great one.

Are the coaches in NY doing a better job, or has he just gotten better over time? Maybe both.

Certainly the cap and aprons make it basically impossible to keep 2 supermax players on a roster too and be a contender, so KAT due to his salary needed to go. Unless you can hit homeruns on draft picks, sign great deals in FA, trades, etc...

I think we could have kept KAT, but then Naz was gone being we couldn't stay in the 2nd apron and not winning championships. So then our depth was crud.

and I think so many bought into the idea that we had another Towns and his name was Naz Reid at a much cheaper price. Even now I think people are still holding out that Naz starts and everything comes together and he becomes an all-star here the way KAT was. He's entering his prime, but if after 7 NBA seasons that ceiling hasn't shown itself, it's usually not going to, and say it magically did, then the Randle years are gonna feel like a waste of time.

[Wolvesfan21]

I sort of saw it coming. The KAT trade was necessary for salary purposes because of the Rudy deal. It was probably the best TC could do under the circumstances. But I’ve never thought we were better off with Randle and Donte than with KAT. I remember Rudy’s first season here. You might recall that KAT was out almost the entire season and we ended up dropping from 7th place with 46 wins to 8th place with 42 wins, getting ousted in the 1st round in five games. The next season, with KAT returning, we finished 3rd with 56 wins and made the Western Conference Finals. The next season with Randle and Donte we finished 6th with 49 wins games. We slipped even further this season with another 6th place finish, 49 wins and a second-round exit.

KAT is an elite player; Randle and Donte are not. KAT is a better defender than Randle and much better rebounder. I like Donte, but it’s not that hard to acquire a Donte-type player in free agency or a via relatively minor trade. There are lots of Dontes but very few KATs in the League. Yes, KAT has flaws, which we all saw when he was here - flaws that I think were overly hyped by a frustrated fan base. We always see and get aggregated more by the flaws in those close to us. It’s part of the “grass is greener” syndrome. In truth, lots of all-star caliber players have frustrating flaws. It’s up to the organization to put players on the floor and a coach on the bench who can effectively cover for and manage those flaws and get the best out of the team as a whole.

The whole Randle thing ties significantly back to Finch. He has a man-crush on Randle and I think it’s distorting the organization’s perspective and player personnel decisions. I hope reality has sunk in with TC enough that he finally moves on from Randle. Unfortunately, Donte has been taken away from us by an injury. That’s a significant loss, but a manageable one. The key is moving on from Randle, getting the best possible value in return for him, and shaping our roster around Ant, Jaden, Naz and Ayo. Meanwhile, it’s great to see KAT have success with the Knicks. He’s a terrific person who has always taken the game seriously and given his all every second he’s on the court.

KAT has taken a step forward in his overall playoff performances, especially on defense. That was the big flaw here, him fouling too much, then sitting on the bench, and then while in foul trouble not playing good defense because of it. The few games I watched this postseason he has seemingly taken a big step forward from avg below avg defender to very good even great one.

Are the coaches in NY doing a better job, or has he just gotten better over time? Maybe both.

Certainly the cap and aprons make it basically impossible to keep 2 supermax players on a roster too and be a contender, so KAT due to his salary needed to go. Unless you can hit homeruns on draft picks, sign great deals in FA, trades, etc...

I think we could have kept KAT, but then Naz was gone being we couldn't stay in the 2nd apron and not winning championships. So then our depth was crud.

and I think so many bought into the idea that we had another Towns and his name was Naz Reid at a much cheaper price. Even now I think people are still holding out that Naz starts and everything comes together and he becomes an all-star here the way KAT was. He's entering his prime, but if after 7 NBA seasons that ceiling hasn't shown itself, it's usually not going to, and say it magically did, then the Randle years are gonna feel like a waste of time.

People are still putting a lot of hope into Naz and Jaden too. Neither of which has been consistent enough to make us a real championship team (both been good, very good, not great). Hope it happens, I doubt either becomes that great though. You're right in that 7 years for Naz, 6 for Jaden? How much growth can either have now? Add more to their plate and maybe they don't succeed. Playing next to Ant on offense too, makes their lives pretty pretty easy. Open looks, open drives, IDK.

Thats why I'm scared the Spurs with their super youth and likely big improvements over the next few years (if healthy), we just got no chance.

[rapsuperstar31]

KAT has taken a step forward in his overall playoff performances, especially on defense. That was the big flaw here, him fouling too much, then sitting on the bench, and then while in foul trouble not playing good defense because of it. The few games I watched this postseason he has seemingly taken a big step forward from avg below avg defender to very good even great one.

Are the coaches in NY doing a better job, or has he just gotten better over time? Maybe both.

Certainly the cap and aprons make it basically impossible to keep 2 supermax players on a roster too and be a contender, so KAT due to his salary needed to go. Unless you can hit homeruns on draft picks, sign great deals in FA, trades, etc...

I think we could have kept KAT, but then Naz was gone being we couldn't stay in the 2nd apron and not winning championships. So then our depth was crud.

and I think so many bought into the idea that we had another Towns and his name was Naz Reid at a much cheaper price. Even now I think people are still holding out that Naz starts and everything comes together and he becomes an all-star here the way KAT was. He's entering his prime, but if after 7 NBA seasons that ceiling hasn't shown itself, it's usually not going to, and say it magically did, then the Randle years are gonna feel like a waste of time.

People are still putting a lot of hope into Naz and Jaden too. Neither of which has been consistent enough to make us a real championship team (both been good, very good, not great). Hope it happens, I doubt either becomes that great though. You're right in that 7 years for Naz, 6 for Jaden? How much growth can either have now? Add more to their plate and maybe they don't succeed. Playing next to Ant on offense too, makes their lives pretty pretty easy. Open looks, open drives, IDK.

Thats why I'm scared the Spurs with their super youth and likely big improvements over the next few years (if healthy), we just got no chance.

I don't think we're going to win 3+ championships, but you keep building and tweaking around the roster and getting bites at that apple. Every season in the playoffs there have been injuries that effect who wins the championship. Golden State probably only wins one or two championships without injury luck. The Knicks kept building their team out, and now when their players are in that perfect veteran window of 28-31 year old range it's time for their biggest bite at the apple in the finals.

[Q-is-here]

and I think so many bought into the idea that we had another Towns and his name was Naz Reid at a much cheaper price. Even now I think people are still holding out that Naz starts and everything comes together and he becomes an all-star here the way KAT was. He's entering his prime, but if after 7 NBA seasons that ceiling hasn't shown itself, it's usually not going to, and say it magically did, then the Randle years are gonna feel like a waste of time.

People are still putting a lot of hope into Naz and Jaden too. Neither of which has been consistent enough to make us a real championship team (both been good, very good, not great). Hope it happens, I doubt either becomes that great though. You're right in that 7 years for Naz, 6 for Jaden? How much growth can either have now? Add more to their plate and maybe they don't succeed. Playing next to Ant on offense too, makes their lives pretty pretty easy. Open looks, open drives, IDK.

Thats why I'm scared the Spurs with their super youth and likely big improvements over the next few years (if healthy), we just got no chance.

I don't think we're going to win 3+ championships, but you keep building and tweaking around the roster and getting bites at that apple. Every season in the playoffs there have been injuries that effect who wins the championship. Golden State probably only wins one or two championships without injury luck. The Knicks kept building their team out, and now when their players are in that perfect veteran window of 28-31 year old range it's time for their biggest bite at the apple in the finals.

The Knicks made basically one change since last season's flameout against the Pacers: A new head coach. That's pretty much it. The top 8 in their playoff rotation is exactly the same as last year. Heck, they had more continuity than the Wolves did from a player personnel perspective. Yet they have had the most dominant stretch over 12 games in NBA history in terms of points differential. That's nuts. They were the 3rd seed just a few weeks ago!

I'm not suggesting we should replace Finch, but it does sort of speak to what you are getting at here. Keep tweaking, keep honing, etc. and then hope the wind is at your back in the playoffs.

Back to the Knicks....How much credit does Mike Brown deserve and could it be one of the greatest coaching performances (so far) in recent memory? Again, he's taken the EXACT same top 8 guys from last season, all fully formed players for the last few years and not really improving dramatically as individuals anymore, and turned them into a juggernaut. Did anyone see this coming?

[AbeVigodaLive]

People are still putting a lot of hope into Naz and Jaden too. Neither of which has been consistent enough to make us a real championship team (both been good, very good, not great). Hope it happens, I doubt either becomes that great though. You're right in that 7 years for Naz, 6 for Jaden? How much growth can either have now? Add more to their plate and maybe they don't succeed. Playing next to Ant on offense too, makes their lives pretty pretty easy. Open looks, open drives, IDK.

Thats why I'm scared the Spurs with their super youth and likely big improvements over the next few years (if healthy), we just got no chance.

I don't think we're going to win 3+ championships, but you keep building and tweaking around the roster and getting bites at that apple. Every season in the playoffs there have been injuries that effect who wins the championship. Golden State probably only wins one or two championships without injury luck. The Knicks kept building their team out, and now when their players are in that perfect veteran window of 28-31 year old range it's time for their biggest bite at the apple in the finals.

The Knicks made basically one change since last season's flameout against the Pacers: A new head coach. That's pretty much it. The top 8 in their playoff rotation is exactly the same as last year. Heck, they had more continuity than the Wolves did from a player personnel perspective. Yet they have had the most dominant stretch over 12 games in NBA history in terms of points differential. That's nuts. They were the 3rd seed just a few weeks ago!

I'm not suggesting we should replace Finch, but it does sort of speak to what you are getting at here. Keep tweaking, keep honing, etc. and then hope the wind is at your back in the playoffs.

Back to the Knicks....How much credit does Mike Brown deserve and could it be one of the greatest coaching performances (so far) in recent memory? Again, he's taken the EXACT same top 8 guys from last season, all fully formed players for the last few years and not really improving dramatically as individuals anymore, and turned them into a juggernaut. Did anyone see this coming?

The Knicks roster? Sure. With Mike Brown getting a bunch of the credit? No.

I don't think anybody thought he was a coaching genius in Cleveland, LA or Sacramento.

He was solid. Right guy at the right time (in his career) and the team's. I dig what he's done though...

[Q-is-here]

I don't think we're going to win 3+ championships, but you keep building and tweaking around the roster and getting bites at that apple. Every season in the playoffs there have been injuries that effect who wins the championship. Golden State probably only wins one or two championships without injury luck. The Knicks kept building their team out, and now when their players are in that perfect veteran window of 28-31 year old range it's time for their biggest bite at the apple in the finals.

The Knicks made basically one change since last season's flameout against the Pacers: A new head coach. That's pretty much it. The top 8 in their playoff rotation is exactly the same as last year. Heck, they had more continuity than the Wolves did from a player personnel perspective. Yet they have had the most dominant stretch over 12 games in NBA history in terms of points differential. That's nuts. They were the 3rd seed just a few weeks ago!

I'm not suggesting we should replace Finch, but it does sort of speak to what you are getting at here. Keep tweaking, keep honing, etc. and then hope the wind is at your back in the playoffs.

Back to the Knicks....How much credit does Mike Brown deserve and could it be one of the greatest coaching performances (so far) in recent memory? Again, he's taken the EXACT same top 8 guys from last season, all fully formed players for the last few years and not really improving dramatically as individuals anymore, and turned them into a juggernaut. Did anyone see this coming?

The Knicks roster? Sure. With Mike Brown getting a bunch of the credit? No.

I don't think anybody thought he was a coaching genius in Cleveland, LA or Sacramento.

He was solid. Right guy at the right time (in his career) and the team's. I dig what he's done though...

Obviously it's a player's league, but the whole point is these exact same players couldn't beat the Pacers last year in the ECFs and this year have steamrolled through the East with ease and won Game 1 @ SAS. The only difference is the coaching staff.

[GhostOfZelko]

The only difference is the coaching staff.

Some differences in the opponents though

[Lipoli390]

The Knicks made basically one change since last season's flameout against the Pacers: A new head coach. That's pretty much it. The top 8 in their playoff rotation is exactly the same as last year. Heck, they had more continuity than the Wolves did from a player personnel perspective. Yet they have had the most dominant stretch over 12 games in NBA history in terms of points differential. That's nuts. They were the 3rd seed just a few weeks ago!

I'm not suggesting we should replace Finch, but it does sort of speak to what you are getting at here. Keep tweaking, keep honing, etc. and then hope the wind is at your back in the playoffs.

Back to the Knicks....How much credit does Mike Brown deserve and could it be one of the greatest coaching performances (so far) in recent memory? Again, he's taken the EXACT same top 8 guys from last season, all fully formed players for the last few years and not really improving dramatically as individuals anymore, and turned them into a juggernaut. Did anyone see this coming?

The Knicks roster? Sure. With Mike Brown getting a bunch of the credit? No.

I don't think anybody thought he was a coaching genius in Cleveland, LA or Sacramento.

He was solid. Right guy at the right time (in his career) and the team's. I dig what he's done though...

Obviously it's a player's league, but the whole point is these exact same players couldn't beat the Pacers last year in the ECFs and this year have steamrolled through the East with ease and won Game 1 @ SAS. The only difference is the coaching staff.

That’s a really hard question to answer. On the surface, it would seem that the coaching change was a major factor, perhaps the only meaningful factor. But their success this season could simply be the result of more time playing together.

[Monster]

The Knicks roster? Sure. With Mike Brown getting a bunch of the credit? No.

I don't think anybody thought he was a coaching genius in Cleveland, LA or Sacramento.

He was solid. Right guy at the right time (in his career) and the team's. I dig what he's done though...

Obviously it's a player's league, but the whole point is these exact same players couldn't beat the Pacers last year in the ECFs and this year have steamrolled through the East with ease and won Game 1 @ SAS. The only difference is the coaching staff.

That’s a really hard question to answer. On the surface, it would seem that the coaching change was a major factor, perhaps the only meaningful factor. But their success this season could simply be the result of more time playing together.

Let's remember that roster was brand new going into that season. Maybe Thibs would have figured it out too. I'm cool with Brown getting credit but the Knicks roster had big-time turnover including the trade that brought Towns not long before the regular season started. The pacers were a damn good team too.

Also the Knicks haven't won a championship yet. Let's see how the next few games play out.

Edit:

One of the issues with last year's K picks team in the playoffs was their lack of depth or they didn't play more guys. That's been a criticism of Thibs but I will say some of the guys be went to at times didn't inspire confidence. The Knicks this year went at least 8 deep instead of just 7 and they had Alvarado available to play if they wanted someone. The guards they had other than Shamet weren't doing much. I'd say that this Knicks team was at least 1 player deeper and that's not a small thing.

[Wolvesfan21]

The Knicks roster? Sure. With Mike Brown getting a bunch of the credit? No.

I don't think anybody thought he was a coaching genius in Cleveland, LA or Sacramento.

He was solid. Right guy at the right time (in his career) and the team's. I dig what he's done though...

Obviously it's a player's league, but the whole point is these exact same players couldn't beat the Pacers last year in the ECFs and this year have steamrolled through the East with ease and won Game 1 @ SAS. The only difference is the coaching staff.

That’s a really hard question to answer. On the surface, it would seem that the coaching change was a major factor, perhaps the only meaningful factor. But their success this season could simply be the result of more time playing together.

Would they be in the same or better spot with Thibs? Thats a really tough ask considering how historically great they have played for 12 games now. Not even Thibs would probably argue that.