Which deal(s) do you like best

[Q-is-here]

I don't feel like starting another thread so I was just thinking let's say they move Randle for a younger guard that is a 3 point shooter and they need more at the PF position. It would open up some minutes for Beringer a starting spot for Reid and depending on the perimeter guys maybe more minutes for McDaniels to play there depending on situations and matchups. What else?

I would bring back Anderson if we can get him on a vet min. I know he doesn't help spacing but I think he can still play and gives some playmaking plus he still is solid on the defensive end as a PF. It seems like he would be a good guy to have on the floor with Beringer.

Is there another younger player the Wolves can bring in that could grow into something? What about Jeremy Sochan on a cheap deal? He is a theoretical Aaron Gordon type...but not as good. Lol He would likely be cheap and turned 23 last month. Obviously the. Biggest issue with him is lake of 3 point shooting but it seems like he is a really good defender and does some other shit. I was surprised at his rebounding numbers per 36 when I looked them up. Any other guys to take a flyer on? Josh Minott? Lol

Your first paragraph is one of the main reasons for trading Randle - in order to open up a starting spot for Naz Reid, get Jaden more opportunities with the ball in his hands, and to get Beringer a regular rotation spot off the bench. It's something a lot of us were talking about last offseason, but alas, Connelly and Finch stuck with Randle.

You mention outside names for frontcourt positions, but it's our back court that is in real need of shoring up assuming we don't trade Rudy and also have Naz, Jaden, Joan, and Rocco. There you go - that's a pretty solid front court.

I think we mentioned it on the Point Guard thread, but to me Memphis is the team we should be looking to make a deal with for guard depth. They have a glut of quality guards not named Ja Morant: Ty Jerome, Cam Spencer, Scottie Pippen Jr., and Cedric Coward.

Wait are you in on even Rocco seeing some minutes this year?

Good thoughts.

I'm ready to move on from Randle (I'm not desperately wanting him off the roster) but I think sometimes it's downplayed that he is a good player (despite his flaws) and makes quite a bit of positive impact especially in the regular season. I don't think we can just trade him and then plan to fill in with guys already here. If Naz or Gobert miss any reasonable amount of time I want a other reasonably legit option other than just playing Jaden there as a full time PF...depending on what else they add on the perimeter. I'll say that if Kyle Anderson can still be anywhere near as effective for the team as he was his last season with the Wolves that's a solid backup plan during the regular season especially since my guess is he would come back for the vet min. I will say that Jaden has some nice chemistry with Gobert as a passer so playing next to him might be interesting. I like Jaden playing as SF where his size is an advantage for the team. Just looked up Kyle Anderson and he doesn't turn 33 till September. He isn't super old and never replied on being a big athlete anyways.

I think part of what I was getting at is that if we move Randle is there some value players we can add to the "Bigs" on the roster. Connelly has found some perimeter guys that have turned out to be good or at least good vet min contracts. Garza was a solid addition to the roster when they brought him on. He is at least an NBA player. Remember when it felt like this franchise couldn't find a guy like that? I think it's more likely to find those guys now than 10 or more years but yeah. Anyways I would like to see Connelly and the Wolves find someone worthwhile at the end of the roster. I'd like a tough rangy defender that can play PF or another guy that can stretch the floor is what I would be looking for.

Randle is a good player, but his fit on the Wolves was somewhat dubious from the start. I mean, we have $70M-$80M per year tied up in two guys (Julius and Naz) that play the exact same position. It makes no sense.

Presumably by trading him we get something in return and that something will help offset some of his production along with asking Naz, Jaden, and Joan to step up and do more.

As for Rocco, I think he has the potential to take on the Joan role of last season, which is basically as a 3rd string Center that doesn't play a whole lot.

[Monster]

Your first paragraph is one of the main reasons for trading Randle - in order to open up a starting spot for Naz Reid, get Jaden more opportunities with the ball in his hands, and to get Beringer a regular rotation spot off the bench. It's something a lot of us were talking about last offseason, but alas, Connelly and Finch stuck with Randle.

You mention outside names for frontcourt positions, but it's our back court that is in real need of shoring up assuming we don't trade Rudy and also have Naz, Jaden, Joan, and Rocco. There you go - that's a pretty solid front court.

I think we mentioned it on the Point Guard thread, but to me Memphis is the team we should be looking to make a deal with for guard depth. They have a glut of quality guards not named Ja Morant: Ty Jerome, Cam Spencer, Scottie Pippen Jr., and Cedric Coward.

Wait are you in on even Rocco seeing some minutes this year?

Good thoughts.

I'm ready to move on from Randle (I'm not desperately wanting him off the roster) but I think sometimes it's downplayed that he is a good player (despite his flaws) and makes quite a bit of positive impact especially in the regular season. I don't think we can just trade him and then plan to fill in with guys already here. If Naz or Gobert miss any reasonable amount of time I want a other reasonably legit option other than just playing Jaden there as a full time PF...depending on what else they add on the perimeter. I'll say that if Kyle Anderson can still be anywhere near as effective for the team as he was his last season with the Wolves that's a solid backup plan during the regular season especially since my guess is he would come back for the vet min. I will say that Jaden has some nice chemistry with Gobert as a passer so playing next to him might be interesting. I like Jaden playing as SF where his size is an advantage for the team. Just looked up Kyle Anderson and he doesn't turn 33 till September. He isn't super old and never replied on being a big athlete anyways.

I think part of what I was getting at is that if we move Randle is there some value players we can add to the "Bigs" on the roster. Connelly has found some perimeter guys that have turned out to be good or at least good vet min contracts. Garza was a solid addition to the roster when they brought him on. He is at least an NBA player. Remember when it felt like this franchise couldn't find a guy like that? I think it's more likely to find those guys now than 10 or more years but yeah. Anyways I would like to see Connelly and the Wolves find someone worthwhile at the end of the roster. I'd like a tough rangy defender that can play PF or another guy that can stretch the floor is what I would be looking for.

Randle is a good player, but his fit on the Wolves was somewhat dubious from the start. I mean, we have $70M-$80M per year tied up in two guys (Julius and Naz) that play the exact same position. It makes no sense.

Presumably by trading him we get something in return and that something will help offset some of his production along with asking Naz, Jaden, and Joan to step up and do more.

As for Rocco, I think he has the potential to take on the Joan role of last season, which is basically as a 3rd string Center that doesn't play a whole lot.

You say that Randle and Naz being on the roster for a combined amount of money for someone that plays one position doesn't make sense and didn't feol the beginning. Let's be real here. Those 2 guys this season cost less combined than Towns and that will be the case next season if Randle is still on the roster and that doesn't even include the fact that it's 2 roster spots instead of one. This is another reason why that Fox contract is gonna be tough starting next year. Just as an example he will cost almost 20 million more than Randle and it's not like he is vastly better if at all depending on what you need on your roster.

I agree that reconfiguring the roster makes sense especially if Rocco is ready for that type of role you suggest. It makes sense to open up minutes for Beringer too. To me while putting together a roster that makes sense the biggest issue for years for the Wolves was not having enough talent. If we move Randle it's gotta bring back something worthwhile in some way shape or form and then like I said they need to add something to that frontcourt in some way shape or form. Some of that adding talent is young players stepping up and growing into roles. That could even be Naz who has been around a long time but still can improve and take on a bigger role. Beringer and TSJ need to make a meaningful step forward. It could also be other guys. For the Knicks Shamet has been a pretty important player for them. He was brought back on the vet min and I don't know how many people thought he would be a key rotation player oma team in the finals. It doesn't shock me but that was somewhat unexpected. Can the Wolves find someone like that? Maybe Bones is brought back on the vet min or a small raise and takes another step forward and becomes a better player. There are lots of paths to improve although as we are all aware none of them are certain. It does seem like Randle moving on has a more than decent chance of happening. One of the positives is that Chet Struggled so much against Wemby it probably helps Randle's case after a tough series against the Spurs. I think there are gonna be teams that will be interested in taking on Randle while moving on from someone else that costs money. There are a number of higher paid players that seem likely to get moved around so Randle being in one of those deals seems reasonable. Sometimes it's good to have a guy making that type of salary to make a deal possible. I'm trying not to get caught up in trying to figure things out but it's a compelling off-season and I think everyone here agrees something needs to and will happen. We all know Connelly is gonna be looking at all the options and isn't afraid to pull the trigger on a deal.

[Lipoli390]

Wait are you in on even Rocco seeing some minutes this year?

Good thoughts.

I'm ready to move on from Randle (I'm not desperately wanting him off the roster) but I think sometimes it's downplayed that he is a good player (despite his flaws) and makes quite a bit of positive impact especially in the regular season. I don't think we can just trade him and then plan to fill in with guys already here. If Naz or Gobert miss any reasonable amount of time I want a other reasonably legit option other than just playing Jaden there as a full time PF...depending on what else they add on the perimeter. I'll say that if Kyle Anderson can still be anywhere near as effective for the team as he was his last season with the Wolves that's a solid backup plan during the regular season especially since my guess is he would come back for the vet min. I will say that Jaden has some nice chemistry with Gobert as a passer so playing next to him might be interesting. I like Jaden playing as SF where his size is an advantage for the team. Just looked up Kyle Anderson and he doesn't turn 33 till September. He isn't super old and never replied on being a big athlete anyways.

I think part of what I was getting at is that if we move Randle is there some value players we can add to the "Bigs" on the roster. Connelly has found some perimeter guys that have turned out to be good or at least good vet min contracts. Garza was a solid addition to the roster when they brought him on. He is at least an NBA player. Remember when it felt like this franchise couldn't find a guy like that? I think it's more likely to find those guys now than 10 or more years but yeah. Anyways I would like to see Connelly and the Wolves find someone worthwhile at the end of the roster. I'd like a tough rangy defender that can play PF or another guy that can stretch the floor is what I would be looking for.

Randle is a good player, but his fit on the Wolves was somewhat dubious from the start. I mean, we have $70M-$80M per year tied up in two guys (Julius and Naz) that play the exact same position. It makes no sense.

Presumably by trading him we get something in return and that something will help offset some of his production along with asking Naz, Jaden, and Joan to step up and do more.

As for Rocco, I think he has the potential to take on the Joan role of last season, which is basically as a 3rd string Center that doesn't play a whole lot.

You say that Randle and Naz being on the roster for a combined amount of money for someone that plays one position doesn't make sense and didn't feol the beginning. Let's be real here. Those 2 guys this season cost less combined than Towns and that will be the case next season if Randle is still on the roster and that doesn't even include the fact that it's 2 roster spots instead of one. This is another reason why that Fox contract is gonna be tough starting next year. Just as an example he will cost almost 20 million more than Randle and it's not like he is vastly better if at all depending on what you need on your roster.

I agree that reconfiguring the roster makes sense especially if Rocco is ready for that type of role you suggest. It makes sense to open up minutes for Beringer too. To me while putting together a roster that makes sense the biggest issue for years for the Wolves was not having enough talent. If we move Randle it's gotta bring back something worthwhile in some way shape or form and then like I said they need to add something to that frontcourt in some way shape or form. Some of that adding talent is young players stepping up and growing into roles. That could even be Naz who has been around a long time but still can improve and take on a bigger role. Beringer and TSJ need to make a meaningful step forward. It could also be other guys. For the Knicks Shamet has been a pretty important player for them. He was brought back on the vet min and I don't know how many people thought he would be a key rotation player oma team in the finals. It doesn't shock me but that was somewhat unexpected. Can the Wolves find someone like that? Maybe Bones is brought back on the vet min or a small raise and takes another step forward and becomes a better player. There are lots of paths to improve although as we are all aware none of them are certain. It does seem like Randle moving on has a more than decent chance of happening. One of the positives is that Chet Struggled so much against Wemby it probably helps Randle's case after a tough series against the Spurs. I think there are gonna be teams that will be interested in taking on Randle while moving on from someone else that costs money. There are a number of higher paid players that seem likely to get moved around so Randle being in one of those deals seems reasonable. Sometimes it's good to have a guy making that type of salary to make a deal possible. I'm trying not to get caught up in trying to figure things out but it's a compelling off-season and I think everyone here agrees something needs to and will happen. We all know Connelly is gonna be looking at all the options and isn't afraid to pull the trigger on a deal.

Monster - I generally agree with you. But I think Q is right that having Randle and Naz on our roster doesn’t make sense - or at least isn’t optimal. I get your point about KAT’s salary compared to the combined salaries Randle and Naz, but KAT is a much better player than Randle. More importantly, unlike Naz and Randle, KAT is a center as much as he is a PF. Therefore, KAT and Naz could play together effectively. Randle/Naz is a terrible combo as they are both strictly PFs. Each of those two has a very reasonable contract, but having them both has never made much sense to me. They are both high-quality players who should be on the court 30-35 minutes per game at a minimum to get the most out of them. Yet, there are only 48 minutes at each position, which means one or the other ends up playing out of position for significant minutes each game. That’s a problem. Further, Randle doesn’t fit this team nearly as well as Naz because he can’t spread the floor and tends to hold the ball far too much. Naz is a better 3-point shooter, more mobile, a better ball-handler, less prone to stall the ball and actually a better defender. He’s also younger and close personally to our two young core guys, Ant and Jaden. So he’s definitely the guy to move forward with.

The essential point is that the Randle/Naz tandem at PF doesn’t make sense at any salary and Randle in particular isn’t an optimal fit. I wanted to move Randle last summer but alas. It will be a terrible disappointment if they fail to move him this summer. I agree with you that we need to get worthwhile talent in return for Randle and I think we can do that.

My mind is generally in the same place as yours. We know the Wolves front office needs to do something significantly this summer but we have no idea exactly what that should be. . Although, it seems clear to me we need to re-sign Ayo and move Randle for the best possible return. Otherwise, I guess we have to put our trust in TC and his staff. This is the best front office this franchise has ever had in my view. I know that’s not saying much given the history of this franchise, but it’s a positive.

[Monster]

Randle is a good player, but his fit on the Wolves was somewhat dubious from the start. I mean, we have $70M-$80M per year tied up in two guys (Julius and Naz) that play the exact same position. It makes no sense.

Presumably by trading him we get something in return and that something will help offset some of his production along with asking Naz, Jaden, and Joan to step up and do more.

As for Rocco, I think he has the potential to take on the Joan role of last season, which is basically as a 3rd string Center that doesn't play a whole lot.

You say that Randle and Naz being on the roster for a combined amount of money for someone that plays one position doesn't make sense and didn't feol the beginning. Let's be real here. Those 2 guys this season cost less combined than Towns and that will be the case next season if Randle is still on the roster and that doesn't even include the fact that it's 2 roster spots instead of one. This is another reason why that Fox contract is gonna be tough starting next year. Just as an example he will cost almost 20 million more than Randle and it's not like he is vastly better if at all depending on what you need on your roster.

I agree that reconfiguring the roster makes sense especially if Rocco is ready for that type of role you suggest. It makes sense to open up minutes for Beringer too. To me while putting together a roster that makes sense the biggest issue for years for the Wolves was not having enough talent. If we move Randle it's gotta bring back something worthwhile in some way shape or form and then like I said they need to add something to that frontcourt in some way shape or form. Some of that adding talent is young players stepping up and growing into roles. That could even be Naz who has been around a long time but still can improve and take on a bigger role. Beringer and TSJ need to make a meaningful step forward. It could also be other guys. For the Knicks Shamet has been a pretty important player for them. He was brought back on the vet min and I don't know how many people thought he would be a key rotation player oma team in the finals. It doesn't shock me but that was somewhat unexpected. Can the Wolves find someone like that? Maybe Bones is brought back on the vet min or a small raise and takes another step forward and becomes a better player. There are lots of paths to improve although as we are all aware none of them are certain. It does seem like Randle moving on has a more than decent chance of happening. One of the positives is that Chet Struggled so much against Wemby it probably helps Randle's case after a tough series against the Spurs. I think there are gonna be teams that will be interested in taking on Randle while moving on from someone else that costs money. There are a number of higher paid players that seem likely to get moved around so Randle being in one of those deals seems reasonable. Sometimes it's good to have a guy making that type of salary to make a deal possible. I'm trying not to get caught up in trying to figure things out but it's a compelling off-season and I think everyone here agrees something needs to and will happen. We all know Connelly is gonna be looking at all the options and isn't afraid to pull the trigger on a deal.

Monster - I generally agree with you. But I think Q is right that having Randle and Naz on our roster doesn’t make sense - or at least isn’t optimal. I get your point about KAT’s salary compared to the combined salaries Randle and Naz, but KAT is a much better player than Randle. More importantly, unlike Naz and Randle, KAT is a center as much as he is a PF. Therefore, KAT and Naz could play together effectively. Randle/Naz is a terrible combo as they are both strictly PFs. Each of those two has a very reasonable contract, but having them both has never made much sense to me. They are both high-quality players who should be on the court 30-35 minutes per game at a minimum to get the most out of them. Yet, there are only 48 minutes at each position, which means one or the other ends up playing out of position for significant minutes each game. That’s a problem. Further, Randle doesn’t fit this team nearly as well as Naz because he can’t spread the floor and tends to hold the ball far too much. Naz is a better 3-point shooter, more mobile, a better ball-handler, less prone to stall the ball and actually a better defender. He’s also younger and close personally to our two young core guys, Ant and Jaden. So he’s definitely the guy to move forward with.

The essential point is that the Randle/Naz tandem at PF doesn’t make sense at any salary and Randle in particular isn’t an optimal fit. I wanted to move Randle last summer but alas. It will be a terrible disappointment if they fail to move him this summer. I agree with you that we need to get worthwhile talent in return for Randle and I think we can do that.

My mind is generally in the same place as yours. We know the Wolves front office needs to do something significantly this summer but we have no idea exactly what that should be. . Although, it seems clear to me we need to re-sign Ayo and move Randle for the best possible return. Otherwise, I guess we have to put our trust in TC and his staff. This is the best front office this franchise has ever had in my view. I know that’s not saying much given the history of this franchise, but it’s a positive.

I do that trade every single time. In my view Towns is not 20+ million better player than Randle. The reality is Naz is closer to being a SF than he is a center and I don't think too many of us would have said that a couple years ago if were really pushed to make a stance that way. I know you have been a big supporter of Towns and to be honest I was too before he was dealt. I'm happy things are going well for him I was never wanting him off the roster but I also thought the trade made a lot of basketball sense even before the salary consideration which is a big deal. It's totally ok that we disagree on Towns value or whatever. I don't want to have some disagreement between us about how good Towns is or isn't but I do want to state my position in this context.

Meanwhile in terms of fit which I don't disagree on I will add that while Randle has his issues with the ball in his hands but part of the issue this roster had and still has is lack of playmaking. Randle helped with that during his time here. We still haven't solved that but at least Edwards has taken legit steps forward in that area so it's not like we have to have a true PG next to him. How much of a PG do we need? That's been discussed and will continue. Ideally we get more playmaking shot creation up and down the roster and more guys that move the ball around. This is partly why I'd like to see Anderson back if it's on a vet min deal. I know he has his flaws too but I think for a few minutes a game he can bring value to the roster.

Ultimately everyone seems aligned that it's likely Randle will be moved and most everyone things we will get something back for him. I think there are people that would be ok basically dumping him for nothing. If we could just dump him on a team take nearly nothing back and not have to include a draft pick to do so I would actually not be against that although that's not going to happen. There would be some real financial flexibility plus a huge trade exception. Connelly has been able to find value in his trades so I have confidence in him being able to move Randle for something worthwhile or something that facilities some other deal. Imo it's going to be a fun off-season. I'm gonna try and sit back and wait and see what happens other than the upcoming draft.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

If we could somehow turn Randle and Rudy into Jrue and Myles Turner, that would be kind of a best case scenario, IMO. Creates room for Naz to start, balances out the salaries so it's more evenly spread across starting positions, and fills needs (IQ, defense, floor spacing) while hitting the reset button on team chemistry.

However, I DO think that right now, our fanbase/podcast world . . .

. . . is a little too harsh on Randle . . .
. . . is a little too harsh on Rudy . . .
. . . is glazing KAT a bit much . . .
. . . and might be putting too much faith in Ant, Jaden, and Naz as a core.

Randle is not a great fit, and yeah, it seems like moving him would help reset the chemistry. But I've heard a few people now say we can't win with him because he doesn't space the floor and then advocate trading him for an even worse floor spacer (Giannis? Zion? Ja?) while getting excited about seeing more Beringer minutes. Uhhh . . . that's not helping the floor spacing issue.

Rudy, yeah, again, trading him seems like it would be a good way to reset the team chemistry and there are legitimate offensive problems with him on the floor. But I've heard some of the same people who advocate trading him complain that it's been our team's effort and defense that have been most lacking. If that's what we need, why trade the guy who's arguably the best at both of those things? I feel like I've even heard guys imply that the reason our team doesn't defend better is because Rudy's too good at D so the rest of the guys don't try hard, and thus conclude that Rudy's the problem and has to go. Uhh, what? Counterpoint--maybe the problem is the guys not defending hard?

As for KAT, it feels like a lot of fans have some collective selective memory about him. Is he playing better defense now? Sure. But let's please not forget what a defensive sieve he was for us except that one unsustainable year when we blitzed everything and the next year when he was playing next to Rudy. Plus the money would have limited our depth.

Finally, are we sure Ant, Jaden, and Naz aren't part of the problem? Even a little? It seems like we might be overlooking that to some degree. Will Jaden shoot 40% again from 3 or drop back down to 33% like the previous two years? Also, guess who shot better from 3 in the playoffs this year, Jaden or Julius? Look it up. I'm not saying that's not a problem with Julius, but if we're going to point to Randle's 3 point % to say he can't stay on the team, we should at least admit it's a concern with Jaden too otherwise we're being inconsistent. And Naz's offensive skillset is amazing, but can he really defend? Next to Rudy, sure. But what if we trade Rudy? Finally, I love Ant. Dude's a stud. But c'mon. He sets the tone for the team as a whole, and his inconsistent (at best) D this year was part of why this team has really started to flake out on that end. But because he's so great offensively, it's like we can't allow ourselves to really admit the truth--his poor defense is arguably the single biggest thing holding our team back. Obviously, you don't trade him unless you absolutely need to. But if we really want to make the right moves, we have to be totally honest with ourselves about where our shortcomings are, and I think that's one of the biggest right there.

I don't doubt there are chemistry and skillset reasons to move on from Randle and Rudy, but I'd just like to gently push back on what has felt like a consensus that feels like it has kind of put the majority of the blame for our shortcomings on them while largely sparing Ant, Jaden, and Naz. I think that the story is more complicated than that, and that it's possible that we're setting ourselves up for disappointment later by not being a little more realistic about Ant, Jaden, and Naz's shortcomings too.

[Monster]

If we could somehow turn Randle and Rudy into Jrue and Myles Turner, that would be kind of a best case scenario, IMO. Creates room for Naz to start, balances out the salaries so it's more evenly spread across starting positions, and fills needs (IQ, defense, floor spacing) while hitting the reset button on team chemistry.

However, I DO think that right now, our fanbase/podcast world . . .

. . . is a little too harsh on Randle . . .
. . . is a little too harsh on Rudy . . .
. . . is glazing KAT a bit much . . .
. . . and might be putting too much faith in Ant, Jaden, and Naz as a core.

Randle is not a great fit, and yeah, it seems like moving him would help reset the chemistry. But I've heard a few people now say we can't win with him because he doesn't space the floor and then advocate trading him for an even worse floor spacer (Giannis? Zion? Ja?) while getting excited about seeing more Beringer minutes. Uhhh . . . that's not helping the floor spacing issue.

Rudy, yeah, again, trading him seems like it would be a good way to reset the team chemistry and there are legitimate offensive problems with him on the floor. But I've heard some of the same people who advocate trading him complain that it's been our team's effort and defense that have been most lacking. If that's what we need, why trade the guy who's arguably the best at both of those things? I feel like I've even heard guys imply that the reason our team doesn't defend better is because Rudy's too good at D so the rest of the guys don't try hard, and thus conclude that Rudy's the problem and has to go. Uhh, what? Counterpoint--maybe the problem is the guys not defending hard?

As for KAT, it feels like a lot of fans have some collective selective memory about him. Is he playing better defense now? Sure. But let's please not forget what a defensive sieve he was for us except that one unsustainable year when we blitzed everything and the next year when he was playing next to Rudy. Plus the money would have limited our depth.

Finally, are we sure Ant, Jaden, and Naz aren't part of the problem? Even a little? It seems like we might be overlooking that to some degree. Will Jaden shoot 40% again from 3 or drop back down to 33% like the previous two years? Also, guess who shot better from 3 in the playoffs this year, Jaden or Julius? Look it up. I'm not saying that's not a problem with Julius, but if we're going to point to Randle's 3 point % to say he can't stay on the team, we should at least admit it's a concern with Jaden too otherwise we're being inconsistent. And Naz's offensive skillset is amazing, but can he really defend? Next to Rudy, sure. But what if we trade Rudy? Finally, I love Ant. Dude's a stud. But c'mon. He sets the tone for the team as a whole, and his inconsistent (at best) D this year was part of why this team has really started to flake out on that end. But because he's so great offensively, it's like we can't allow ourselves to really admit the truth--his poor defense is arguably the single biggest thing holding our team back. Obviously, you don't trade him unless you absolutely need to. But if we really want to make the right moves, we have to be totally honest with ourselves about where our shortcomings are, and I think that's one of the biggest right there.

I don't doubt there are chemistry and skillset reasons to move on from Randle and Rudy, but I'd just like to gently push back on what has felt like a consensus that feels like it has kind of put the majority of the blame for our shortcomings on them while largely sparing Ant, Jaden, and Naz. I think that the story is more complicated than that, and that it's possible that we're setting ourselves up for disappointment later by not being a little more realistic about Ant, Jaden, and Naz's shortcomings too.

I completely agree with everything you said on the state of the Wolves.

[KiwiMatt]

Julius Randle's 'fit on the court' isn't about his playing ability or skill set fitting around the other starters. It's about his mental state. He effectively gave up in game 6 against the Spurs, after not showing up at all during the playoffs and being miserable since the trade deadline when his name was bought up in trade rumors'. There's no excuse for that. You can't have that on the court, let alone in the locker room. He is mentally all over the show and it is well and truly rubbing off on other players.

Interestingly Julius hasn't appeared in any Wolves promotional stuff this off season. The fan base as a whole has spoken and there's a 99% chance he's not a Wolf come October.

What is unknown is his trade value. I think as a whole we undervalue what we might get in return for him.

[Q-is-here]

If we could somehow turn Randle and Rudy into Jrue and Myles Turner, that would be kind of a best case scenario, IMO. Creates room for Naz to start, balances out the salaries so it's more evenly spread across starting positions, and fills needs (IQ, defense, floor spacing) while hitting the reset button on team chemistry.

However, I DO think that right now, our fanbase/podcast world . . .

. . . is a little too harsh on Randle . . .
. . . is a little too harsh on Rudy . . .
. . . is glazing KAT a bit much . . .
. . . and might be putting too much faith in Ant, Jaden, and Naz as a core.

Randle is not a great fit, and yeah, it seems like moving him would help reset the chemistry. But I've heard a few people now say we can't win with him because he doesn't space the floor and then advocate trading him for an even worse floor spacer (Giannis? Zion? Ja?) while getting excited about seeing more Beringer minutes. Uhhh . . . that's not helping the floor spacing issue.

Rudy, yeah, again, trading him seems like it would be a good way to reset the team chemistry and there are legitimate offensive problems with him on the floor. But I've heard some of the same people who advocate trading him complain that it's been our team's effort and defense that have been most lacking. If that's what we need, why trade the guy who's arguably the best at both of those things? I feel like I've even heard guys imply that the reason our team doesn't defend better is because Rudy's too good at D so the rest of the guys don't try hard, and thus conclude that Rudy's the problem and has to go. Uhh, what? Counterpoint--maybe the problem is the guys not defending hard?

As for KAT, it feels like a lot of fans have some collective selective memory about him. Is he playing better defense now? Sure. But let's please not forget what a defensive sieve he was for us except that one unsustainable year when we blitzed everything and the next year when he was playing next to Rudy. Plus the money would have limited our depth.

Finally, are we sure Ant, Jaden, and Naz aren't part of the problem? Even a little? It seems like we might be overlooking that to some degree. Will Jaden shoot 40% again from 3 or drop back down to 33% like the previous two years? Also, guess who shot better from 3 in the playoffs this year, Jaden or Julius? Look it up. I'm not saying that's not a problem with Julius, but if we're going to point to Randle's 3 point % to say he can't stay on the team, we should at least admit it's a concern with Jaden too otherwise we're being inconsistent. And Naz's offensive skillset is amazing, but can he really defend? Next to Rudy, sure. But what if we trade Rudy? Finally, I love Ant. Dude's a stud. But c'mon. He sets the tone for the team as a whole, and his inconsistent (at best) D this year was part of why this team has really started to flake out on that end. But because he's so great offensively, it's like we can't allow ourselves to really admit the truth--his poor defense is arguably the single biggest thing holding our team back. Obviously, you don't trade him unless you absolutely need to. But if we really want to make the right moves, we have to be totally honest with ourselves about where our shortcomings are, and I think that's one of the biggest right there.

I don't doubt there are chemistry and skillset reasons to move on from Randle and Rudy, but I'd just like to gently push back on what has felt like a consensus that feels like it has kind of put the majority of the blame for our shortcomings on them while largely sparing Ant, Jaden, and Naz. I think that the story is more complicated than that, and that it's possible that we're setting ourselves up for disappointment later by not being a little more realistic about Ant, Jaden, and Naz's shortcomings too.

I completely agree with everything you said on the state of the Wolves.

I think you might be missing some nuance Drew. Of course our failure to advance further these past two post-seasons aren't 100% on Randle and Rudy. Rudy especially has been so important to us.

But I do think there is a feeling that a certain ceiling has been reached and it will be difficult to get past that ceiling without re-configuring the roster to create more spacing on offense. Randle is the most obvious candidate to move because he has a guy right behind him in Naz that plays the exact same position and can shoot the ball. Go look at the team's Net Rating with the starting lineup over the last couple years with Naz in it instead of Randle and it's just flat out better, including in the playoffs.

Rudy is the more difficult one to move off of. That would truly be ripping the band-aid off and the risk is that whatever is gained offensively is overwhelmed by what is lost defensively. The other thing to consider though is that Rudy is one of the few assets we have (along with Ant and Jaden) that could bring back something of real significance to the team. What if between him and Randle we end up with a starting-caliber PG and top tier 3&D wing? Would we be better off?

In Tim Connelly we trust!

[FNG]

If we could somehow turn Randle and Rudy into Jrue and Myles Turner, that would be kind of a best case scenario, IMO. Creates room for Naz to start, balances out the salaries so it's more evenly spread across starting positions, and fills needs (IQ, defense, floor spacing) while hitting the reset button on team chemistry.

However, I DO think that right now, our fanbase/podcast world . . .

. . . is a little too harsh on Randle . . .
. . . is a little too harsh on Rudy . . .
. . . is glazing KAT a bit much . . .
. . . and might be putting too much faith in Ant, Jaden, and Naz as a core.

Randle is not a great fit, and yeah, it seems like moving him would help reset the chemistry. But I've heard a few people now say we can't win with him because he doesn't space the floor and then advocate trading him for an even worse floor spacer (Giannis? Zion? Ja?) while getting excited about seeing more Beringer minutes. Uhhh . . . that's not helping the floor spacing issue.

Rudy, yeah, again, trading him seems like it would be a good way to reset the team chemistry and there are legitimate offensive problems with him on the floor. But I've heard some of the same people who advocate trading him complain that it's been our team's effort and defense that have been most lacking. If that's what we need, why trade the guy who's arguably the best at both of those things? I feel like I've even heard guys imply that the reason our team doesn't defend better is because Rudy's too good at D so the rest of the guys don't try hard, and thus conclude that Rudy's the problem and has to go. Uhh, what? Counterpoint--maybe the problem is the guys not defending hard?

As for KAT, it feels like a lot of fans have some collective selective memory about him. Is he playing better defense now? Sure. But let's please not forget what a defensive sieve he was for us except that one unsustainable year when we blitzed everything and the next year when he was playing next to Rudy. Plus the money would have limited our depth.

Finally, are we sure Ant, Jaden, and Naz aren't part of the problem? Even a little? It seems like we might be overlooking that to some degree. Will Jaden shoot 40% again from 3 or drop back down to 33% like the previous two years? Also, guess who shot better from 3 in the playoffs this year, Jaden or Julius? Look it up. I'm not saying that's not a problem with Julius, but if we're going to point to Randle's 3 point % to say he can't stay on the team, we should at least admit it's a concern with Jaden too otherwise we're being inconsistent. And Naz's offensive skillset is amazing, but can he really defend? Next to Rudy, sure. But what if we trade Rudy? Finally, I love Ant. Dude's a stud. But c'mon. He sets the tone for the team as a whole, and his inconsistent (at best) D this year was part of why this team has really started to flake out on that end. But because he's so great offensively, it's like we can't allow ourselves to really admit the truth--his poor defense is arguably the single biggest thing holding our team back. Obviously, you don't trade him unless you absolutely need to. But if we really want to make the right moves, we have to be totally honest with ourselves about where our shortcomings are, and I think that's one of the biggest right there.

I don't doubt there are chemistry and skillset reasons to move on from Randle and Rudy, but I'd just like to gently push back on what has felt like a consensus that feels like it has kind of put the majority of the blame for our shortcomings on them while largely sparing Ant, Jaden, and Naz. I think that the story is more complicated than that, and that it's possible that we're setting ourselves up for disappointment later by not being a little more realistic about Ant, Jaden, and Naz's shortcomings too.

I completely agree with everything you said on the state of the Wolves.

Yeah, I also agree with a lot of what Drew wrote. This board has pretty much concluded that Randle is gone, and I'm on board if we get something back that makes us better. But the return better include someone who can replace Ju's production...we seem to overlook the fact that he led the team in assists and was second in both rebounds and points per game. That's a lot of production to replace!

As for Rudy, I'm afraid we may be looking at a rebuilding year if we move him...I've seen how our defense looks when he in off the court, and I'm not ready for an entire season of that. So sure, move Rudy and/or Ju if it clearly makes us better. But we need to get solid facilitators and defenders in return or we're looking at a long season.

[Lipoli390]

If we could somehow turn Randle and Rudy into Jrue and Myles Turner, that would be kind of a best case scenario, IMO. Creates room for Naz to start, balances out the salaries so it's more evenly spread across starting positions, and fills needs (IQ, defense, floor spacing) while hitting the reset button on team chemistry.

However, I DO think that right now, our fanbase/podcast world . . .

. . . is a little too harsh on Randle . . .
. . . is a little too harsh on Rudy . . .
. . . is glazing KAT a bit much . . .
. . . and might be putting too much faith in Ant, Jaden, and Naz as a core.

Randle is not a great fit, and yeah, it seems like moving him would help reset the chemistry. But I've heard a few people now say we can't win with him because he doesn't space the floor and then advocate trading him for an even worse floor spacer (Giannis? Zion? Ja?) while getting excited about seeing more Beringer minutes. Uhhh . . . that's not helping the floor spacing issue.

Rudy, yeah, again, trading him seems like it would be a good way to reset the team chemistry and there are legitimate offensive problems with him on the floor. But I've heard some of the same people who advocate trading him complain that it's been our team's effort and defense that have been most lacking. If that's what we need, why trade the guy who's arguably the best at both of those things? I feel like I've even heard guys imply that the reason our team doesn't defend better is because Rudy's too good at D so the rest of the guys don't try hard, and thus conclude that Rudy's the problem and has to go. Uhh, what? Counterpoint--maybe the problem is the guys not defending hard?

As for KAT, it feels like a lot of fans have some collective selective memory about him. Is he playing better defense now? Sure. But let's please not forget what a defensive sieve he was for us except that one unsustainable year when we blitzed everything and the next year when he was playing next to Rudy. Plus the money would have limited our depth.

Finally, are we sure Ant, Jaden, and Naz aren't part of the problem? Even a little? It seems like we might be overlooking that to some degree. Will Jaden shoot 40% again from 3 or drop back down to 33% like the previous two years? Also, guess who shot better from 3 in the playoffs this year, Jaden or Julius? Look it up. I'm not saying that's not a problem with Julius, but if we're going to point to Randle's 3 point % to say he can't stay on the team, we should at least admit it's a concern with Jaden too otherwise we're being inconsistent. And Naz's offensive skillset is amazing, but can he really defend? Next to Rudy, sure. But what if we trade Rudy? Finally, I love Ant. Dude's a stud. But c'mon. He sets the tone for the team as a whole, and his inconsistent (at best) D this year was part of why this team has really started to flake out on that end. But because he's so great offensively, it's like we can't allow ourselves to really admit the truth--his poor defense is arguably the single biggest thing holding our team back. Obviously, you don't trade him unless you absolutely need to. But if we really want to make the right moves, we have to be totally honest with ourselves about where our shortcomings are, and I think that's one of the biggest right there.

I don't doubt there are chemistry and skillset reasons to move on from Randle and Rudy, but I'd just like to gently push back on what has felt like a consensus that feels like it has kind of put the majority of the blame for our shortcomings on them while largely sparing Ant, Jaden, and Naz. I think that the story is more complicated than that, and that it's possible that we're setting ourselves up for disappointment later by not being a little more realistic about Ant, Jaden, and Naz's shortcomings too.

I completely agree with everything you said on the state of the Wolves.

Yeah, I also agree with a lot of what Drew wrote. This board has pretty much concluded that Randle is gone, and I'm on board if we get something back that makes us better. But the return better include someone who can replace Ju's production...we seem to overlook the fact that he led the team in assists and was second in both rebounds and points per game. That's a lot of production to replace!

As for Rudy, I'm afraid we may be looking at a rebuilding year if we move him...I've seen how our defense looks when he in off the court, and I'm not ready for an entire season of that. So sure, move Rudy and/or Ju if it clearly makes us better. But we need to get solid facilitators and defenders in return or we're looking at a long season.

I don’t think we need a player in return to replace Randle’s offensive production. We need to get talent in return that, with a slightly reconfigured roster and any free agent signings, results in a net improvement in the team’s winning percentage. I suspect that Jaden’s production would increase without Randle’s sticky fingers on the court with him. Naz too. Depending on who we get in return or who else we sign as a free agent, our defense could improve. We don’t need a player who replicates Randle’s production. We need a better configuration of players to get over the hump.

I’d be reluctant to trade Rudy. As Q pointed out, that’s a risky move. But moving Randle is the right move. Should we trade him JUST to get rid of him no matter who or what we get in return? Of course not. But we should shop him aggressively for the best return possible. Randle has value for the reasons you and others have suggested we shouldn’t be so anxious to move him. His offensive production stats speak for themselves. There are probably some teams that would see him as a good fit and be willing to give up meaningful value in return. I don’t have any idea who those teams are, but there probably out there and TC will know who they are given how well plugged in he is around the League.