And your starting PF for the 26-27 Minnesota TimberWolves is?

[TheFuture]

I'm with you FNG and I agree with Dane that we aren't a serious team if we don't acquire a starting caliber power forward. Our prime competitors have the option of going really big against us and that isn't going to be good. Due to our roster construction Jaden is still going to have to guard the best guard/wing every night. I was hoping that wasn't going to be the case this year, but who else is going to do it? You might say Ayo, but I believe he is far more suited to coming off the bench. You can put TSJ at power forward but what kind of a solution is that for a contending team? I also expect TC to make a move, I hope it comes before the season starts but I could see it occurring during the season. Either way, it needs to happen. There are so many teams with a glut of power forwards that it shouldn't be too difficult to find the right guy.

It's a good discussion, Cool, between those who think we are fine at PF without making a move and those that side with Dane that it's essential for us to add some legitimate size if we want to contend...time will tell which take is correct, I guess. Or it will become a moot discussion if TC is successful in bringing in a true PF.

One thing you and I have in common is we have both coached a lot (maybe several others here have too). And while schemes and teaching skills are important, I always thought my most important role in coaching either basketball or baseball was to put my players in the best possible role for them to succeed. Last year Finchy's biggest issue was finding a true PG, and when TC didn't help him with this, he had to shoehorn guys like Ant and Ayo into a role they are not cut out for. It wasn't a disaster, but I thought it was a disservice to both of them. That issue will be solved with a hopefully healthy Ball. But it's created a new issue for Finchy, and I think we're being naive if we don't think he brings it up every day to his boss. I imagine him saying "Tim, thank you for getting me Ball, but I'm going to be judged on our team's performance, and you're asking me to believe one (or more) of these three things:
1)A guy nicknamed Slim who has established a solid reputation as an elite wing defender isn't going to struggle defending guys 50 pounds heavier than him, or
2) All of our guys who are 7-4 or 7-5 long will be just fine guarding PFs who are six to ten inches longer, or
3) Our problem is solved because we now have Trey Lyles."

I guess anyone of these could prove to be true, but I would give number 3 the best chance...but even that is doubtful. TC has said there are "internal options" they are looking at, but he has to say that to keep selling tickets...it's that comment that Dane deems unserious. I'm a Wolves fan, so I'll be hoping one of the three things above proves true, just like I hoped Ant or Ayo would be a legitimate PG. But of course you can crap in one hand and wish in the other and see which hand gets filled first!

And that's why I'm still confident TC will make a big move...maybe not now, but certainly by the end of the year if the "Jaden et al at PF" experiment doesn't pan out.

Can Jaden guard bigger players as well as anyone on our roster? Absolutely. Will Jaden find himself in constant foul trouble doing so? Again absolutely. This goes along with your point about putting players in the best position to succeed. When Jaden is on the bench with 3 fouls in the second quarter, we are going to be in a world of shit. Not only do we not have our best wing defender, but we are going to be stretched even thinner guarding other teams 4's. It's also going to make us weaker offensively as Ant, Ayo, and TSJ will be more relied on for defense. And if we have to play Beringer at the 4, our offense will suffer even more.

Our frontcourt hinges on Rudy staying absolutely the gold standard of health as a big, Jaden slotting up and staying out of foul trouble, Trey Lyles being more than an end of bench NBA player/Euro player, and Beringer proving he can handle rotation minutes and stay out of foul trouble himself. When any one of them gets hurt, all of the issues magnify immensely. I don't like it at all. I mean, do we really expect all 3/4 of them to play 82 games? We don't even have a Luka Garza to eat a handful of minutes. Rocco belongs in Gleague all year.

[Coolbreeze44]

We won't be starting a PF. Like Spurs, we will start 4 guards/wings.

Yes, That’s the reality. And as we all know, it worked out pretty well for the Spurs. I suppose there is a chance Lyles ends up starting at PF.

Yeah and the Spurs went out and drafted two power forwards. Hmmm, I wonder why.

[Coolbreeze44]

It's a good discussion, Cool, between those who think we are fine at PF without making a move and those that side with Dane that it's essential for us to add some legitimate size if we want to contend...time will tell which take is correct, I guess. Or it will become a moot discussion if TC is successful in bringing in a true PF.

One thing you and I have in common is we have both coached a lot (maybe several others here have too). And while schemes and teaching skills are important, I always thought my most important role in coaching either basketball or baseball was to put my players in the best possible role for them to succeed. Last year Finchy's biggest issue was finding a true PG, and when TC didn't help him with this, he had to shoehorn guys like Ant and Ayo into a role they are not cut out for. It wasn't a disaster, but I thought it was a disservice to both of them. That issue will be solved with a hopefully healthy Ball. But it's created a new issue for Finchy, and I think we're being naive if we don't think he brings it up every day to his boss. I imagine him saying "Tim, thank you for getting me Ball, but I'm going to be judged on our team's performance, and you're asking me to believe one (or more) of these three things:
1)A guy nicknamed Slim who has established a solid reputation as an elite wing defender isn't going to struggle defending guys 50 pounds heavier than him, or
2) All of our guys who are 7-4 or 7-5 long will be just fine guarding PFs who are six to ten inches longer, or
3) Our problem is solved because we now have Trey Lyles."

I guess anyone of these could prove to be true, but I would give number 3 the best chance...but even that is doubtful. TC has said there are "internal options" they are looking at, but he has to say that to keep selling tickets...it's that comment that Dane deems unserious. I'm a Wolves fan, so I'll be hoping one of the three things above proves true, just like I hoped Ant or Ayo would be a legitimate PG. But of course you can crap in one hand and wish in the other and see which hand gets filled first!

And that's why I'm still confident TC will make a big move...maybe not now, but certainly by the end of the year if the "Jaden et al at PF" experiment doesn't pan out.

Can Jaden guard bigger players as well as anyone on our roster? Absolutely. Will Jaden find himself in constant foul trouble doing so? Again absolutely. This goes along with your point about putting players in the best position to succeed. When Jaden is on the bench with 3 fouls in the second quarter, we are going to be in a world of shit. Not only do we not have our best wing defender, but we are going to be stretched even thinner guarding other teams 4's. It's also going to make us weaker offensively as Ant, Ayo, and TSJ will be more relied on for defense. And if we have to play Beringer at the 4, our offense will suffer even more.

Our frontcourt hinges on Rudy staying absolutely the gold standard of health as a big, Jaden slotting up and staying out of foul trouble, Trey Lyles being more than an end of bench NBA player/Euro player, and Beringer proving he can handle rotation minutes and stay out of foul trouble himself. When any one of them gets hurt, all of the issues magnify immensely. I don't like it at all. I mean, do we really expect all 3/4 of them to play 82 games? We don't even have a Luka Garza to eat a handful of minutes. Rocco belongs in Gleague all year.

The Future really can see the future. Any normal absences and we are in deep shit. There will be games where Jaden gets in foul trouble as we've seen him do countless times, and then Beringer picks up 3 quick ones in 5 minutes. Meanwhile Rudy is sitting out because he has accumulated too many flagrants, and TSJ's toe flares up and he has to go on the injured list. Well.......I think you get the point.

[BeenLurkin]

How many teams can survive their 4 top forward/center options missing a game or a lengthy stretch?

[FNG]

We won't be starting a PF. Like Spurs, we will start 4 guards/wings.

Yes, That’s the reality. And as we all know, it worked out pretty well for the Spurs. I suppose there is a chance Lyles ends up starting at PF.

Yeah and the Spurs went out and drafted two power forwards. Hmmm, I wonder why.

Yeah, I think we are misinterpreting the Spurs situation when we compare their PF situation last year to ours. In fact, I think an analysis of what they did and are doing is another argument supporting the assertion that we are misusing Jaden if we put him at the 4.

Champagnie may not have the "perfect" size for an NBA PF, but he's much better suited than Jaden. He's long like Jaden (8-11 standing reach), and while his weight is slightly less than average for an NBA PF, he outweighs Jaden by over 30 pounds! And despite Julian having close to PF size (unlike Jaden) the Spurs still thought he was too small and went out and got the bulkier Tobias Harris. The Spurs know that you need to be big up front to compete in the NBA, and they worked to correct this in the offseason by drafting two huge bodies and signing Harris. The Spurs got much bigger in the offseason, and the Wolves got smaller. Lyles may be the answer, but I still think TC has something else in mind to get done before January.

[AussieWolf3]

Yes, That’s the reality. And as we all know, it worked out pretty well for the Spurs. I suppose there is a chance Lyles ends up starting at PF.

Yeah and the Spurs went out and drafted two power forwards. Hmmm, I wonder why.

Yeah, I think we are misinterpreting the Spurs situation when we compare their PF situation last year to ours. In fact, I think an analysis of what they did and are doing is another argument supporting the assertion that we are misusing Jaden if we put him at the 4.

Champagnie may not have the "perfect" size for an NBA PF, but he's much better suited than Jaden. He's long like Jaden (8-11 standing reach), and while his weight is slightly less than average for an NBA PF, he outweighs Jaden by over 30 pounds! And despite Julian having close to PF size (unlike Jaden) the Spurs still thought he was too small and went out and got the bulkier Tobias Harris. The Spurs know that you need to be big up front to compete in the NBA, and they worked to correct this in the offseason by drafting two huge bodies and signing Harris. The Spurs got much bigger in the offseason, and the Wolves got smaller. Lyles may be the answer, but I still think TC has something else in mind to get done before January.

Jaden. Doesn't. Weigh. One hundred and eighty five pounds!

Can we stop with this narrative? If Jaden is too small to play PF than Chet and Wemby aren't centers.

Also Tobais Harris and Julian are nearly the same size. They added him because he was a good free agent and they could afford him. There single biggest issue wasn't size against the Knicks, it was the fact that their offense was set up to run through DeAaron Fox.

I'm not saying there is no risk or no downsides to the current roster setup and the fact that Chris Finch himself expressed doubt about Jaden being a PF speaks volumes but people have completely jumped the shark imo

[rapsuperstar31]

We won't be starting a PF. Like Spurs, we will start 4 guards/wings.

Yes, That’s the reality. And as we all know, it worked out pretty well for the Spurs. I suppose there is a chance Lyles ends up starting at PF.

Yeah and the Spurs went out and drafted two power forwards. Hmmm, I wonder why.

I don't think either guy the Spurs drafted this year will be ready to contribute this season. One is very injury prone, and probably wont play this year. The Knicks won the championship without a pf on the team with 4 of their starters being 6-7 or under. I think it's fine for a one season experiment to see if it works, but it's hard to say how many more good years Rudy has left in him, so we do want to put the best team out there for as long as he is still on the team. Now if we eventually trade Rudy, than you expand the window further.

[FNG]

Yeah and the Spurs went out and drafted two power forwards. Hmmm, I wonder why.

Yeah, I think we are misinterpreting the Spurs situation when we compare their PF situation last year to ours. In fact, I think an analysis of what they did and are doing is another argument supporting the assertion that we are misusing Jaden if we put him at the 4.

Champagnie may not have the "perfect" size for an NBA PF, but he's much better suited than Jaden. He's long like Jaden (8-11 standing reach), and while his weight is slightly less than average for an NBA PF, he outweighs Jaden by over 30 pounds! And despite Julian having close to PF size (unlike Jaden) the Spurs still thought he was too small and went out and got the bulkier Tobias Harris. The Spurs know that you need to be big up front to compete in the NBA, and they worked to correct this in the offseason by drafting two huge bodies and signing Harris. The Spurs got much bigger in the offseason, and the Wolves got smaller. Lyles may be the answer, but I still think TC has something else in mind to get done before January.

Jaden. Doesn't. Weigh. One hundred and eighty five pounds!

Can we stop with this narrative? If Jaden is too small to play PF than Chet and Wemby aren't centers.

Also Tobais Harris and Julian are nearly the same size. They added him because he was a good free agent and they could afford him. There single biggest issue wasn't size against the Knicks, it was the fact that their offense was set up to run through DeAaron Fox.

I'm not saying there is no risk or no downsides to the current roster setup and the fact that Chris Finch himself expressed doubt about Jaden being a PF speaks volumes but people have completely jumped the shark imo

Not sure where you get your inside information about Jaden's weight, Aussie , but I'm going to go by what I see on the court and his listed weight...it's really all we have to go by when comparing players. Jaden has about as skinny a lower body as any big I've seen in the NBA...he really stands out when you go to a game. Chet also...I think both of them would love to add some bulk if they could, but some body types just can't get bigger. Chet and Victor though have the advantage over Jaden of at least 6 inches of length...a 9 1/2 foot standing reach makes up somewhat for a less than ideal weight!

I agree that size wasn't the biggest issue for the Spurs against the Knicks, but their brain trust clearly thought it was a problem that needed to be fixed as evidenced by their bringing in three bigs in the offseason. I can't get into TC's head, but I hope he is laser focused on bringing in someone that will let Jaden play his natural position.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Wouldn't the bigger issue with McDaniels guarding 4s be that he can no longer be the primary point-of-attack defender that Finch has mentioned he wants to continue?

[AussieWolf3]

Wouldn't the bigger issue with McDaniels guarding 4s be that he can no longer be the primary point-of-attack defender that Finch has mentioned he wants to continue?

This is my primary concern as well and the fact that a lot is riding on Joan being a dependable and formidable backup center. That latter part is pretty significant imo and is a lot to ask of a 2nd year player.

I personally think that between Ayo, Clark, Green, Ant and even Melo hopefully even TJ that there is a lot of length and switchablity that you can throw out on the perimeter and actually be in a really good situation. Its why I really push back on the idea that they're gonna be weaker defensively this year after getting rid of one of their worst defenders.

The Spurs for example don't actually have a lot of guys who most would have regarded as great wing/perimeter defenders but they had Wemby, Castle took a big leap and they could just throw so many guys at you that it really allowed them be a dominant defense. Vassell, Champenie, Fox, and even Castle were not highly thought of defenders and didn't measure out well there analytically before last year, and now all the sudden they're all world? I think there is more going on there maybe, huh. And it's very very easy for me to see how this can be replicated here with Rudy and Jaden Manning the back line. Ayo needs to improve, Ant has to take it personally 100% of the time and the rest of the guys need to do their job when called upon but I really think there's a world where this team's defense got better.

I'm in the minority there but I'll stand by it. Biggest concern is rebounding imo and big PF will be a weakness defensively but that isn't anything new and there aren't actually that many of those guys.

Again, Finch's statements on this weigh pretty heavily against me here and that matters to me, but to be honest I think he gonna figure it out.