Kuminga is officially a wolf

[Phenom]

Honestly trading Green for whoever is better than stretching him. Stretching DLO would be much more palatable.

I will say some of that value of stretching Green is they come bring in 2 minimum players. 1 player they are required to do but the other creates flexibility, they could sign a second vet min later now, maybe a two way player pops and want to give them a team contract or they can be players at the buyout market (for players under the MLE)

Just want to say it’s not all bad if Green is stretched.

I agree, Kek. It’s not all that bad and it might be the best option for the Wolves. Any deal we do will bring in a player with at least two guaranteed years left on his contract, possibly three or four, because that’s what would give the other team value in a trade for Josh Green. We don’t have draft picks to attach and it would be foolish in my view to attach TSJ or Clark. If we take back a player with two or more years left, that player will probably be an end-of-bench guy, which would make him no different in essence from three years of Green’s dead money contract on the books. Either way, we’d have anywhere from $2.5M to 5.0M on the books in a player who doesn’t play.

I think having near 5 million of dead money, for not just this season but the following season could make it really difficult to fill out the roster the next couple of years. I think it is not unreasonable to believe Kuminga will only be here this season and the team will be looking for bargains again next offseason. As we see a couple million makes a difference to getting deals done. There is no way out of that dead cap hit. The Wolves should avoid it by any means.

[Lipoli390]

I will say some of that value of stretching Green is they come bring in 2 minimum players. 1 player they are required to do but the other creates flexibility, they could sign a second vet min later now, maybe a two way player pops and want to give them a team contract or they can be players at the buyout market (for players under the MLE)

Just want to say it’s not all bad if Green is stretched.

I agree, Kek. It’s not all that bad and it might be the best option for the Wolves. Any deal we do will bring in a player with at least two guaranteed years left on his contract, possibly three or four, because that’s what would give the other team value in a trade for Josh Green. We don’t have draft picks to attach and it would be foolish in my view to attach TSJ or Clark. If we take back a player with two or more years left, that player will probably be an end-of-bench guy, which would make him no different in essence from three years of Green’s dead money contract on the books. Either way, we’d have anywhere from $2.5M to 5.0M on the books in a player who doesn’t play.

I think having near 5 million of dead money, for not just this season but the following season could make it really difficult to fill out the roster the next couple of years. I think it is not unreasonable to believe Kuminga will only be here this season and the team will be looking for bargains again next offseason. As we see a couple million makes a difference to getting deals done. There is no way out of that dead cap hit. The Wolves should avoid it by any means.

By any means? I hope not. Waiving and stretching Green while signing Kuminga will put us $7.6 under the 2nd apron. We can sign two players to one-year vet minimum deals to fill out the roster. If Kuminga moves on after this season we’d be $13.7M under this season’s 2nd apron assuming Donte signs a new deal starting at his current salary. But the Wolves could let Donte go and free up another $12.5M from his contract or start him at a lower salary on a new deal. Obviously, it’s better not to have dead money on the books. But taking back a player with a guaranteed contract for 2-3 years who won’t play isn’t much different from dead money. That sort of player provides no on-court value and has minimal market value as a trade asset. I’d still rather have a player at $5M for three years than dead money at that amount, but the difference isn’t substantial in my view unless the player is a rotation-worthy player. And that’s the rub. I don’t see us getting a rotation-worth player in exchange for Josh Green without adding TSJ or Jaylen Clark and that’s something I probably wouldn’t do, depending of course on the player we can get.

[FNG]

Some here have mentioned what an excellent rebounder JK is, but Flagrant Howls reported some data today that surprised me in a very good way. I believe they said he was in the 98th percentile last season in defensive rebounding and in the 70th percentile in offensive rebounding...that is elite! We already have Rudy, Ant and Ball who are all very good rebounders for their positions. Adding another excellent rebounder is going to make us one of the top rebounding teams I think.

On the negative side, the biggest risk in the JK acquisition is getting him to accept a much more limited usage rate. His rate last season would have had him 3rd on the Wolves, and there just isn't room for that high a rate when we already have Ball and Ant plus a developing Jaden. JK took less money to come here on a one year deal (plus a player option) rather than locking in for 3 years with the Lakers, so he is clearly looking at getting a big deal in free agency next summer. My concern is he may think a big PPG average, even if inefficient, is the key to getting a big contract. Finchy needs to convince him that playing excellent defense and averaging an efficient 14-16 PPG for a contending team is his best path to a lucrative contract.

[Q-is-here]

Some here have mentioned what an excellent rebounder JK is, but Flagrant Howls reported some data today that surprised me in a very good way. I believe they said he was in the 98th percentile last season in defensive rebounding and in the 70th percentile in offensive rebounding...that is elite! We already have Rudy, Ant and Ball who are all very good rebounders for their positions. Adding another excellent rebounder is going to make us one of the top rebounding teams I think.

On the negative side, the biggest risk in the JK acquisition is getting him to accept a much more limited usage rate. His rate last season would have had him 3rd on the Wolves, and there just isn't room for that high a rate when we already have Ball and Ant plus a developing Jaden. JK took less money to come here on a one year deal (plus a player option) rather than locking in for 3 years with the Lakers, so he is clearly looking at getting a big deal in free agency next summer. My concern is he may think a big PPG average, even if inefficient, is the key to getting a big contract. Finchy needs to convince him that playing excellent defense and averaging an efficient 14-16 PPG for a contending team is his best path to a lucrative contract.

That 98th percentile number can't be right FNG. He wasn't even in the top 20 in terms of defensive rebound % among NBA players and even Naz was better (Naz isn't among the top 20 in D-Reb% either), whereas 98th% implies like a top 5 or 6 rebounder.

Also, last season was an exception for Kuminga on the glass. He's normally been closer to a 15% d-rebound rate (which isn't bad, but isn't great either). There could be various reasons why it ticked up last season, but I'm not going to automatically assume he's going to match what he did in a fairly small sample of games last year.

For all of Kuminga's gifts athletically and the fact that he fills a hole positionally, I believe what ultimately will hold him back is his outside shot. It's simply not good enough for a modern-day starting 4.

[Phenom]

I agree, Kek. It’s not all that bad and it might be the best option for the Wolves. Any deal we do will bring in a player with at least two guaranteed years left on his contract, possibly three or four, because that’s what would give the other team value in a trade for Josh Green. We don’t have draft picks to attach and it would be foolish in my view to attach TSJ or Clark. If we take back a player with two or more years left, that player will probably be an end-of-bench guy, which would make him no different in essence from three years of Green’s dead money contract on the books. Either way, we’d have anywhere from $2.5M to 5.0M on the books in a player who doesn’t play.

I think having near 5 million of dead money, for not just this season but the following season could make it really difficult to fill out the roster the next couple of years. I think it is not unreasonable to believe Kuminga will only be here this season and the team will be looking for bargains again next offseason. As we see a couple million makes a difference to getting deals done. There is no way out of that dead cap hit. The Wolves should avoid it by any means.

By any means? I hope not. Waiving and stretching Green while signing Kuminga will put us $7.6 under the 2nd apron. We can sign two players to one-year vet minimum deals to fill out the roster. If Kuminga moves on after this season we’d be $13.7M under this season’s 2nd apron assuming Donte signs a new deal starting at his current salary. But the Wolves could let Donte go and free up another $12.5M from his contract or start him at a lower salary on a new deal. Obviously, it’s better not to have dead money on the books. But taking back a player with a guaranteed contract for 2-3 years who won’t play isn’t much different from dead money. That sort of player provides no on-court value and has minimal market value as a trade asset. I’d still rather have a player at $5M for three years than dead money at that amount, but the difference isn’t substantial in my view unless the player is a rotation-worthy player. And that’s the rub. I don’t see us getting a rotation-worth player in exchange for Josh Green without adding TSJ or Jaylen Clark and that’s something I probably wouldn’t do, depending of course on the player we can get.

Man I sure hope we don't have to revisit this in a year and lament that dead money. I feel like that's an oversight that many here would roast TC for.

Ideally he has in mind that some teams have multiple guaranteed contracts over the maximum amount. If they are going to cut/waive/buyout/stretch any of them, they might as well consolidate one or two into Josh Green.

[Monster]

I think having near 5 million of dead money, for not just this season but the following season could make it really difficult to fill out the roster the next couple of years. I think it is not unreasonable to believe Kuminga will only be here this season and the team will be looking for bargains again next offseason. As we see a couple million makes a difference to getting deals done. There is no way out of that dead cap hit. The Wolves should avoid it by any means.

By any means? I hope not. Waiving and stretching Green while signing Kuminga will put us $7.6 under the 2nd apron. We can sign two players to one-year vet minimum deals to fill out the roster. If Kuminga moves on after this season we’d be $13.7M under this season’s 2nd apron assuming Donte signs a new deal starting at his current salary. But the Wolves could let Donte go and free up another $12.5M from his contract or start him at a lower salary on a new deal. Obviously, it’s better not to have dead money on the books. But taking back a player with a guaranteed contract for 2-3 years who won’t play isn’t much different from dead money. That sort of player provides no on-court value and has minimal market value as a trade asset. I’d still rather have a player at $5M for three years than dead money at that amount, but the difference isn’t substantial in my view unless the player is a rotation-worthy player. And that’s the rub. I don’t see us getting a rotation-worth player in exchange for Josh Green without adding TSJ or Jaylen Clark and that’s something I probably wouldn’t do, depending of course on the player we can get.

Man I sure hope we don't have to revisit this in a year and lament that dead money. I feel like that's an oversight that many here would roast TC for.

Ideally he has in mind that some teams have multiple guaranteed contracts over the maximum amount. If they are going to cut/waive/buyout/stretch any of them, they might as well consolidate one or two into Josh Green.

Lip laid it out well and I think we are all in agreement. Nobody wants to add extra money beyond this season for players that will be overpaid. Why add a 10 million dollar Josh Green type player to next year's books when you could just take the hit this year and get some benefit this season and still be paying less next year...except you still have to sign someone.

I tend to agree with Phenom that there has to be some team out there like Memphis that has guys they are gonna end up dumping anyways why not get a guy like Green who is a young vet on an expiring deal and can actually play. For the Wolves maybe they add someone that don't exactly want all that bad but instead of having nobody they would still have a salary they could trade to make a deal this season. Connelly has maneuvered like that before. I think it's possible we don't hear anything for a few days since a bunch of guys can't be dealt together till like Sept 8 or something. There could be some sort of shuffle the deck chairs 3 or 4 team deals like the ones we have see the last few days. For example if I remember right Trey Mann was kinda dealt twice as he was in one deal then it got expanded and he ended up going to the Wizards. We will probably trade Josh Green and get a younger guy in return. It's the 2026 Connelly off-season theme. Lol

[FNG]

Some here have mentioned what an excellent rebounder JK is, but Flagrant Howls reported some data today that surprised me in a very good way. I believe they said he was in the 98th percentile last season in defensive rebounding and in the 70th percentile in offensive rebounding...that is elite! We already have Rudy, Ant and Ball who are all very good rebounders for their positions. Adding another excellent rebounder is going to make us one of the top rebounding teams I think.

On the negative side, the biggest risk in the JK acquisition is getting him to accept a much more limited usage rate. His rate last season would have had him 3rd on the Wolves, and there just isn't room for that high a rate when we already have Ball and Ant plus a developing Jaden. JK took less money to come here on a one year deal (plus a player option) rather than locking in for 3 years with the Lakers, so he is clearly looking at getting a big deal in free agency next summer. My concern is he may think a big PPG average, even if inefficient, is the key to getting a big contract. Finchy needs to convince him that playing excellent defense and averaging an efficient 14-16 PPG for a contending team is his best path to a lucrative contract.

That 98th percentile number can't be right FNG. He wasn't even in the top 20 in terms of defensive rebound % among NBA players and even Naz was better (Naz isn't among the top 20 in D-Reb% either), whereas 98th% implies like a top 5 or 6 rebounder.

Also, last season was an exception for Kuminga on the glass. He's normally been closer to a 15% d-rebound rate (which isn't bad, but isn't great either). There could be various reasons why it ticked up last season, but I'm not going to automatically assume he's going to match what he did in a fairly small sample of games last year.

For all of Kuminga's gifts athletically and the fact that he fills a hole positionally, I believe what ultimately will hold him back is his outside shot. It's simply not good enough for a modern-day starting 4.

Q, I misremembered the stat that Phil Mackey cited on his pod yesterday, but it's still really good...JK ranked in the 95th percentile of defensive rebounding last season (80% on offensive rebounding). The stat came from BBallIndex. I don't know if you subscribe to it (I don't...way too deep in the weeds for me...but I do review their posts on X). I can't tell you the complex formula for their stat, but it goes far beyond just raw rebounding stats. One thing Mackey mentioned yesterday is that because JK is so adept at switching onto smaller players, he often ends up defending on the perimeter...much like Jaden. That makes his raw rebounding numbers more impressive. The Hawks and Hornets were my two favorite non-Wolves teams to watch late last season, and I can say JK's rebounding was quite impressive.

The same BBall Index tweet ranks JK in the 82nd percentile in perimeter isolation defense, and that also matched my eye test...he looks a lot like Jaden on the perimeter. It wasn't surprising to me that the Hawks gave up 9.7 fewer points per 100 possessions when he was on the court. This was a complete turnaround on defense from the guy I watched with the Warriors.

But yeah, his shooting may turn out to be a problem if he is not properly managed. While his 34.7 3-point percentage was not bad (and an upgrade from Ju) his corner percentage was a very poor 29.2%...still despite the lack of success, he took almost half of his treys from the corners! My elementary math tells me that his 3-point shooting from other than the corners must have been really good last year, and he was also 54.8% on his 2-point attempts. The solution seems simple, doesn't it? Finchy needs to keep JK out of the corners and have him focus on getting to the rim and 3-pointers above the break. We'll have to see if he can do it.

[AussieWolf3]

https://youtu.be/VBKpba4vrEo?si=MFo5t8Q9mGNX6xFM

Howls and Growls latest, and it's a pretty good look at who Kuminga is and how things might look for the Wolves.

What Jake has to say about his offensive fit was pretty much in line with about I already understood and was concerned about. Although an interesting point was made about JK as a roll man partner and comparing it to Bridges and Melos partnership which was pretty fruitful I guess.

If this team is really gonna run than Kuminga will do well, he's a beast in transition, but I still have a lot of concern about his half court fit

What was most illuminating is what was said about his defense, and how he legitimately has the ability and has at times played like an elite POA defender. This is honestly surprising to me and not what I understood about him. If that turns out to be true and JK buys into it, than now we actually are looking at Jaden operating from his more optimal spot more often on defense.

Jake brought up a player than I can't believe I hadn't thought of but it a great analog--- Aaron Gordon. Another TC addition that not everybody understood, and returned fantastic results.

Can Kuminga have a similar type of buy in and metamorphosis?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I think having near 5 million of dead money, for not just this season but the following season could make it really difficult to fill out the roster the next couple of years. I think it is not unreasonable to believe Kuminga will only be here this season and the team will be looking for bargains again next offseason. As we see a couple million makes a difference to getting deals done. There is no way out of that dead cap hit. The Wolves should avoid it by any means.

By any means? I hope not. Waiving and stretching Green while signing Kuminga will put us $7.6 under the 2nd apron. We can sign two players to one-year vet minimum deals to fill out the roster. If Kuminga moves on after this season we’d be $13.7M under this season’s 2nd apron assuming Donte signs a new deal starting at his current salary. But the Wolves could let Donte go and free up another $12.5M from his contract or start him at a lower salary on a new deal. Obviously, it’s better not to have dead money on the books. But taking back a player with a guaranteed contract for 2-3 years who won’t play isn’t much different from dead money. That sort of player provides no on-court value and has minimal market value as a trade asset. I’d still rather have a player at $5M for three years than dead money at that amount, but the difference isn’t substantial in my view unless the player is a rotation-worthy player. And that’s the rub. I don’t see us getting a rotation-worth player in exchange for Josh Green without adding TSJ or Jaylen Clark and that’s something I probably wouldn’t do, depending of course on the player we can get.

Man I sure hope we don't have to revisit this in a year and lament that dead money. I feel like that's an oversight that many here would roast TC for.

Eventually (sooner than later)... the Wolves lack of assets is going to be a very real problem. It's unfortunate that the Wolves are going all in with two other teams that are clearly better than them in their own conference.

But I'm still ok with it. The first 30+ years of my Wolves fandom included A LOT of losing. More losing than literally any other franchise. So I'll adjust accordingly when the cupboards are bare and Edwards is traded for prospects. We've been there before.

Until then... I'll enjoy watching the squad win more than they lose and hopefully make another playoff run. Like Tim Connelly, we'll deal with the aftermath later...

... well actually. WE'LL (fans) deal with the aftermath. Tim Connelly will simply move on to his next job.

[rapsuperstar31]

By any means? I hope not. Waiving and stretching Green while signing Kuminga will put us $7.6 under the 2nd apron. We can sign two players to one-year vet minimum deals to fill out the roster. If Kuminga moves on after this season we’d be $13.7M under this season’s 2nd apron assuming Donte signs a new deal starting at his current salary. But the Wolves could let Donte go and free up another $12.5M from his contract or start him at a lower salary on a new deal. Obviously, it’s better not to have dead money on the books. But taking back a player with a guaranteed contract for 2-3 years who won’t play isn’t much different from dead money. That sort of player provides no on-court value and has minimal market value as a trade asset. I’d still rather have a player at $5M for three years than dead money at that amount, but the difference isn’t substantial in my view unless the player is a rotation-worthy player. And that’s the rub. I don’t see us getting a rotation-worth player in exchange for Josh Green without adding TSJ or Jaylen Clark and that’s something I probably wouldn’t do, depending of course on the player we can get.

Man I sure hope we don't have to revisit this in a year and lament that dead money. I feel like that's an oversight that many here would roast TC for.

Eventually (sooner than later)... the Wolves lack of assets is going to be a very real problem. It's unfortunate that the Wolves are going all in with two other teams that are clearly better than them in their own conference.

But I'm still ok with it. The first 30+ years of my Wolves fandom included A LOT of losing. More losing than literally any other franchise. So I'll adjust accordingly when the cupboards are bare and Edwards is traded for prospects. We've been there before.

Until then... I'll enjoy watching the squad win more than they lose and hopefully make another playoff run. Like Tim Connelly, we'll deal with the aftermath later...

... well actually. WE'LL (fans) deal with the aftermath. Tim Connelly will simply move on to his next job.

If we stay out of the 2nd apron the next few years, in two years we will have 3 more tradeable first round picks and 2 tradeable 2nd round picks. Every year opens another future pick. If you ever have to blow it up, Ant, Jaden, Ball should all be worth a treasure trove of picks.