The saddest thing is, JJ wasn't even that bad last year. I still had hope he'd come in and save our season this year. Now we have no hope.
I don't know...I thought overall he was really bad last season. He had a QBR of 36.1, which ranked 38th out of 45 QBs with at least 100 pass attempts. And very few QBs had a target out there like Jefferson who could turn a bad throw into a completion. I think the writing was on the wall when we brought in both Murray and Wentz, and even kept Brosmer. I suspect the Vikings were just waiting for a team with QB injuries that was willing to give us something in return. I'm a big fan of HOC, but he has to share the blame with Kwesi for this terrible draft pick.
You have to keep in mind he was basically a Rook and IDK, considering how pathetic the passing offense has been so far, it couldn't be any worse with JJ coming in. I really thought that was a very possible outcome and my preferred one. That JJ comes in to save the day at some point this year (more so before I heard he was demoted to 3rd string that is), the team and fanbase rallies behind him and we got our starter for the next decade as he makes strides getting better each season.
Now going into next year we got no QB. Maybe we can trade for Herbert? IDK, this QB carousel sucks. After seeing Kyler and Wentz, sure small sample size I suppose, but they aint it.
I also thought that maybe there was a chance McCarthy still had a chance to come in and do something. Wentz won the 2nd QB spot and has the experience too. The Vikings weren't really losing anything by just keeping McCarthy and he still was young so why not? The thing was if they didn't think he was gonna help them this year...he was basically only a year away from FA and they would have to decide whether to pay him.
There was a tweet today that had the worst QBs the last how er many games. McCarthy was bad but Maye wasn't a whole lot better. I'm sure Maye will put it back together in some way but wow he has been pretty bad and idk what reason or excuse he has. McCarthy was a rookie with a horrendous oline but has the offensive players around him. Maye was a MVP candidate last year. He shouldn't be dropping off this bad.
Let's see 2-4 or so games of the QB play and this offense. Maybe we learn the Bucs are a really good defensive team so that's something to keep in mind. Maybe it all starts coming together. Josh Oliver being out potentially the rest of the season isn't going to help although of course every team has injuries.
As for the QB carousel...ideally they land on someone for a few years. Maybe that will be Murray. Maybe they draft someone. Maybe they find the next FA project. Maybe they do a minor trade for a failed starter. If Murray doesn't work out whoever is responsible for the QB decisions going into the 2025 season does not look good. I would be interested to know what McCarthy's trade value was that season. Maybe it wasn't very high my guess was it wasn't as high as some people suggested even with the meh QB class in that draft. I would have signed Sam Darnold to the deal he signed with Seattle and worked from there. I wanted McCarthy to succeed here but oh well.
I don't know...I thought overall he was really bad last season. He had a QBR of 36.1, which ranked 38th out of 45 QBs with at least 100 pass attempts. And very few QBs had a target out there like Jefferson who could turn a bad throw into a completion. I think the writing was on the wall when we brought in both Murray and Wentz, and even kept Brosmer. I suspect the Vikings were just waiting for a team with QB injuries that was willing to give us something in return. I'm a big fan of HOC, but he has to share the blame with Kwesi for this terrible draft pick.
You have to keep in mind he was basically a Rook and IDK, considering how pathetic the passing offense has been so far, it couldn't be any worse with JJ coming in. I really thought that was a very possible outcome and my preferred one. That JJ comes in to save the day at some point this year (more so before I heard he was demoted to 3rd string that is), the team and fanbase rallies behind him and we got our starter for the next decade as he makes strides getting better each season.
Now going into next year we got no QB. Maybe we can trade for Herbert? IDK, this QB carousel sucks. After seeing Kyler and Wentz, sure small sample size I suppose, but they aint it.
I also thought that maybe there was a chance McCarthy still had a chance to come in and do something. Wentz won the 2nd QB spot and has the experience too. The Vikings weren't really losing anything by just keeping McCarthy and he still was young so why not? The thing was if they didn't think he was gonna help them this year...he was basically only a year away from FA and they would have to decide whether to pay him.
There was a tweet today that had the worst QBs the last how er many games. McCarthy was bad but Maye wasn't a whole lot better. I'm sure Maye will put it back together in some way but wow he has been pretty bad and idk what reason or excuse he has. McCarthy was a rookie with a horrendous oline but has the offensive players around him. Maye was a MVP candidate last year. He shouldn't be dropping off this bad.
Let's see 2-4 or so games of the QB play and this offense. Maybe we learn the Bucs are a really good defensive team so that's something to keep in mind. Maybe it all starts coming together. Josh Oliver being out potentially the rest of the season isn't going to help although of course every team has injuries.
As for the QB carousel...ideally they land on someone for a few years. Maybe that will be Murray. Maybe they draft someone. Maybe they find the next FA project. Maybe they do a minor trade for a failed starter. If Murray doesn't work out whoever is responsible for the QB decisions going into the 2025 season does not look good. I would be interested to know what McCarthy's trade value was that season. Maybe it wasn't very high my guess was it wasn't as high as some people suggested even with the meh QB class in that draft. I would have signed Sam Darnold to the deal he signed with Seattle and worked from there. I wanted McCarthy to succeed here but oh well.
I was fine them bringing in Murray but I'm also not long term on him. You need to trick up the offense too much to make him effective. He's just too short and not effective from the pocket and thats what KOC wants to do most. It's like oil and water. He'll do some tricking up, but not all the way like needed to maximize the QB's strengths and weaknesses.
That is why I thought eventually Kyler either stinks it up or gets hurt and we see JJ get his chance for a resurgence (but not as QB3). But alas that never happened.
I'm going to hope for Justin Herbert, he'd be a KOC type of QB and we should have went with Kirky boy instead knowing how things played out with JJ. Kirk could have come back and the offense would be much better.
I think bottom line I'd be pretty shocked if either option happens, KOC goes all in on Kyler or Kyler becomes a good KOC pocket QB. I just don't think either is going to happen.
You have to keep in mind he was basically a Rook and IDK, considering how pathetic the passing offense has been so far, it couldn't be any worse with JJ coming in. I really thought that was a very possible outcome and my preferred one. That JJ comes in to save the day at some point this year (more so before I heard he was demoted to 3rd string that is), the team and fanbase rallies behind him and we got our starter for the next decade as he makes strides getting better each season.
Now going into next year we got no QB. Maybe we can trade for Herbert? IDK, this QB carousel sucks. After seeing Kyler and Wentz, sure small sample size I suppose, but they aint it.
I also thought that maybe there was a chance McCarthy still had a chance to come in and do something. Wentz won the 2nd QB spot and has the experience too. The Vikings weren't really losing anything by just keeping McCarthy and he still was young so why not? The thing was if they didn't think he was gonna help them this year...he was basically only a year away from FA and they would have to decide whether to pay him.
There was a tweet today that had the worst QBs the last how er many games. McCarthy was bad but Maye wasn't a whole lot better. I'm sure Maye will put it back together in some way but wow he has been pretty bad and idk what reason or excuse he has. McCarthy was a rookie with a horrendous oline but has the offensive players around him. Maye was a MVP candidate last year. He shouldn't be dropping off this bad.
Let's see 2-4 or so games of the QB play and this offense. Maybe we learn the Bucs are a really good defensive team so that's something to keep in mind. Maybe it all starts coming together. Josh Oliver being out potentially the rest of the season isn't going to help although of course every team has injuries.
As for the QB carousel...ideally they land on someone for a few years. Maybe that will be Murray. Maybe they draft someone. Maybe they find the next FA project. Maybe they do a minor trade for a failed starter. If Murray doesn't work out whoever is responsible for the QB decisions going into the 2025 season does not look good. I would be interested to know what McCarthy's trade value was that season. Maybe it wasn't very high my guess was it wasn't as high as some people suggested even with the meh QB class in that draft. I would have signed Sam Darnold to the deal he signed with Seattle and worked from there. I wanted McCarthy to succeed here but oh well.
I was fine them bringing in Murray but I'm also not long term on him. You need to trick up the offense too much to make him effective. He's just too short and not effective from the pocket and thats what KOC wants to do most. It's like oil and water. He'll do some tricking up, but not all the way like needed to maximize the QB's strengths and weaknesses.
That is why I thought eventually Kyler either stinks it up or gets hurt and we see JJ get his chance for a resurgence (but not as QB3). But alas that never happened.
I'm going to hope for Justin Herbert, he'd be a KOC type of QB and we should have went with Kirky boy instead knowing how things played out with JJ. Kirk could have come back and the offense would be much better.
I think bottom line I'd be pretty shocked if either option happens, KOC goes all in on Kyler or Kyler becomes a good KOC pocket QB. I just don't think either is going to happen.
Cousins under KOC was always doing rollouts etc. I don't see KOC as a guy that wants his QB just standing in the pocket. He has been moving towards mobile QBs the past few years. Remember KOC was a very athletic guy coming out of college he wasn't just a pocket passer himself.
I also thought that maybe there was a chance McCarthy still had a chance to come in and do something. Wentz won the 2nd QB spot and has the experience too. The Vikings weren't really losing anything by just keeping McCarthy and he still was young so why not? The thing was if they didn't think he was gonna help them this year...he was basically only a year away from FA and they would have to decide whether to pay him.
There was a tweet today that had the worst QBs the last how er many games. McCarthy was bad but Maye wasn't a whole lot better. I'm sure Maye will put it back together in some way but wow he has been pretty bad and idk what reason or excuse he has. McCarthy was a rookie with a horrendous oline but has the offensive players around him. Maye was a MVP candidate last year. He shouldn't be dropping off this bad.
Let's see 2-4 or so games of the QB play and this offense. Maybe we learn the Bucs are a really good defensive team so that's something to keep in mind. Maybe it all starts coming together. Josh Oliver being out potentially the rest of the season isn't going to help although of course every team has injuries.
As for the QB carousel...ideally they land on someone for a few years. Maybe that will be Murray. Maybe they draft someone. Maybe they find the next FA project. Maybe they do a minor trade for a failed starter. If Murray doesn't work out whoever is responsible for the QB decisions going into the 2025 season does not look good. I would be interested to know what McCarthy's trade value was that season. Maybe it wasn't very high my guess was it wasn't as high as some people suggested even with the meh QB class in that draft. I would have signed Sam Darnold to the deal he signed with Seattle and worked from there. I wanted McCarthy to succeed here but oh well.
I was fine them bringing in Murray but I'm also not long term on him. You need to trick up the offense too much to make him effective. He's just too short and not effective from the pocket and thats what KOC wants to do most. It's like oil and water. He'll do some tricking up, but not all the way like needed to maximize the QB's strengths and weaknesses.
That is why I thought eventually Kyler either stinks it up or gets hurt and we see JJ get his chance for a resurgence (but not as QB3). But alas that never happened.
I'm going to hope for Justin Herbert, he'd be a KOC type of QB and we should have went with Kirky boy instead knowing how things played out with JJ. Kirk could have come back and the offense would be much better.
I think bottom line I'd be pretty shocked if either option happens, KOC goes all in on Kyler or Kyler becomes a good KOC pocket QB. I just don't think either is going to happen.
Cousins under KOC was always doing rollouts etc. I don't see KOC as a guy that wants his QB just standing in the pocket. He has been moving towards mobile QBs the past few years. Remember KOC was a very athletic guy coming out of college he wasn't just a pocket passer himself.
Your right and of course it's not 100%, but in general KOC likes long developing routes and chucking the ball 25 yards down field and primarily from the pocket. That is what he wants to do most, it's what he calls. Even a lot of his play designs seem to not even have a hot route or check down option. That has bugged me a lot in the past. Sure thats maybe fine if you have a good or great powerful armed QB, but we don't.
KOC's primary way/hope of attack is downfield and thats Kylers biggest weakness, that is the issue I see. Thats why my secret hope was that JJ would make some progress, come in at some point to retake the job. It did look like he struggled though preseason/training camp reports to make a significant leap. So IDK, I think we just got stuck with what we got. A bad deal.
I was fine them bringing in Murray but I'm also not long term on him. You need to trick up the offense too much to make him effective. He's just too short and not effective from the pocket and thats what KOC wants to do most. It's like oil and water. He'll do some tricking up, but not all the way like needed to maximize the QB's strengths and weaknesses.
That is why I thought eventually Kyler either stinks it up or gets hurt and we see JJ get his chance for a resurgence (but not as QB3). But alas that never happened.
I'm going to hope for Justin Herbert, he'd be a KOC type of QB and we should have went with Kirky boy instead knowing how things played out with JJ. Kirk could have come back and the offense would be much better.
I think bottom line I'd be pretty shocked if either option happens, KOC goes all in on Kyler or Kyler becomes a good KOC pocket QB. I just don't think either is going to happen.
Cousins under KOC was always doing rollouts etc. I don't see KOC as a guy that wants his QB just standing in the pocket. He has been moving towards mobile QBs the past few years. Remember KOC was a very athletic guy coming out of college he wasn't just a pocket passer himself.
Your right and of course it's not 100%, but in general KOC likes long developing routes and chucking the ball 25 yards down field and primarily from the pocket. That is what he wants to do most, it's what he calls. Even a lot of his play designs seem to not even have a hot route or check down option. That has bugged me a lot in the past. Sure thats maybe fine if you have a good or great powerful armed QB, but we don't.
KOC's primary way/hope of attack is downfield and thats Kylers biggest weakness, that is the issue I see. Thats why my secret hope was that JJ would make some progress, come in at some point to retake the job. It did look like he struggled though preseason/training camp reports to make a significant leap. So IDK, I think we just got stuck with what we got. A bad deal.
I'm far from a football or offensive/QB guru. I'll say that I was skeptical of the various reports about McCarthy struggling and all the noise about him getting traded but at this point it look like that was more right than not. Obviously there is a chance the Vikings screwed up by moving on from him but unless Teasley had a very different take on McCarthy (which is possible) it seems to me that they felt like he just wasn't it combined with him not being able to stay healthy. Might as well cut bait and get something which they do have a decent amount of draft capitol for next year. Anyway I need to see Murray and this offense for a few more weeks to make any judgement. It seems to me KOC often utilized the positives various guys had and that included throwing the ball down the field. The numbers don't look that different but it seemed like. Cousins got more and more Comfortable with jacking the ball down field and just had a better command of the offense in general than he had before. Of course that might not be saying much since he was always having a new OC every year. Let's keep in mind what we have seen from Murray is still a fairly small sample. Case Keenum just put up a really nice game for the Bears. I don't think anyone is like well let's ride him to the Superbowl...they are happy it happened and hope he can play reasonably well till other QBs are healthy. I'm just gonna take this season and go from there I'm not gonna worry about 2027 and the following seasons. So much can happen in the next few months good or bad. It seems like the Vikings have found some real talent especially on the defensive side of the ball and I'd guess that sets them up for having some ability to pay some players in 2027 and beyond.
Cousins under KOC was always doing rollouts etc. I don't see KOC as a guy that wants his QB just standing in the pocket. He has been moving towards mobile QBs the past few years. Remember KOC was a very athletic guy coming out of college he wasn't just a pocket passer himself.
Your right and of course it's not 100%, but in general KOC likes long developing routes and chucking the ball 25 yards down field and primarily from the pocket. That is what he wants to do most, it's what he calls. Even a lot of his play designs seem to not even have a hot route or check down option. That has bugged me a lot in the past. Sure thats maybe fine if you have a good or great powerful armed QB, but we don't.
KOC's primary way/hope of attack is downfield and thats Kylers biggest weakness, that is the issue I see. Thats why my secret hope was that JJ would make some progress, come in at some point to retake the job. It did look like he struggled though preseason/training camp reports to make a significant leap. So IDK, I think we just got stuck with what we got. A bad deal.
I'm far from a football or offensive/QB guru. I'll say that I was skeptical of the various reports about McCarthy struggling and all the noise about him getting traded but at this point it look like that was more right than not. Obviously there is a chance the Vikings screwed up by moving on from him but unless Teasley had a very different take on McCarthy (which is possible) it seems to me that they felt like he just wasn't it combined with him not being able to stay healthy. Might as well cut bait and get something which they do have a decent amount of draft capitol for next year. Anyway I need to see Murray and this offense for a few more weeks to make any judgement. It seems to me KOC often utilized the positives various guys had and that included throwing the ball down the field. The numbers don't look that different but it seemed like. Cousins got more and more Comfortable with jacking the ball down field and just had a better command of the offense in general than he had before. Of course that might not be saying much since he was always having a new OC every year. Let's keep in mind what we have seen from Murray is still a fairly small sample. Case Keenum just put up a really nice game for the Bears. I don't think anyone is like well let's ride him to the Superbowl...they are happy it happened and hope he can play reasonably well till other QBs are healthy. I'm just gonna take this season and go from there I'm not gonna worry about 2027 and the following seasons. So much can happen in the next few months good or bad. It seems like the Vikings have found some real talent especially on the defensive side of the ball and I'd guess that sets them up for having some ability to pay some players in 2027 and beyond.
The issue really isn't just this game though for Kyler. The reports were he was struggling in camp also, so this isn't just 1 bad game from him. It's a continuation of all offseason that is the problem.
I mean the guy he barely beat out in camp they traded for a 5th rounder. Doesn't say much and keep in mind, the Cards paid him to go away too.
I think the safe bet is that Kyler continues to struggle overall rather then lighting it up.
I kind of hate being too negative but with all the issues between KOCs probable inability in optimizing Kyler, Kylers struggles throughout the offseason and now into the season, things don't look good for the offense. It's like we got this elite defense but our offense is going to stop us from reaching the ultimate goal.
Even if we could have just ran the ball better, not even taking into account Kylers struggles. I could see a path to being a contender. But that hasn't been good enough either. Our Oline has been OK but our backs are old, not good enough, young and sketchy and also often injured.
A great RB would really help this team. But we aint got that either.
