Kyler

[Monster]

One problem with going all in is that it feels like the Vikings are one offensive line injury away from the offense kinda falling apart. Of course idk what all in really is in terms of giving up draft picks for a QB and RB but yeah. I don't know what's actually reasonable to expect from the offense even if they don't have to be very good with this defense. We should also consider whether the defense can keep up being this good the rest of the season. That's not an absolute guarantee.

[Monster]

It would be kinda funny if we traded Murray to the Ravens.

[Wolvesfan21]

I think you have to turn to Wentz and IDK about Taylor. If the price is right then sure (fair draft comp). The issue is how much we'd have to trade to get him and with how much mileage and pay he makes in the next couple years I'm a bit meh on the idea overall. I might 1st try and trade for a cheaper back if it were up to me. Save more draft picks and save money on the cap. Then look to draft a guy next draft.

I just think we might be in a bad place cap and pick wise with JT.

I think for me to be all in on JT I need Kirk at the QB spot. Trade the farm for both and go for it all. I'm pretty skeptical even with JT that Kyler or Wentz will do enough to make us legit contenders.

I do think we have no option but to try Wentz now though. He'll at least try and get the WR's involved which will give our offense a higher upside. The issue of course is, he tends to be erratic at times too. But he will make plays. Where Kyler throws the ball to no one a lot. Wentz will give JJ and others a chance to get the ball. Tighter window throws too.

Not saying Wentz is great, but it's who we got now.

I'm not really all the read up on the cap situation or the draft picks, so I'm coming in cold on that end, but you don't get a lot of seasons where you have defense playing like this. If there is an opportunity to get this offense some really life than you shouldn't be overly concerned about the long term implications. Obviously you have to consider those things, but something serious has to be done to help the offense. Wentz ain't gonna be it, and a trade for QB is super unlikely and quite possibly not that helpful.

It's easy to blame the play caller and he's certainly capable, but he doesn't have a stable play than can be reliably executed cause even the running backs are woefully under preforming. Taking a swing on a RB isn't necessarily a great move, but I think it's the best one in front of them

Multiple times Murray can't even hit a guy 10 yards down the field wide open near the sideline and no olineman are in his way on those throws. It's not like he is missing tight window throws in those instances. Sometimes he is closer to throwing the ball into the turf than completing it. Meanwhile he scrambles and then you are like oh man he escaped the pocket and he is gonna make some awesome throw and it sails out of bounds etc. Probably one thing that's saving Murray and maybe even the Vikings locker room is Murray seems like a low key dude isn't about flash or whatever so guys probably don't hate his guts.

KOC has to take some blame too. He made Josh Dobbs look better than Murray the first few quarters Dobbs was here and Dobbs was here for a few hours before that. I agree I think KOC is a good head coach and has done some good things here. I do think the run game has been better and they have leaned into it more but the passing game is bad and with the oline shored up there just isn't any excuses anymore. I haven't turned on a QB like this since Ponder got hurt and Matt Cassel came in and took one snap and I was like oh...Ponder definitely sucks.

It's a multiplier effect for me also. We got one of the top 5-ish? pass catching trios in the league with Hock, Addison and JJ and not only that isn't Hock and Addison FA's, maybe next year? I can't remember. Anyways it's not like these guys are not getting open by NFL standards, they're great players.

That AND we've played crap defenses. If you can't score against Detroit or Miami, then just forget it. You're done.

I see no reason how we can keep playing Murray at this point. I'll take the risk that Wentz throws a game or two away, and he'll probably do it. But at the same time, we need the potential to score more points. Kyler can't do it. We just need the chance to score 27 if need be. Especially the top teams. We had an easy schedule to start 6-0. The tough teams will make us play offense.

[Wolvesfan21]

It would be kinda funny if we traded Murray to the Ravens.

Thatd be PERFECT

[Wolvesfan21]

One problem with going all in is that it feels like the Vikings are one offensive line injury away from the offense kinda falling apart. Of course idk what all in really is in terms of giving up draft picks for a QB and RB but yeah. I don't know what's actually reasonable to expect from the offense even if they don't have to be very good with this defense. We should also consider whether the defense can keep up being this good the rest of the season. That's not an absolute guarantee.

Oh no kidding it would be risky for sure, but then when have you seen a defense play like this and I do also question. Will teams figure them out?

The Lions got an elite back and Oline, not everyone has that, but they are probably the most beatable by an elite running attack.

I think I would pull the trigger one way or another. At minimum Wentz is starting. At max we trade a bunch of picks for Chainz and JT.

[Monster]

One problem with going all in is that it feels like the Vikings are one offensive line injury away from the offense kinda falling apart. Of course idk what all in really is in terms of giving up draft picks for a QB and RB but yeah. I don't know what's actually reasonable to expect from the offense even if they don't have to be very good with this defense. We should also consider whether the defense can keep up being this good the rest of the season. That's not an absolute guarantee.

Oh no kidding it would be risky for sure, but then when have you seen a defense play like this and I do also question. Will teams figure them out?

The Lions got an elite back and Oline, not everyone has that, but they are probably the most beatable by an elite running attack.

I think I would pull the trigger one way or another. At minimum Wentz is starting. At max we trade a bunch of picks for Chainz and JT.

Sam Bradford comes to mind when thinking about going all in. It's not the same or whatever but I don't know how much draft capital I'm willing to dump to try and contend especially on a QB. If we have to do that what the hell is KOC here for? We are supposed to be able to put forth less resources at that position because he is here. A 3rd plus a couple later round picks for Cousins? Sure but is that enough for the Raiders to deal him? Are we sure he would he even actually want to leave there to jump into another team even if there is familiarity? If it doesn't work that costs him money in the off-season.

[Monster]

I'm not really all the read up on the cap situation or the draft picks, so I'm coming in cold on that end, but you don't get a lot of seasons where you have defense playing like this. If there is an opportunity to get this offense some really life than you shouldn't be overly concerned about the long term implications. Obviously you have to consider those things, but something serious has to be done to help the offense. Wentz ain't gonna be it, and a trade for QB is super unlikely and quite possibly not that helpful.

It's easy to blame the play caller and he's certainly capable, but he doesn't have a stable play than can be reliably executed cause even the running backs are woefully under preforming. Taking a swing on a RB isn't necessarily a great move, but I think it's the best one in front of them

Multiple times Murray can't even hit a guy 10 yards down the field wide open near the sideline and no olineman are in his way on those throws. It's not like he is missing tight window throws in those instances. Sometimes he is closer to throwing the ball into the turf than completing it. Meanwhile he scrambles and then you are like oh man he escaped the pocket and he is gonna make some awesome throw and it sails out of bounds etc. Probably one thing that's saving Murray and maybe even the Vikings locker room is Murray seems like a low key dude isn't about flash or whatever so guys probably don't hate his guts.

KOC has to take some blame too. He made Josh Dobbs look better than Murray the first few quarters Dobbs was here and Dobbs was here for a few hours before that. I agree I think KOC is a good head coach and has done some good things here. I do think the run game has been better and they have leaned into it more but the passing game is bad and with the oline shored up there just isn't any excuses anymore. I haven't turned on a QB like this since Ponder got hurt and Matt Cassel came in and took one snap and I was like oh...Ponder definitely sucks.

It's a multiplier effect for me also. We got one of the top 5-ish? pass catching trios in the league with Hock, Addison and JJ and not only that isn't Hock and Addison FA's, maybe next year? I can't remember. Anyways it's not like these guys are not getting open by NFL standards, they're great players.

That AND we've played crap defenses. If you can't score against Detroit or Miami, then just forget it. You're done.

I see no reason how we can keep playing Murray at this point. I'll take the risk that Wentz throws a game or two away, and he'll probably do it. But at the same time, we need the potential to score more points. Kyler can't do it. We just need the chance to score 27 if need be. Especially the top teams. We had an easy schedule to start 6-0. The tough teams will make us play offense.

Starting NFL QBs that are pretty good throw a game or 2 away each season. That's fine it's gonna happen hopefully it's not in a game that really matters like the playoffs etc but still. Hell the last few playoffs Aaron Rodgers was in in Green Bay he wasn't good enough in a few games.

I'll add that in addition to the guys you listed it seems like every damn TE we throw out there looks good catching the ball. Jennings is a legit NFL WR and it seems like Felton and Price can be guys that can help out at times if you put them in the right positions. It feels like we may be on the verge of having some offensive guys that weren't top picks actually helping out the roster under KOC but now we have a QB that can't get the ball to anyone that isn't a TE. It's classic Vikings stuff. Lol

[Wolvesfan21]

One problem with going all in is that it feels like the Vikings are one offensive line injury away from the offense kinda falling apart. Of course idk what all in really is in terms of giving up draft picks for a QB and RB but yeah. I don't know what's actually reasonable to expect from the offense even if they don't have to be very good with this defense. We should also consider whether the defense can keep up being this good the rest of the season. That's not an absolute guarantee.

Oh no kidding it would be risky for sure, but then when have you seen a defense play like this and I do also question. Will teams figure them out?

The Lions got an elite back and Oline, not everyone has that, but they are probably the most beatable by an elite running attack.

I think I would pull the trigger one way or another. At minimum Wentz is starting. At max we trade a bunch of picks for Chainz and JT.

Sam Bradford comes to mind when thinking about going all in. It's not the same or whatever but I don't know how much draft capital I'm willing to dump to try and contend especially on a QB. If we have to do that what the hell is KOC here for? We are supposed to be able to put forth less resources at that position because he is here. A 3rd plus a couple later round picks for Cousins? Sure but is that enough for the Raiders to deal him? Are we sure he would he even actually want to leave there to jump into another team even if there is familiarity? If it doesn't work that costs him money in the off-season.

That was an all in type of move but also a dumb one. Bradford was extremely injury prone and never had a winning record in any year of his career. He was not a good QB. Good thrower, but a statue who got hurt often.

I dont think the Raiders want to deal Kirk though, that is a big issue.

[Wolvesfan21]

Multiple times Murray can't even hit a guy 10 yards down the field wide open near the sideline and no olineman are in his way on those throws. It's not like he is missing tight window throws in those instances. Sometimes he is closer to throwing the ball into the turf than completing it. Meanwhile he scrambles and then you are like oh man he escaped the pocket and he is gonna make some awesome throw and it sails out of bounds etc. Probably one thing that's saving Murray and maybe even the Vikings locker room is Murray seems like a low key dude isn't about flash or whatever so guys probably don't hate his guts.

KOC has to take some blame too. He made Josh Dobbs look better than Murray the first few quarters Dobbs was here and Dobbs was here for a few hours before that. I agree I think KOC is a good head coach and has done some good things here. I do think the run game has been better and they have leaned into it more but the passing game is bad and with the oline shored up there just isn't any excuses anymore. I haven't turned on a QB like this since Ponder got hurt and Matt Cassel came in and took one snap and I was like oh...Ponder definitely sucks.

It's a multiplier effect for me also. We got one of the top 5-ish? pass catching trios in the league with Hock, Addison and JJ and not only that isn't Hock and Addison FA's, maybe next year? I can't remember. Anyways it's not like these guys are not getting open by NFL standards, they're great players.

That AND we've played crap defenses. If you can't score against Detroit or Miami, then just forget it. You're done.

I see no reason how we can keep playing Murray at this point. I'll take the risk that Wentz throws a game or two away, and he'll probably do it. But at the same time, we need the potential to score more points. Kyler can't do it. We just need the chance to score 27 if need be. Especially the top teams. We had an easy schedule to start 6-0. The tough teams will make us play offense.

Starting NFL QBs that are pretty good throw a game or 2 away each season. That's fine it's gonna happen hopefully it's not in a game that really matters like the playoffs etc but still. Hell the last few playoffs Aaron Rodgers was in in Green Bay he wasn't good enough in a few games.

I'll add that in addition to the guys you listed it seems like every damn TE we throw out there looks good catching the ball. Jennings is a legit NFL WR and it seems like Felton and Price can be guys that can help out at times if you put them in the right positions. It feels like we may be on the verge of having some offensive guys that weren't top picks actually helping out the roster under KOC but now we have a QB that can't get the ball to anyone that isn't a TE. It's classic Vikings stuff. Lol

I don't 100% blame Kyler though either, sure he in his career cannot throw in that 10-25 yard range to WR's. We knew that going in. So it was up to KOC to find plays that works for Kyler and the WR's.

I think our WR strengths though are running precise longer routes with timing, anticipation, etc.. A slant isn't their strength either. They are not big body physical guys.

So not only does Kyler struggle with what KOC likes, the WR's struggle (relatively to their strengths) at what Kyler likes (those shorter throws).

I did see a stat that Kyler is playing his worst ball in his career though (EPA or whatever). It's obviously been a disaster. Worse then anything AZ had!!! I think you have to blame KOC and Kyler in the end though.