Vance "Last Chance" Worley

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

What the hell do we do with this guy? He's only 26, but man was it tough to watch him on the bump for Minnesota last year. 10 starts last year and he posted a 7.21 ERA with a WHIP close to 2! We can't trade him for anything valuable after a year like that. He's not reliable enough to be in the starting rotation. He probably shouldn't continue to be used in the minors as I think it's not in the best interest in developing younger arms. What can we do?

I actually think if Worley bought into it mentally, he'd be a really good relief pitcher. He does have a live arm and from my observations last year, Worley just couldn't get past the first three innings when he started. Whenever he settled down in the middle innings, he actually looked pretty decent. Kind of reminds me of Glen Perkins in a way. Caution: I'm not saying Worley is on Perkins talent level. Last two years Perkins was a starter, he posted ERAs of 5.89 and 4.41.

So what do you guys think? I think it's something that for sure should be tried during Spring Training at least. He'll never be a quality starter in this league, in my opinion. It's better to try all options before he walks/gets cut and someone smart enough tries him as a reliever.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Worley is a mystery to me, Cam. He was so effective as a starter two years ago that I hate to give up on him. But you're right...he was painful to watch last year, and was only okay after he was demoted.

I don't agree that he has a live arm...he's never going to overpower anyone. He doesn't top 92 on his fast ball, and only has an average breaking ball. I read an interesting article a while back (written after his great year) that referred to him as a classic pitch to contact pitcher. In fact, he had something like the third or fourth worst swinging strike ratio of all starting pitchers. Yet despite this stat, he has always been an above average strikeout pitcher. How can you be both a strikeout guy and a pitch to contact guy? Simple: in 2011, only Trevor Cahill threw a higher percentage of pitches that were taken for strikes. This implies deception...the ball doesn't look like a strike so the batter takes, but it is a strike.

So, as I said, Worley doesn't fit any mold. But to me, a guy with only an average fastball and a very low swinging strike rate projects to be a back end starter rather than a reliever.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Worley is a mystery to me, Cam. He was so effective as a starter two years ago that I hate to give up on him. But you're right...he was painful to watch last year, and was only okay after he was demoted.

I don't agree that he has a live arm...he's never going to overpower anyone. He doesn't top 92 on his fast ball, and only has an average breaking ball. I read an interesting article a while back (written after his great year) that referred to him as a classic pitch to contact pitcher. In fact, he had something like the third or fourth worst swinging strike ratio of all starting pitchers. Yet despite this stat, he has always been an above average strikeout pitcher. How can you be both a strikeout guy and a pitch to contact guy? Simple: in 2011, only Trevor Cahill threw a higher percentage of pitches that were taken for strikes. This implies deception...the ball doesn't look like a strike so the batter takes, but it is a strike.

So, as I said, Worley doesn't fit any mold. But to me, a guy with only an average fastball and a very low swinging strike rate projects to be a back end starter rather than a reliever.

You make a lot of really good points. Specifically the third worst swinging strike ratio. I didn't know that, though it doesn't surprise me. Let's be hypothetical. If you were Terry Ryan or Gardy, what would you do with Worley?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Good question, cam. I think they need to see how he throws in spring training. If his command is like it was last year (the 2 WHIP) he will earn a ticket to Rochester. I agree with you that we don't want him getting in the way of a prospect, but I think our hot prospects are at least a year away from AAA. But if he looks anything like he did three years ago, they need to put him in the rotation. This assumes we don't add a couple starters in free agency, which is looking more likely as I see the price tag marginal guys are commanding.

Not great answers, but I'm pretty comfortable with our bullpen, so I want to see if he can rediscover the magic as a starter.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Good question, cam. I think they need to see how he throws in spring training. If his command is like it was last year (the 2 WHIP) he will earn a ticket to Rochester. I agree with you that we don't want him getting in the way of a prospect, but I think our hot prospects are at least a year away from AAA. But if he looks anything like he did three years ago, they need to put him in the rotation. This assumes we don't add a couple starters in free agency, which is looking more likely as I see the price tag marginal guys are commanding.

Not great answers, but I'm pretty comfortable with our bullpen, so I want to see if he can rediscover the magic as a starter.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

The thing that scares me about Worley (and to a certain extent Oliveros) is after he was sent to Rochester there didn't seem any urgency to get back to the Twins. Most guys who have spent a whole year in the show would chew off their glove hand to get back.

It seems like an odd subject to bring up this time of year. He is going to get one more crack this year, and if it doesn't work, either as a starter or reliever, he'll probably be out of baseball.