Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:I look at the draft as more of a longer-term play. It's the feeder system to keep the franchise healthy and to provide a hedge against unforeseen events like injuries or stalled development of our current young guys. it's important to keep a steady infusion of young talent into the organization through smart use of the draft. And as we've seen lately, you don't necessarily have to wait long for draft picks to be difference makers. Just look at Tyrese Maxey and Desmond Bane in their second seasons.

When it comes to filling the Wolves immediate need for a rebounding big to start next to KAT, we definitely have the assets to get that player this offseason without trading our #19 or #40 picks. We'll be $17 million under the luxury tax threshold once the team relinquishes its cap holds on Okogie and Layman even if we re-sign Prince for $10 million. We will have the full MLE under which the Wolves can offer a contract that starts at around $10M in the first year. We also have some valuable trade assets like Beasley and Naz Reid. We could add two of our three second-round picks to a deal as additional sweetener. All of that should be more than enough to add a quality rebounding big as an upgrade over Vanderbilt. By upgrading our starting big with one move, we would simultaneously improve our depth with Vanderbilt as a rebounding energy guy off the bench. We also have the full BAE, which starts at around $4M. That's enough to add a quality vet for more depth.

Meanwhile, the Wolves should use this draft to land one or two talented players.

I don't think it was the first time he has said this but in his conversation with Wolfson Gupta said he looks at the draft as more of a future play than something to fill a need. That's not exactly revolutionary but I thought I would mention that he said it. I think if you have a clear hole to fill then maybe you try to fill it but even though the Wolves do need to fix a player next to Towns I think they can Jay go BOA because they could potentially need players at just about any position or get a big time shooter. I did notice the other day that Nowell's catch and shoot numbers this year were very good. If that's for real his value offensively goes up.

I think most of us are on the same page in viewing draft picks as longer-term investments who should not be expected to contribute significantly right away. However, there's an increasing body of evidence that draft picks, including those in the bottom two-thirds of the 1st round, can help a lot by their second or third season. The most recent example of that is Grant Williams who, in his 3rd season after being selected at #22 in 2019, scored 27 points last night in game 7 against last year's champion Milwaukee Bucks. He didn't put up stellar numbers during the regular season by any stretch, but he played in 77 games and averaged nearly 25 minutes per game this season.

Grant Williams joins an impressive list of 3rd-season players from the bottom two-thirds of the 2019 draft, including:

Cam Johnson #11
PJ Washington #12
Tyler Herro #13
Matisse Thybulle #20
Brandon Clarke #21
Jordan Poole #28

I'd add a few 2019 2nd-round picks to that list as impressive productive 3rd-season players, including:

Nic Claxton #31
Daniel Gafford #38
Eric Paschall #41
Jaylen Nowell #43
Terrance Mann #48

There are some others I haven't listed who have performed like NBA players and who could become very good, including #30 Kevin Porter Jr. and Goga Bitadze.

And here's my list of players from the 2020 draft who were significant rotation contributors to their respective teams in only their second seasons:

Devin Vassell #11
Tyrese Haliburton #12
Cole Anthony #15
Isaiah Steward #16
Saddiq Bey #19
Precious Achiuwa #20
Tyrese Maxey #21
Immanuel Quickley #25
Jaden McDaniels #28
Desmond Bane #30

I probably should have added Payton Pritchard to this list after his 14 point performance last night in game 7. With or without Pritchard, at least half of the bottom 20 in the 2020 draft have already become significant rotation contributors in only their second seasons and some have become starters. This doesn't mean the Wolves should look to this year's draft to fill holes for next season. However, it does tell us that it would be a mistake to dismiss the possibility that a pick at #19 or even at #40 could contribute significantly to the team's success within a year or two if not immediately. Note also that anyone we draft this year will be roughly the same age as our most talented current player, Anthony Edwards. And by the time the guy we draft is in his third season, our best player, KAT, will still be only 28.

That's why I'm pretty adamant that the Wolves should keep their #19 pick and possibly package their 2nd-round picks for another low 1st rounder or to move up from #19. In the alternative, I like the idea of using a couple of our three 2nd-round picks on international players who can be stashed overseas for a year or two.

We have enough traceable players with value, luxury tax room and salary cap exceptions to fill holes though trades and/or free agency without giving up any of our picks.

lipoli390 wrote:I think most of us are on the same page in viewing draft picks as longer-term investments who should not be expected to contribute significantly right away. However, there's an increasing body of evidence that draft picks, including those in the bottom two-thirds of the 1st round, can help a lot by their second or third season. The most recent example of that is Grant Williams who, in his 3rd season after being selected at #22 in 2019, scored 27 points last night in game 7 against last year's champion Milwaukee Bucks. He didn't put up stellar numbers during the regular season by any stretch, but he played in 77 games and averaged nearly 25 minutes per game this season.

Grant Williams joins an impressive list of 3rd-season players from the bottom two-thirds of the 2019 draft, including:

Cam Johnson #11
PJ Washington #12
Tyler Herro #13
Matisse Thybulle #20
Brandon Clarke #21
Jordan Poole #28

I'd add a few 2019 2nd-round picks to that list as impressive productive 3rd-season players, including:

Nic Claxton #31
Daniel Gafford #38
Eric Paschall #41
Jaylen Nowell #43
Terrance Mann #48

There are some others I haven't listed who have performed like NBA players and who could become very good, including #30 Kevin Porter Jr. and Goga Bitadze.

And here's my list of players from the 2020 draft who were significant rotation contributors to their respective teams in only their second seasons:

Devin Vassell #11
Tyrese Haliburton #12
Cole Anthony #15
Isaiah Steward #16
Saddiq Bey #19
Precious Achiuwa #20
Tyrese Maxey #21
Immanuel Quickley #25
Jaden McDaniels #28
Desmond Bane #30

I probably should have added Payton Pritchard to this list after his 14 point performance last night in game 7. With or without Pritchard, at least half of the bottom 20 in the 2020 draft have already become significant rotation contributors in only their second seasons and some have become starters. This doesn't mean the Wolves should look to this year's draft to fill holes for next season. However, it does tell us that it would be a mistake to dismiss the possibility that a pick at #19 or even at #40 could contribute significantly to the team's success within a year or two if not immediately. Note also that anyone we draft this year will be roughly the same age as our most talented current player, Anthony Edwards. And by the time the guy we draft is in his third season, our best player, KAT, will still be only 28.

That's why I'm pretty adamant that the Wolves should keep their #19 pick and possibly package their 2nd-round picks for another low 1st rounder or to move up from #19. In the alternative, I like the idea of using a couple of our three 2nd-round picks on international players who can be stashed overseas for a year or two.

We have enough traceable players with value, luxury tax room and salary cap exceptions to fill holes though trades and/or free agency without giving up any of our picks.

Good post Lip I agree and I'll add some more players to back up what you have said.

For the 2020 draft I think players you could add to that list are Keldon Johnson, Xavier Tillman and Tre Jones.

A year from now there will probably be some undrafted players to add to the list from 2020 but it's maybe a bit to early for some of those guys to have emerged.

2019 draft Keldon Johnson and Lou Dort undrafted almost missed him looking at the lists. He is playing on a bad team but I think it's clear he is likely at least a worthwhile NBA rotation guy.

Other players worth mentioning in 2019 are Nasir Little, Dean Wade, the Martin brothers, Amir Coffey and maybe even Jalen McDaniels. Some of those guys went undrafted. If Talen Horton Tucker wasn't getting payed a relatively hefty salary I think he would maybe still be viewed more positively.

Young players on bad teams I think good teams would like to have and may be able to contribute.

2019 Garrison Mathews, Isaiah Roby and Darius Brazley

2020 Kenyon Martin Jr

Some of these players will end up turning out to just be guys or out of the league and not worth much some of them maybe because of injury. Still there are a lot of players on these lists that I think a number of teams would be happy to have acquired in the draft or signed to a deal after it was over. The Wolves have added some of these players themselves. They need to continue to have success there. I'm not expecting them to bat 1.000 (missed on Hagens as an undrafted 2-way deal and the jury is still out on Bolmaro) but they need to continue to have success at a reasonable rate. Wright looks like a reasonably promising 2-way player from last year's rookie class. Knight was a solid use of their other 2-way deal.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I think most of us are on the same page in viewing draft picks as longer-term investments who should not be expected to contribute significantly right away. However, there's an increasing body of evidence that draft picks, including those in the bottom two-thirds of the 1st round, can help a lot by their second or third season. The most recent example of that is Grant Williams who, in his 3rd season after being selected at #22 in 2019, scored 27 points last night in game 7 against last year's champion Milwaukee Bucks. He didn't put up stellar numbers during the regular season by any stretch, but he played in 77 games and averaged nearly 25 minutes per game this season.

Grant Williams joins an impressive list of 3rd-season players from the bottom two-thirds of the 2019 draft, including:

Cam Johnson #11
PJ Washington #12
Tyler Herro #13
Matisse Thybulle #20
Brandon Clarke #21
Jordan Poole #28

I'd add a few 2019 2nd-round picks to that list as impressive productive 3rd-season players, including:

Nic Claxton #31
Daniel Gafford #38
Eric Paschall #41
Jaylen Nowell #43
Terrance Mann #48

There are some others I haven't listed who have performed like NBA players and who could become very good, including #30 Kevin Porter Jr. and Goga Bitadze.

And here's my list of players from the 2020 draft who were significant rotation contributors to their respective teams in only their second seasons:

Devin Vassell #11
Tyrese Haliburton #12
Cole Anthony #15
Isaiah Steward #16
Saddiq Bey #19
Precious Achiuwa #20
Tyrese Maxey #21
Immanuel Quickley #25
Jaden McDaniels #28
Desmond Bane #30

I probably should have added Payton Pritchard to this list after his 14 point performance last night in game 7. With or without Pritchard, at least half of the bottom 20 in the 2020 draft have already become significant rotation contributors in only their second seasons and some have become starters. This doesn't mean the Wolves should look to this year's draft to fill holes for next season. However, it does tell us that it would be a mistake to dismiss the possibility that a pick at #19 or even at #40 could contribute significantly to the team's success within a year or two if not immediately. Note also that anyone we draft this year will be roughly the same age as our most talented current player, Anthony Edwards. And by the time the guy we draft is in his third season, our best player, KAT, will still be only 28.

That's why I'm pretty adamant that the Wolves should keep their #19 pick and possibly package their 2nd-round picks for another low 1st rounder or to move up from #19. In the alternative, I like the idea of using a couple of our three 2nd-round picks on international players who can be stashed overseas for a year or two.

We have enough traceable players with value, luxury tax room and salary cap exceptions to fill holes though trades and/or free agency without giving up any of our picks.

Good post Lip I agree and I'll add some more players to back up what you have said.

For the 2020 draft I think players you could add to that list are Keldon Johnson, Xavier Tillman and Tre Jones.

A year from now there will probably be some undrafted players to add to the list from 2020 but it's maybe a bit to early for some of those guys to have emerged.

2019 draft Keldon Johnson and Lou Dort undrafted almost missed him looking at the lists. He is playing on a bad team but I think it's clear he is likely at least a worthwhile NBA rotation guy.

Other players worth mentioning in 2019 are Nasir Little, Dean Wade, the Martin brothers, Amir Coffey and maybe even Jalen McDaniels. Some of those guys went undrafted. If Talen Horton Tucker wasn't getting payed a relatively hefty salary I think he would maybe still be viewed more positively.

Young players on bad teams I think good teams would like to have and may be able to contribute.

2019 Garrison Mathews, Isaiah Roby and Darius Brazley

2020 Kenyon Martin Jr

Some of these players will end up turning out to just be guys or out of the league and not worth much some of them maybe because of injury. Still there are a lot of players on these lists that I think a number of teams would be happy to have acquired in the draft or signed to a deal after it was over. The Wolves have added some of these players themselves. They need to continue to have success there. I'm not expecting them to bat 1.000 (missed on Hagens as an undrafted 2-way deal and the jury is still out on Bolmaro) but they need to continue to have success at a reasonable rate. Wright looks like a reasonably promising 2-way player from last year's rookie class. Knight was a solid use of their other 2-way deal.

Monster - I agree with you on Matthews, Roby, Brazley and Kenyon Martin Jr. I also agree that Wright looks promising. His G-League stats were impressive, and importantly, he showed he can hit from behind the NBA arc.

lipoli390 wrote:I look at the draft as more of a longer-term play. It's the feeder system to keep the franchise healthy and to provide a hedge against unforeseen events like injuries or stalled development of our current young guys. it's important to keep a steady infusion of young talent into the organization through smart use of the draft. And as we've seen lately, you don't necessarily have to wait long for draft picks to be difference makers. Just look at Tyrese Maxey and Desmond Bane in their second seasons.

Totally agree Lip, it's critical. I'm sure when Boston drafted Grant Williams #22 back in 2019, they weren't necessarily anticipating him playing a critical role in Game 7 against the reigning NBA champs!

Apparently Koloko shot really well during the 3 point drill.

WildWolf2813 wrote:Apparently Koloko shot really well during the 3 point drill.

Thanks for the info, Wild. Koloko is an interesting prospect. I've been watching a lot of videos of him. He looks long and mobile. But his shot has looked horrible in the videos I've seen - even his short range shots. I've seen a lot of terrible misses 2-feet from the basket. But he apparently didn't start playing basketball until age 15, so he has a lot of development ahead of him. It's good news that he's performing well in 3-point drills.

Didn't read all comments, but guy that may be looked at down the road as a "smart pick" is Liddell. I know he is on smallish side for PF, but he is productive. There are always a few of these dudes that slide because they are not "ideal PF size", but they are simply good ball players and carve out long careers. He is also a strong shot blocker to boot.

Would certainly be a guy to look at in round 1 considering he will be one of the most ready guys to contribute to immediate positive basketball play.

Hicks123 wrote:Didn't read all comments, but guy that may be looked at down the road as a "smart pick" is Liddell. I know he is on smallish side for PF, but he is productive. There are always a few of these dudes that slide because they are not "ideal PF size", but they are simply good ball players and carve out long careers. He is also a strong shot blocker to boot.

Would certainly be a guy to look at in round 1 considering he will be one of the most ready guys to contribute to immediate positive basketball play.

I think he has been brought up. And I don't consider him small by modern day 4 standards at all. What used to be known as 'tweener 3s/4s are now pure 4s. And his bulk and strength make up for some of his lack of sheer height. Look at how effective Draymond, Jae Crowder, and PJ Tucker all are playing the 4. All have really strong bases and can carve out space in the paint.

Hicks123 wrote:Didn't read all comments, but guy that may be looked at down the road as a "smart pick" is Liddell. I know he is on smallish side for PF, but he is productive. There are always a few of these dudes that slide because they are not "ideal PF size", but they are simply good ball players and carve out long careers. He is also a strong shot blocker to boot.

Would certainly be a guy to look at in round 1 considering he will be one of the most ready guys to contribute to immediate positive basketball play.

Yes, Liddell is among the guys I'm interested in for the Wolves at #19. I like his toughness.