Minnesota Sports Forum

I recognize Abe posted this poll to have some fun and fan the flames a little, but the dead-even 7-7 tie is quite telling to me and a good example of why basketball is such a great game to analyze and discuss. While the numbers Abe posts favor Rubio in almost every stat, it's easy to make a case for DLO as well as the better choice to be our starting PG (better scoring and higher 3-point %). I think the voting split is due to what voters on each side favor in a PG...a scoring PG with a pretty mid-range game but poor defense, or a more unorthodox pass-first but ugly-shooting PG with a consistently great assist to turnover ratio and who has had positive on/off numbers every year of his career (except his second year, when his numbers were neutral).

Two totally different PGs, and when 14 smart basketball guys are asked who they would prefer starting at PG for their team, the vote is right down the middle...that's why I love basketball discussions!

A tie? There are no ties here.

Q... where you at? We need somebody to break this thing wide open.

Just for giggles, I did a comparison of Rubio vs. Russell for their first six years in NBA. The games played is very similar and I used the all encompassing stats I personally rely on the most:

[table]
[tr]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Games[/th]
[th]PER[/th]
[th]Win Shares [/th]
[th]VORP[/th]
[th]+/-[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Rubio[/td]
[td]353[/td]
[td]16.2[/td]
[td]23.2[/td]
[td]8.9[/td]
[td]+6.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Russell[/td]
[td]337[/td]
[td]16.4[/td]
[td]8.8[/td]
[td]5.8[/td]
[td]-52.7[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

I voted Rubio because you get Rubio and another $10 million to put to a real power forward.

Thanks for forcing us to take a stand, Abe.

Both guys have serious flaws, but I voted for Rubio. If both guys were healthy and you were going into a playoff series tomorrow and had to pick one, I could see picking DLO. But when you consider the nature of their flaws and strengths as well as our needs, and most importantly, their contracts, there's little debate in my mind.

Rubio can't score much and doesn't put pressure on the rim. He's old and on the downswing of his career. On the other hand he brings stability to the offense, he's fairly efficient in a limited role he totally accepts, he's still a solid defender, and yes, he brings leadership. For 17 million this year and next, that's overpaid, but not egregiously so and at a decent length, so it's a moveable contract that could get you a bit of an asset (note the Rubio rumors out there). I'd prefer to trade him, but given that we have KAT, Ant, and Beasley as scorers who are not great defenders, he fits well with us, so if you want to keep him, he can provide some stability and fit in until his contract comes off the books.

DLO is relatively young and may yet improve. He's a proven scorer who can stretch the floor. On the other hand, he's a complete defensive sieve, he's a finesse player on a team that needs toughness, and he provides absolutely no leadership. He needs shots to be effective, when we already have three other guys (KAT, Ant, and Bealsey) who need shots too. He's due over 30 million for the next two years after this year, which is so overpaid that we'd very likely have to give up assets to move him. As long as he's on the roster at a salary around that level--which he'd presumably expect with an extension--his salary would lower our ceiling because he's so overpaid for what he brings. It would be very difficult to build a contender with such a bloated contract, especially one for a player who doesn't fit well with what we need.

For their careers, which player is better at their best? Now ask yourself which player is likely to get better between the two. The answer to both questions should be D'Angelo Russell.

Also, Minnesota hasn't seen D-Lo's best yet for several reasons. But Minnesota has seen Rubio's best and it wasn't good enough. Why on earth would you choose a known unsuccessful outcome? Choosing certain failure over the unknown isn't sensible to me in any situation.

Russell simply plays losing basketball. He doesn't make his teammates better. Add to the fact his contract. I take Rubio. He's a selfish player. He's atrocious at defense. And his career plus minus clearly shows this. But we will continue to hang onto hope that he will somehow magically turn a corner that will never be turned.

I was curious how both guys performed on the higher stage (playoffs). Here's what I found:
[table]
[tr]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Games[/th]
[th]PER[/th]
[th]Win Shares[/th]
[th]VORP[/th]
[th]+/-[/th]
[th]Record[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Rubio[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]16.5[/td]
[td]0.6[/td]
[td]0.5[/td]
[td]+18[/td]
[td]5-6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Russell[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]11.6[/td]
[td]-0.3[/td]
[td]0.0[/td]
[td]-89[/td]
[td]1-4[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]