This photo....

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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: This photo....

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The biggest reason for offense exploding is the hand check rule that came in 2004. Everything else has evolved from that. If you were around in the years proceeding this rule, you know how much it changed the game.



As a Steve Nash fanboy, I really liked the new rule.
As a slight PG far far from an NBA career, I also liked the nuances and art of the position that was being lost with big-butted galoots like Anthony Mason "running point" while facing the opposite basket.

I think we were fine with the no handcheck rule for quite a while.

In 2004, only two teams reached 100 points. 5 teams failed to reach 90 points.
In 2005, 6 teams reached 100 points, only one failed to reach 90.
In 2010, 18 of the 30 teams topped 100 points, with Phoenix leading the way at 110.
In 2015, 15 of the 30 teams topped 100 points, with GSW leading the way at 110.
In 2020, all 30 NBA teams reached 103 points, with 22 of them at 110 or more.

So... as you can see... perhaps the origins are there with the handcheck rule. But it's been in the last five years where the league scoring has gone batshit crazy off the charts compared to the previous 10 - 20 years.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: This photo....

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:The biggest reason for offense exploding is the hand check rule that came in 2004. Everything else has evolved from that. If you were around in the years proceeding this rule, you know how much it changed the game.



As a Steve Nash fanboy, I really liked the new rule.
As a slight PG far far from an NBA career, I also liked the nuances and art of the position that was being lost with big-butted galoots like Anthony Mason "running point" while facing the opposite basket.

I think we were fine with the no handcheck rule for quite a while.

In 2004, only two teams reached 100 points. 5 teams failed to reach 90 points.
In 2005, 6 teams reached 100 points, only one failed to reach 90.
In 2010, 18 of the 30 teams topped 100 points, with Phoenix leading the way at 110.
In 2015, 15 of the 30 teams topped 100 points, with GSW leading the way at 110.
In 2020, all 30 NBA teams reached 103 points, with 22 of them at 110 or more.

So... as you can see... perhaps the origins are there with the handcheck rule. But it's been in the last five years where the league scoring has gone batshit crazy off the charts compared to the previous 10 - 20 years.


Yeah, it's the discovery that 3-pointers are > than almost every single long and mid-range 2 that has been a big driver of scoring.

I think Khansy brings up some good points on cracking down on traveling and offensive-initiated contact too. Those are small-ish tweaks that are "good for the game" even if they don't move the needle as much on offensive output. You never see these shenanigans at the college level.

I think it's kind of cool to see guys pull up from 28 feet and splash them in like it's nothing. That is pure skill. Buuuut....in an ideal world, you want to reward teams/players for being able to make baskets from a variety of distances and the 50% premium you get on a 3-point attempt is too high. So they either need to increase the distance of the arc, clean up post defense, or do some combination of both (I prefer both).
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Lipoli390
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Re: This photo....

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If the NBA does only one thing regarding rules or rule enforcement, I'd want them to crack down on the offensive initiated contact on a jump shot. If the NBA were to do two things, I'd want them to also crack down on traveling.

I'm not keen on increasing the distance of the arc. How about limiting the number of 3 pointers a team is allowed to take or make in a game. The officials would track the number of 3 pointers and would inform a team when it has hit the cap. From that moment on, all that team's shots would be limited to 2 points regardless of where they're taken. That would be pretty radical, but it would be interesting. It would be fun to watch the Houston Rockets limited exclusively to 2-point shots by the 4th quarter. :)
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thedoper
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Re: This photo....

Post by thedoper »

lipoli390 wrote:If the NBA does only one thing regarding rules or rule enforcement, I'd want them to crack down on the offensive initiated contact on a jump shot. If the NBA were to do two things, I'd want them to also crack down on traveling.

I'm not keen on increasing the distance of the arc. How about limiting the number of 3 pointers a team is allowed to take or make in a game. The officials would track the number of 3 pointers and would inform a team when it has hit the cap. From that moment on, all that team's shots would be limited to 2 points regardless of where they're taken. That would be pretty radical, but it would be interesting. It would be fun to watch the Houston Rockets limited exclusively to 2-point shots by the 4th quarter. :)


I think real ramifications on foul hunting. The flopping rules have been a joke. As long as the most efficient play you can achieve is a foul on a three point shot the game has problems.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: This photo....

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

lipoli390 wrote:If the NBA does only one thing regarding rules or rule enforcement, I'd want them to crack down on the offensive initiated contact on a jump shot. If the NBA were to do two things, I'd want them to also crack down on traveling.

I'm not keen on increasing the distance of the arc. How about limiting the number of 3 pointers a team is allowed to take or make in a game. The officials would track the number of 3 pointers and would inform a team when it has hit the cap. From that moment on, all that team's shots would be limited to 2 points regardless of where they're taken. That would be pretty radical, but it would be interesting. It would be fun to watch the Houston Rockets limited exclusively to 2-point shots by the 4th quarter. :)


I haven't heard this thrown out there yet, but my initial reaction is that I like it and also dislike it. Let me explain. I like that it likely cleans up the game right now as there are far too many threes being jacked up, a lot of which are bad shots in my view (heavily contested). Guys are so talented that they are confident they can make them with a hand in the face, but that's not what makes the game of basketball art. Basketball is at its best when guys are driving and moving the ball and making extra passes for open shots. That's the game I enjoy watching.

Why I would be hesitant to make a rule like that is because I tend to prefer letting teams or organizations operate to the fullest strategic limits of the game. If you want to run five centers together, then go for it. If you want five point guards out there, then go for it. If you want to put guys around the paint and play a no layups defense, then go for it. I guess, even if I don't like it, that would include allowing a team to toss up 50 shots from three if they see a strategic advantage there.

So, I'm very much in the middle on that one even though there are reasons I like the idea.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: This photo....

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

I think you would have to allow unlimited 3 pointers in the last 4-5 minutes of the game. Teams wouldn't go for a rule that wouldn't allow for a late 3 to tie a game.
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Monster
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Re: This photo....

Post by Monster »

Camden0916 wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:If the NBA does only one thing regarding rules or rule enforcement, I'd want them to crack down on the offensive initiated contact on a jump shot. If the NBA were to do two things, I'd want them to also crack down on traveling.

I'm not keen on increasing the distance of the arc. How about limiting the number of 3 pointers a team is allowed to take or make in a game. The officials would track the number of 3 pointers and would inform a team when it has hit the cap. From that moment on, all that team's shots would be limited to 2 points regardless of where they're taken. That would be pretty radical, but it would be interesting. It would be fun to watch the Houston Rockets limited exclusively to 2-point shots by the 4th quarter. :)


I haven't heard this thrown out there yet, but my initial reaction is that I like it and also dislike it. Let me explain. I like that it likely cleans up the game right now as there are far too many threes being jacked up, a lot of which are bad shots in my view (heavily contested). Guys are so talented that they are confident they can make them with a hand in the face, but that's not what makes the game of basketball art. Basketball is at its best when guys are driving and moving the ball and making extra passes for open shots. That's the game I enjoy watching.

Why I would be hesitant to make a rule like that is because I tend to prefer letting teams or organizations operate to the fullest strategic limits of the game. If you want to run five centers together, then go for it. If you want five point guards out there, then go for it. If you want to put guys around the paint and play a no layups defense, then go for it. I guess, even if I don't like it, that would include allowing a team to toss up 50 shots from three if they see a strategic advantage there.

So, I'm very much in the middle on that one even though there are reasons I like the idea.


That idea has some problems in my mind especially down the stretch of a game. One team is playing a different set a rules in a close playoff game? I don't think that's good for the game.

I think something to consider is doing something about the area of the corner 3. There isn't much space to maneuver there. Either expand/widen the court so there Is more space to pass make plays from that spot or eliminate the corner 3...but then I think nobody would even stand there. I'd like to see how this new NBA plays out for a little while longer and go from there.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: This photo....

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I think you would have to allow unlimited 3 pointers in the last 4-5 minutes of the game. Teams wouldn't go for a rule that wouldn't allow for a late 3 to tie a game.



I think that's a fair trade-off.

I sorta like the limited amount of three pointers for the first 44 minutes idea. At least more than any changing of the scoring system I've seen.



[Note: By the way, Marcus Smart (a former horrendous shooter) has hit 5 three pointers in the first 4 minutes of the 4th quarter of a playoff game.]
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: This photo....

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Not a fan of limiting a certain type of shot. That just seems....unnatural I guess.

It has to be a combination of making interior scoring a bit more efficient by not allowing assault and battery by post defenders and making 3-point shooting a bit less efficient by extending the distance.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: This photo....

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Q12543 wrote:Not a fan of limiting a certain type of shot. That just seems....unnatural I guess.

It has to be a combination of making interior scoring a bit more efficient by not allowing assault and battery by post defenders and making 3-point shooting a bit less efficient by extending the distance.



Obviously, you've never experienced the joys of old fat man softball!
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