Harrell's comments directed at Luka

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mrhockey89
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

Post by mrhockey89 »

thedoper wrote:I think the talk player to player on the court should be left on the court. I know the NBA has gotten involved in the past with suspensions and the like and that was wrong in my opinion. Other than supporting an apology from Harrell to Luka, I dont think the league or anyone should be too involved in what is said during the heat of competition on the court. If it was into a microphone after the game, sure suspend the hell out of him. But let the players play their game like adults, including all of the passion, trash talking, and insults that come with competing with other adults at a high level.


The only problem I have in this statement is that had the situation been reversed it would have been front page headlines and Luka would be being called out by the entire league and labelled a racist. You know it's true too.

With that said, I also don't think it's all that big of a deal, and in saying that, I'm also saying that society as a whole is making a lot of mountains out of mole hills as it relates to race relations lately. Context hasn't mattered lately on anything. OK State football coach had to apologize for a picture where he was in a One America News t-shirt that was probably given to him free at some point (it's a heavily right leaning news station but does not mean he's racist even if he did watch it). The TCU football coach had to apologize for using the n-word (which in theory would make sense), but he was telling one of his players to STOP using the n-word in meetings. So suddenly the coach in the villain? My point is that none of these people (Montrezl, nor either coach) should have to apologize.

My last point...Luka is really, really good at the game of basketball. (but whines too much, like KAT)
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thedoper
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

Post by thedoper »

mrhockey89 wrote:
thedoper wrote:I think the talk player to player on the court should be left on the court. I know the NBA has gotten involved in the past with suspensions and the like and that was wrong in my opinion. Other than supporting an apology from Harrell to Luka, I dont think the league or anyone should be too involved in what is said during the heat of competition on the court. If it was into a microphone after the game, sure suspend the hell out of him. But let the players play their game like adults, including all of the passion, trash talking, and insults that come with competing with other adults at a high level.


The only problem I have in this statement is that had the situation been reversed it would have been front page headlines and Luka would be being called out by the entire league and labelled a racist. You know it's true too.

With that said, I also don't think it's all that big of a deal, and in saying that, I'm also saying that society as a whole is making a lot of mountains out of mole hills as it relates to race relations lately. Context hasn't mattered lately on anything. OK State football coach had to apologize for a picture where he was in a One America News t-shirt that was probably given to him free at some point (it's a heavily right leaning news station but does not mean he's racist even if he did watch it). The TCU football coach had to apologize for using the n-word (which in theory would make sense), but he was telling one of his players to STOP using the n-word in meetings. So suddenly the coach in the villain? My point is that none of these people (Montrezl, nor either coach) should have to apologize.

My last point...Luka is really, really good at the game of basketball. (but whines too much, like KAT)


The situation can never be reversed between blacks and whites in America. Our expectation has to be that the situations are treated differently because their situations have been totally different.

I already said I dont think the league or media should be involved with anything that is said on the court because the context is the heat of competition when adrenaline is high. They have in the past with homophobic and racial slurs. I think it was overkill in the past and would be total overkill to start now.

Also, is "white boy" a derogatory word anyway? Any white man that actually would take offence to that needs to grow some nuts.

Luka and Harrell both handled it like men. Non-story here imo.
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mrhockey89
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

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doper, I completely disagree with you on the "expectation has to be different" for ANY reason. If people are being honest about equal treatment, then they have to be willing to leave out the asterisks It sounds like what you're suggesting is a form of conditional treatment based on race, which I do have a problem with, and is the reason that Harrell had to apologize in the first place. Jay Williams had no problem calling out the hypocrisy. Like I said, I don't have a problem with it and think many things are being overblown right now, but you can't create an unequal expectation of virtue based on race then brand it "equality". That's literally is the opposite of the meaning of the word.

I agree with you on your 2nd point. But I'll go further in that I don't think sports venues are the place for athletes to get their personal views (on non-sports matters) across. They have a big enough platform on their own (media interview during off-days, twitter, etc) where they can voice their opinions and use that as a platform if they wish. Just as I can't go into my workplace and use that for my personal agenda/platform, there's no reason a professional athlete should be treated any differently at the workplace when it comes to professionalism. My dad was president of a company that had probably 50-80 employees, and he used to always say that he would be less likely to hire someone with a controversial appearance choice (example: pink hair), not because he cared one way or another, but that some of their customers may care. While the NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB may not care what is being done/said, if it alienates any part of their fan base it's lost revenue. Right now they're concerned about hard-lining because of internal backlash, but I can promise you the league would rather not be the centerpiece of these discussions.

To answer your white-boy question. Here's Urban Dictionary's take on your question:
"Derogotory term used by blacks to refer to caucasian peoples.If you call a black person "black boy", they say its racist but they refer to caucasian males as "white boy". So yes, it's meant to be demeaning. You're marginalizing it because you don't take offense to it, but it's clearly intended to be demeaning. So I go back to my original point in that you're inherently being descriminatory against whites when you say it's not okay for a white person to call a black person a racially slanted name, but it is okay for a black person to call a white person a racially slanted name.

I agree with you, non-story, but a lot of the non-stories have been stories lately, and that's the ONLY reason this is worthy of discussion, in my opinion.
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thedoper
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

Post by thedoper »

mrhockey89 wrote:doper, I completely disagree with you on the "expectation has to be different" for ANY reason. If people are being honest about equal treatment, then they have to be willing to leave out the asterisks It sounds like what you're suggesting is a form of conditional treatment based on race, which I do have a problem with, and is the reason that Harrell had to apologize in the first place. Jay Williams had no problem calling out the hypocrisy. Like I said, I don't have a problem with it and think many things are being overblown right now, but you can't create an unequal expectation of virtue based on race then brand it "equality". That's literally is the opposite of the meaning of the word.

I agree with you on your 2nd point. But I'll go further in that I don't think sports venues are the place for athletes to get their personal views (on non-sports matters) across. They have a big enough platform on their own (media interview during off-days, twitter, etc) where they can voice their opinions and use that as a platform if they wish. Just as I can't go into my workplace and use that for my personal agenda/platform, there's no reason a professional athlete should be treated any differently at the workplace when it comes to professionalism. My dad was president of a company that had probably 50-80 employees, and he used to always say that he would be less likely to hire someone with a controversial appearance choice (example: pink hair), not because he cared one way or another, but that some of their customers may care. While the NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB may not care what is being done/said, if it alienates any part of their fan base it's lost revenue. Right now they're concerned about hard-lining because of internal backlash, but I can promise you the league would rather not be the centerpiece of these discussions.

To answer your white-boy question. Here's Urban Dictionary's take on your question:
"Derogotory term used by blacks to refer to caucasian peoples.If you call a black person "black boy", they say its racist but they refer to caucasian males as "white boy". So yes, it's meant to be demeaning. You're marginalizing it because you don't take offense to it, but it's clearly intended to be demeaning. So I go back to my original point in that you're inherently being descriminatory against whites when you say it's not okay for a white person to call a black person a racially slanted name, but it is okay for a black person to call a white person a racially slanted name.

I agree with you, non-story, but a lot of the non-stories have been stories lately, and that's the ONLY reason this is worthy of discussion, in my opinion.


A racially slanted name doesnt have a context of slavery and segregation attached to it when directed at whites. It may be derogatory but it is not even in the same ballpark of offence which is why it is not as big of a deal and why no white with a set of stones should actually be offended by it. Context effects language. Like I said before the situation couldn't be equally reversed, it is impossible because blacks never enslaved and segregated whites and therefore any insult they dish out to whites ( white boy, no rythym, bad dancing, bad at basketball) will never be as bad as saying black boy.

I am discriminating, I am saying there isnt an appropriate equivalent of white boy that could be applied by whites to blacks. White boy is derogatory but it is the same as a child saying dummy. For a white adult to take any more offence than that upon hearing this racially slanted insult is childish and shows a complete lack of understanding to context and tact. Good thing Luka understood that.

On the second point, If we agree that the media and the league did the right thing in this case its worthy of discussion because mistakes have been in the past? Your disappointed, or upset that in this case the media expressed appropriate lack outrage?
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Wolvesfan21
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

Post by Wolvesfan21 »

It's the media trying to sell clicks. Twitter trying to make itself relevant, etc. The PC police are a bunch of fucking pussies. Why concern yourself with what a bunch of bunch of fucking pussies think. lol
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Q12543 wrote:I can't remember the hate toward Bird and some could argue that it went both ways, as he was often depicted as a "white savior". But your second point I agree with.


1. There were the Rodman + Thomas comments that "If Bird was black, he'd just be another good guy"
... that required a press conference during the NBA Finals.

2. I'm a bit torn on the comments... and people's 100% certainty of what would have happened in hypothetical reverse situations. Too often, we see those merely used to showcase a person's political leanings. I don't know for certain. Calling somebody a "bitch ass white/black guy" is not all that terrible. Luka probably gets a bit more heat for it though... and if he used the word "boy"... we'd probably be reading more articles highlighting why that's the wrong word to use and why Doncic shouldn't have used it... even if he's only been in the U.S. for a couple of years and probably doesn't know much about the long-seeded issues of slavery here.

3. Luka Doncic is damn good. I know I rip him for being an entitled whiny brat... but damn... apparently he deserves the superstar treatment. His uses of acceleration/deceleration is incredible. He's not super fast. Or huge. Or a super good shooter. But he's incredibly savvy and smart. Great vision. And a gamer. So crafty. He's been fun to watch.

And it shouldn't be lost that he's doing this vs. a team with two of the best wing defenders in the game. Why Reggie Jackson is put in any position to guard him is silly. He's a net negative and shouldn't be on the court in close playoff games. They need Beverley back desperately.
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Q12543 wrote:I can't remember the hate toward Bird and some could argue that it went both ways, as he was often depicted as a "white savior". But your second point I agree with.


1. There were the Rodman + Thomas comments that "If Bird was black, he'd just be another good guy"
... that required a press conference during the NBA Finals.

2. I'm a bit torn on the comments... and people's 100% certainty of what would have happened in hypothetical reverse situations. Too often, we see those merely used to showcase a person's political leanings. I don't know for certain. Calling somebody a "bitch ass white/black guy" is not all that terrible. Luka probably gets a bit more heat for it though... and if he used the word "boy"... we'd probably be reading more articles highlighting why that's the wrong word to use and why Doncic shouldn't have used it... even if he's only been in the U.S. for a couple of years and probably doesn't know much about the long-seeded issues of slavery here.

3. Luka Doncic is damn good. I know I rip him for being an entitled whiny brat... but damn... apparently he deserves the superstar treatment. His uses of acceleration/deceleration is incredible. He's not super fast. Or huge. Or a super good shooter. But he's incredibly savvy and smart. Great vision. And a gamer. So crafty. He's been fun to watch.

And it shouldn't be lost that he's doing this vs. a team with two of the best wing defenders in the game. Why Reggie Jackson is put in any position to guard him is silly. He's a net negative and shouldn't be on the court in close playoff games. They need Beverley back desperately.


I forgot about that Bird controversy. But still, the 80s and the Boston fanbase (or some of it) was not exactly a paragon of racial tolerance and color blindness.

On #2, I agree that it's disingenuous of someone to act aghast and offended at what Harrell said when at the same time they rail against political correctness in general. I don't think anyone here is claiming offense. It's more about a consistent application of the principles the NBA itself and its media lapdog (i.e. ESPN) loudly promotes. I personally think their China stance is much more noteworthy and troubling than this small tiff.

On #3, yeah, it's rare for someone who is neither an elite shooter or elite body/athlete (in the tradtional sense) to be this damn dominant. Hell, his defense was even pretty impressive yesterday. Just incredibly skilled and crafty. His game will age really well and I have to imagine the shooting will improve. This kid is going to be in the MVP discussion every year for a looooong time.

While he's a threat from 3, I still don't understand why teams don't go under screens more and just avoid the switches or drop coverage as his man chases. He is an absolute maestro when he gets into the paint so I'd be taking my chances on his 3-ball.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Q12543 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Q12543 wrote:I can't remember the hate toward Bird and some could argue that it went both ways, as he was often depicted as a "white savior". But your second point I agree with.


1. There were the Rodman + Thomas comments that "If Bird was black, he'd just be another good guy"
... that required a press conference during the NBA Finals.

2. I'm a bit torn on the comments... and people's 100% certainty of what would have happened in hypothetical reverse situations. Too often, we see those merely used to showcase a person's political leanings. I don't know for certain. Calling somebody a "bitch ass white/black guy" is not all that terrible. Luka probably gets a bit more heat for it though... and if he used the word "boy"... we'd probably be reading more articles highlighting why that's the wrong word to use and why Doncic shouldn't have used it... even if he's only been in the U.S. for a couple of years and probably doesn't know much about the long-seeded issues of slavery here.

3. Luka Doncic is damn good. I know I rip him for being an entitled whiny brat... but damn... apparently he deserves the superstar treatment. His uses of acceleration/deceleration is incredible. He's not super fast. Or huge. Or a super good shooter. But he's incredibly savvy and smart. Great vision. And a gamer. So crafty. He's been fun to watch.

And it shouldn't be lost that he's doing this vs. a team with two of the best wing defenders in the game. Why Reggie Jackson is put in any position to guard him is silly. He's a net negative and shouldn't be on the court in close playoff games. They need Beverley back desperately.


I forgot about that Bird controversy. But still, the 80s and the Boston fanbase (or some of it) was not exactly a paragon of racial tolerance and color blindness.

On #2, I agree that it's disingenuous of someone to act aghast and offended at what Harrell said when at the same time they rail against political correctness in general. I don't think anyone here is claiming offense. It's more about a consistent application of the principles the NBA itself and its media lapdog (i.e. ESPN) loudly promotes. I personally think their China stance is much more noteworthy and troubling than this small tiff.

On #3, yeah, it's rare for someone who is neither an elite shooter or elite body/athlete (in the tradtional sense) to be this damn dominant. Hell, his defense was even pretty impressive yesterday. Just incredibly skilled and crafty. His game will age really well and I have to imagine the shooting will improve. This kid is going to be in the MVP discussion every year for a looooong time.

While he's a threat from 3, I still don't understand why teams don't go under screens more and just avoid the switches or drop coverage as his man chases. He is an absolute maestro when he gets into the paint so I'd be taking my chances on his 3-ball.




2. I don't know enough about the China stuff to speak very well on the topic... but it was about money that has the NBA tucking tail, right?

3. Yes. Go under. Russell Westbrook is absolutely killed for his three point shooting attempts when he shoots them poorly. He's a career 30.5% shooter behind the arc. The only season he shot more than 5 per game (7.2) he shot 34.3%.

Doncic shot 31.6% on 8.9 attempts this season. GO UNDER! Don't switch.
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thedoper
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

Post by thedoper »

Steven Adams called Draymond Green a monkey without punishment from the league.
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Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka

Post by BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520] »

thedoper wrote:Steven Adams called Draymond Green a monkey without punishment from the league.


And just now one of Don Cheetos magats called Obama a monkey and Cheeto laughed at it. The RNC is off to a great start! Well done magats.
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