thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Bryn Forbes played in the 2017 Western Conference Finals and won a ring with Milwaukee just over a year ago. He wasn't in the Bucks' rotation every game, but he did play on and off throughout their playoff run.
Austin Rivers has played in 60 (!) playoff games, but has never been past the conference semi-finals. Gobert is similar to Rivers, but a few less total games.
I think part of the long view here is to get Ant and Jaden playoff reps early in their career so that by the time they are peaking as players they actually have legit playoff experience. You have to wonder if things would have ended differently for us against Memphis if KAT and DLO had more playoff experience.
thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Bryn Forbes played in the 2017 Western Conference Finals and won a ring with Milwaukee just over a year ago. He wasn't in the Bucks' rotation every game, but he did play on and off throughout their playoff run.
Austin Rivers has played in 60 (!) playoff games, but has never been past the conference semi-finals. Gobert is similar to Rivers, but a few less total games.
I think part of the long view here is to get Ant and Jaden playoff reps early in their career so that by the time they are peaking as players they actually have legit playoff experience. You have to wonder if things would have ended differently for us against Memphis if KAT and DLO had more playoff experience.
Kyle Anderson has played in 47 career playoff games. Sure none of those bench guys are going to equal Jason Kidd or probably even Beverly but I think any one of Rivers, Anderson and Forbes may have played more playoff games than everyone on the wolves roster last year combined except Beverly.
It's also worth looking at one of the reasons why Kidd was as effective for the Mavs in that championship is because he became an excellent 3 point shooter on a pretty decent volume. This was mostly after he turned 30 and I don't think most would have predicted Jason Kidd having 2+ season in a row of shooting well over 40% from 3. Sometimes guys can improve their game in one way or another even after they have been in the league for many years. I'm not saying to count on it but it does sometimes happen.
I think it's possible the Wolves end up adding a vet later that could help in the playoff experience department. That could be in a trade or maybe eventually filling a roster spot. The Wolves will probably be a real player in the buyout market this year if they have a need which most teams do even if things go really well for them.
thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Doper - Do you think Taurean Prince and/or Kyle Anderson can be that steadying vet force? Or how about Gobert? I think the are plenty of experienced, mature vets on this team. I've named the three that immediately come to mind. So I'm not concerned about a lack of mature, level-headed vets. I have two concerns. First, will we have enough defensive talent and moxie with Beverley gone? Second, is Edwards ready to take a big step forward physically and mentally to where he can be a two-way star al la Dwayne Wade or Kobe? It doesn't matter how many mature steadying vets we have on the roster if Edwards isn't ready to lead this team to championship contention.
thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Doper - Do you think Taurean Prince and/or Kyle Anderson can be that steadying vet force? Or how about Gobert? I think the are plenty of experienced, mature vets on this team. I've named the three that immediately come to mind. So I'm not concerned about a lack of mature, level-headed vets. I have two concerns. First, will we have enough defensive talent and moxie with Beverley gone? Second, is Edwards ready to take a big step forward physically and mentally to where he can be a two-way star al la Dwayne Wade or Kobe? It doesn't matter how many mature steadying vets we have on the roster if Edwards isn't ready to lead this team to championship contention.
Lip, I dont think Gobert or Anderson are those guys. I think we are a very talented team that will take a while to gel and will likely take some lumps in our more high pressure games. I wish we had another vet, particularly one with the ball that could calm the game down when it matters. Pat Bev was a cheaper version of that who brought smart and timely D and smart plays and probably bumped us to 4 or 5 more wins last season. Im hoping with some noise this year we get even more prominent vets who consider us.
On Edwards, Im sure next year he will take a step up and still be capable of decision making lapses when the pressure is on, that is why you have smart vets on your team. I really like where the roster is at personally, I just dont think we are where the championship Mavs were at in terms of pedigree.
thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Doper - Do you think Taurean Prince and/or Kyle Anderson can be that steadying vet force? Or how about Gobert? I think the are plenty of experienced, mature vets on this team. I've named the three that immediately come to mind. So I'm not concerned about a lack of mature, level-headed vets. I have two concerns. First, will we have enough defensive talent and moxie with Beverley gone? Second, is Edwards ready to take a big step forward physically and mentally to where he can be a two-way star al la Dwayne Wade or Kobe? It doesn't matter how many mature steadying vets we have on the roster if Edwards isn't ready to lead this team to championship contention.
Lip, I dont think Gobert or Anderson are those guys. I think we are a very talented team that will take a while to gel and will likely take some lumps in our more high pressure games. I wish we had another vet, particularly one with the ball that could calm the game down when it matters. Pat Bev was a cheaper version of that who brought smart and timely D and smart plays and probably bumped us to 4 or 5 more wins last season. Im hoping with some noise this year we get even more prominent vets who consider us.
On Edwards, Im sure next year he will take a step up and still be capable of decision making lapses when the pressure is on, that is why you have smart vets on your team. I really like where the roster is at personally, I just dont think we are where the championship Mavs were at in terms of pedigree.
I see your point, Doper. I think it will be hard to fill the role that Pat Bev played on the team.
I looked back at the top 5 guys in terms of playoff minutes played of championship teams over the past 10-15 years....In a bunch of cases, 2-3 or more of the top 5 guys are in their 30s. And that includes the Mavs team:
Dirk - 32
Kidd - 37
Marion - 32
Terry - 33
Chandler - 28
Only one of these guys was "in his prime" from a regular season perspective. But the playoffs are a different animal.
Oh, and times haven't changes so much!
2022::
Klay - 31
Wiggins - 26
Curry - 33
Green - 31
Poole - 22
Q-was-here wrote:I looked back at the top 5 guys in terms of playoff minutes played of championship teams over the past 10-15 years....In a bunch of cases, 2-3 or more of the top 5 guys are in their 30s. And that includes the Mavs team:
Dirk - 32
Kidd - 37
Marion - 32
Terry - 33
Chandler - 28
Only one of these guys was "in his prime" from a regular season perspective. But the playoffs are a different animal.
Oh, and times haven't changes so much!
2022::
Klay - 31
Wiggins - 26
Curry - 33
Green - 31
Poole - 22
Yeah that is really interesting. You need some youth for energy. But you also need some poise. Maybe Gobert gives us some of that, but its really hard if he wont be touching the ball in crunch time outside of offensive rebounds.
thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Doper - Do you think Taurean Prince and/or Kyle Anderson can be that steadying vet force? Or how about Gobert? I think the are plenty of experienced, mature vets on this team. I've named the three that immediately come to mind. So I'm not concerned about a lack of mature, level-headed vets. I have two concerns. First, will we have enough defensive talent and moxie with Beverley gone? Second, is Edwards ready to take a big step forward physically and mentally to where he can be a two-way star al la Dwayne Wade or Kobe? It doesn't matter how many mature steadying vets we have on the roster if Edwards isn't ready to lead this team to championship contention.
Lip, I dont think Gobert or Anderson are those guys. I think we are a very talented team that will take a while to gel and will likely take some lumps in our more high pressure games. I wish we had another vet, particularly one with the ball that could calm the game down when it matters. Pat Bev was a cheaper version of that who brought smart and timely D and smart plays and probably bumped us to 4 or 5 more wins last season. Im hoping with some noise this year we get even more prominent vets who consider us.
On Edwards, Im sure next year he will take a step up and still be capable of decision making lapses when the pressure is on, that is why you have smart vets on your team. I really like where the roster is at personally, I just dont think we are where the championship Mavs were at in terms of pedigree.
I see your point, Doper. I think it will be hard to fill the role that Pat Bev played on the team.
I just want to say that Beverly made some incredibly stupid plays at times including later in the game in that Memphis series. He often made a play soon after that probably made up for it but it should be mentioned he had some poor decision making.
Q-was-here wrote:I looked back at the top 5 guys in terms of playoff minutes played of championship teams over the past 10-15 years....In a bunch of cases, 2-3 or more of the top 5 guys are in their 30s. And that includes the Mavs team:
Dirk - 32
Kidd - 37
Marion - 32
Terry - 33
Chandler - 28
Only one of these guys was "in his prime" from a regular season perspective. But the playoffs are a different animal.
Oh, and times haven't changes so much!
2022::
Klay - 31
Wiggins - 26
Curry - 33
Green - 31
Poole - 22
Yeah that is really interesting. You need some youth for energy. But you also need some poise. Maybe Gobert gives us some of that, but its really hard if he wont be touching the ball in crunch time outside of offensive rebounds.
Here is the age of the Warriors top 7 players (minutes) when they won in 2015.
GS had won a playoff series and had made the playoffs in back to back seasons before their title run (only won 23 games before that) but Draymond Green's emergence was certainly one of the big factors in them taking the step forward and winning a championship. That season they added Sean Livingston. I think Kyle Anderson could have at least the type of impact Livingston did. The Wolves may be one vet short and some experience short of being legit title contenders this season but I don't think this year is championship or bust but it would be good to make some sort of legit playoff run though to take that next step.
