Thibs is biggest Fraud since Madoff

[Mstermisty [enjin:6864008]]

This season, no matter how you look at it, has been a terrible disappointment. But when it comes to Thibs, I think you simply have to give him until next season to prove himself. He'll have the rest of the year to evaluate the players he has, maybe make a move or two, and then the entire off-season to put together an improved version of this year's team. Our young guys will be a year older, and significant improvement needs to be shown, or Thibs should be shown the door.

That said, so far Thibs has not got the best out of these guys, individually or collectively. It would be nice to see SOME improvement over the 2nd half of the season. But honestly, if their defense remains this bad, I don't necessarily see it happening. They can't stop anybody for long, and even if they do, none of our young guys has stepped up as a game closer yet. Thibs is trying to push Wiggins into that role, but as we have all seen, the results haven't been there.

So, in a year if things are still bleak, then call Thibs a fraud. But I think you have to give him a pass for now, even considering how bad we have played.

[Porckchop]

Is it a coincidence that the biggest Thibs critics are the biggest Rubio supporters?

[Mstermisty [enjin:6864008]]

Is it a coincidence that the biggest Thibs critics are the biggest Rubio supporters?

Congrats Pork, you brought another thread back to Ricky. And that is not a coincidence.

[Porckchop]

You'd be surprised how few of these threads I actually swing that way, but I understand that my views would make you believe that. At least I'm consistent :)

Honestly Imy not surprised by the struggles the team is having. Young players have to first prove that belong and that comes with a bit of selfishness that doesn't always help team play. When you have 3 young players it's that much harder. Thibs will get this turned around , 2019 is our year!

[Carlos Danger]

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

http://giphy.com/gifs/ngkuaziHP1ZpS

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'm not enough of a basketball guru to dole out blame which is why I say everyone is right to a degree when pointing fingers, but these are once again damning, daming stats. Really? EVERY player has regressed or stagnated except Zach (and one could argue he hasn't necessarily improved as a SG, just that he's better at SG than PG)? Really!?! That has NOTHING to do with Thibs system????

Take Rubio for instance, a lot of people's favorite punching bag (and understandably so). He had a career year just last season! He had a positive net rating. Those are above average numbers for those metrics. Has he really gotten that worse over the course of one off season?

You can go on down the line and every player we know worked hard this offseason and came into the year healthy. What has happened?

You're way off base on this one, Q, and maybe Tim McCarver can set you straight with his comment about Bob Gibson: "Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball...he's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs!".

Well, Thibs is clearly the unluckiest coach in basketball...he took the Wolves' job at the exact time every player decided to start playing worse!

See how it works?

LOL, I guess that's one excuse we could throw out there!

Another more nuanced excuse might be that Thibs is teaching and saying all the right things, but simply isn't able to get through to these guys in a way that motivates and engages their play. One can be a perfectly competent coach, but simply a poor fit for the personalities he's working with. I've certainly seen this in business. Competence and organizational fit are two different things.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'm not enough of a basketball guru to dole out blame which is why I say everyone is right to a degree when pointing fingers, but these are once again damning, daming stats. Really? EVERY player has regressed or stagnated except Zach (and one could argue he hasn't necessarily improved as a SG, just that he's better at SG than PG)? Really!?! That has NOTHING to do with Thibs system????

Take Rubio for instance, a lot of people's favorite punching bag (and understandably so). He had a career year just last season! He had a positive net rating. Those are above average numbers for those metrics. Has he really gotten that worse over the course of one off season?

You can go on down the line and every player we know worked hard this offseason and came into the year healthy. What has happened?

You're way off base on this one, Q, and maybe Tim McCarver can set you straight with his comment about Bob Gibson: "Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball...he's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs!".

Well, Thibs is clearly the unluckiest coach in basketball...he took the Wolves' job at the exact time every player decided to start playing worse!

See how it works?

LOL, I guess that's one excuse we could throw out there!

Another more nuanced excuse might be that Thibs is teaching and saying all the right things, but simply isn't able to get through to these guys in a way that motivates and engages their play. One can be a perfectly competent coach, but simply a poor fit for the personalities he's working with. I've certainly seen this in business. Competence and organizational fit are two different things.

So many theories, q. and I'm the first to admit I don't have the answers. Maybe Thibs' style isn't clicking with the guys, or maybe we have the dumbest roster in the league...after all, Sam wasn't able to have much more success teaching these guys defense than Thibs is. I'm starting to worry it may be the latter. As the number of games played begins to mount for these guys and I see little defensive improvement, especially our third year players, I'm moving further and further away from the "they're just young" mantra.

[mjs34]

I am on board with LST. Thibs is a big problem with this team. There is a clearly a stupidity factor at play here as well, and I associate both with Gorgi. I know most really like him because he plays hard and seems like a good chemistry guy, but i can't ignore his horrible defense.

Thibs has come out and actually stated that Gorgi is an above average PnR defender, but it seems that the majority of NBA coaches tend to disagree with him or they wouldn't continually run PnR's against Gorgi. Gorgi just doesn't get out of the paint to stop the ball handler from turning the corner, and this creates several problems which lead to the breakdown of our team defense. The first is allowing the ball handler to play downhill against Gorgi, which usually results in a layup. The second is that it opens up passing lanes to the big (Gorgi's man), and also the weakside corner, who is open because his defender has come off to help on the big.

I am not sure if Gorgi is just too stupid to understand what is expected of him, or if he just processes things too slowly, but he can't continue to play next to KAT if we ever expect to win. His contract is going to be a huge problem over the next few years.

The younger guys have to take responsiblity as well, but when your most basic principle is being ignored, it makes impossible to move forward as a team. Our core three need to be more cognizant of their shot not falling, and attack the basket more, while passing up on those 20 foot looks that seem to miss 20 times a game. Thibs is at fault here as well, because he has to be willing to shake things up, rather than looking like a monkey on the sidelines, that continually runs with him same substitution patterns regardless of the play on the floor.

Why did he pull Rush off the floor for Lavine when Rush was finally in a zone? As some others have questioned, why is Rubio even on the floor if he isn't controlling the offense? What is with Thibs complete mismanagement of timeouts? Why don't we make offensive/defensive substitutions in close late game situations?

[Lipoli390]

I'm not enough of a basketball guru to dole out blame which is why I say everyone is right to a degree when pointing fingers, but these are once again damning, daming stats. Really? EVERY player has regressed or stagnated except Zach (and one could argue he hasn't necessarily improved as a SG, just that he's better at SG than PG)? Really!?! That has NOTHING to do with Thibs system????

Take Rubio for instance, a lot of people's favorite punching bag (and understandably so). He had a career year just last season! He had a positive net rating. Those are above average numbers for those metrics. Has he really gotten that worse over the course of one off season?

You can go on down the line and every player we know worked hard this offseason and came into the year healthy. What has happened?

Q - I might be mistaken, but I just think you pointed you finger - directly at Thibs. :). Or perhaps you'd say the evidence points to Thibs. Either way, there really shouldn't be much of a debate. Every player is ultimately responsible for how he plays. But when each player and the team collectively are far worse than the previous season and the only change is in the head coach, the buck has to stop with the new head coach.

When a sales team in a company performs horribly and gets worse after hiring a new VP I can tell you from experience that the company doesn't fire the entire sales team and they certainly don't fire young guys considered to be their most talented sales personnel. Instead, they fire the VP and get a new one. If Sam Mitchell started as the Wolves head coach this season, we all know he'd be on the edge of termination if not already fired by now in spite of his considerable success as head coach at Toronto. Thibs had enough success in his one stint as the Bulls' head coach to merit at least an entire season here before seriously considering termination. But the same roster that finished with 29 wins and improved over the course of last season under Sam has regressed in every statistical category and is on track to win fewer games this season under Thibs. If we end up improving substantially the second half of this season, I'll be one of the first to credit Thibs. But you can't credibly excuse or shield Thibs from ultimate accountablility for this season's failure if we end up where we're currently headed. That accountability always and rightly comes with the job.