Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Hopefully the play from the last time he was out carries over and we have enough to make the playoffs. A first round exit with your best player out isn't a bad thing. Just get in and get Towns and Wiggins the experience. Time for Wiggins to step up again.

Yeah, this is just another opportunity for Wiggins to show if he's capable of shouldering the load. Everything we've seen thus far says that he cannot, but maybe something clicks. I'm not betting on it, but I'm hopeful.

Regardless, I bet we all wish we would have added a wing before the deadline now. This injury would be a little easier to deal with if Kent Bazemore or DeMarre Carroll was on the roster, or Marco Bellini, or Courtney Lee.

I definitely wish we had acquired one of the wings you mentioned. I'd add Tyreke Evans to the list. I'm still mystified that we didn't pursue signing Belinelli when he was released. I'm also surprised we didn't pursue signing Luke Babbit.

Maybe Bazz will suddenly emerge as the player Flip thought he's be. That falls into the category of "anything can happen." :) Belly will probably become our other starting wing.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Hopefully the play from the last time he was out carries over and we have enough to make the playoffs. A first round exit with your best player out isn't a bad thing. Just get in and get Towns and Wiggins the experience. Time for Wiggins to step up again.

Yeah, this is just another opportunity for Wiggins to show if he's capable of shouldering the load. Everything we've seen thus far says that he cannot, but maybe something clicks. I'm not betting on it, but I'm hopeful.

Regardless, I bet we all wish we would have added a wing before the deadline now. This injury would be a little easier to deal with if Kent Bazemore or DeMarre Carroll was on the roster, or Marco Bellini, or Courtney Lee.

I definitely wish we had acquired one of the wings you mentioned. I'd add Tyreke Evans to the list. I'm still mystified that we didn't pursue signing Belinelli when he was released. I'm also surprised we didn't pursue signing Luke Babbit.

Maybe Bazz will suddenly emerge as the player Flip thought he's be. That falls into the category of "anything can happen." :) Belly will probably become our other starting wing.

The Heat traded for your boy Babbit although the return was negligible for the Hawks.

Personally If Butler is done for the yet I wouldn't want to give up an asset to get a wing. Why? Let's be honest this possible injury puts us closer to developmental mode than all in. If Butler misses a couple months next season that's tough too. We need to keep building through young cheap players in case this whole thing really goes sideways. I'm sorry but Kent Bazemore isn't saving this franchise. Memphis wouldn't take two 2nd rounders for Evans. You can't force teams to trade guys.

Butler's injury shows why keeping Anthony Brown in the G-league till you need him was not a bad idea. If another wing player got hurt he would probably be playing every night. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Hopefully the play from the last time he was out carries over and we have enough to make the playoffs. A first round exit with your best player out isn't a bad thing. Just get in and get Towns and Wiggins the experience. Time for Wiggins to step up again.

Yeah, this is just another opportunity for Wiggins to show if he's capable of shouldering the load. Everything we've seen thus far says that he cannot, but maybe something clicks. I'm not betting on it, but I'm hopeful.

Regardless, I bet we all wish we would have added a wing before the deadline now. This injury would be a little easier to deal with if Kent Bazemore or DeMarre Carroll was on the roster, or Marco Bellini, or Courtney Lee.

I definitely wish we had acquired one of the wings you mentioned. I'd add Tyreke Evans to the list. I'm still mystified that we didn't pursue signing Belinelli when he was released. I'm also surprised we didn't pursue signing Luke Babbit.

Maybe Bazz will suddenly emerge as the player Flip thought he's be. That falls into the category of "anything can happen." :) Belly will probably become our other starting wing.

The Heat traded for your boy Babbit although the return was negligible for the Hawks.

Personally If Butler is done for the year I wouldn't want to give up an asset to get a wing. Why? Let's be honest this possible injury puts us closer to developmental mode than all in. If Butler misses a couple months next season that's tough too. We need to keep building through young cheap players in case this whole thing really goes sideways. I'm sorry but Kent Bazemore isn't saving this franchise. Memphis wouldn't take two 2nd rounders for Evans. You can't force teams to trade guys.

Butler's injury shows why keeping Anthony Brown in the G-league till you need him was not a bad idea. If another wing player got hurt he would probably be playing every night. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

You're thinking about this the wrong way, friend. Acquiring any one of Bazemore, Carroll, Lee, Belinelli, or Evans would have bolstered the bench and -- in the case of an injury -- kept the boat afloat until the injured wing returned, whether that was in one month, two, or however long. This is a terrible "I told you so" moment and that's not my intent, but this situation was what I feared most. One injury to Butler or Wiggins was going to make an already weak part of the team -- depth at the wings -- an even bigger issue, which is tough to imagine.

And my apologies, but we are far from the traditional sense of "development mode" regardless of what happens now. That phase was gone the day Zach LaVine, Kris Dunn, and the draft selection that turned into Lauri Markkenan was sent to Chicago. At that very moment, this team had turned its focus to making a push for this year and beyond. We made subsequent moves that supported that notion by signing Taj Gibson and Jeff Teague.

I've thought Tom Thibodeau has done a great job in transforming the roster -- despite minor nitpicks of my own -- and has used his assets rather wisely, as well as acquiring them via trade, but I've remained consistent in my view that it was irresponsible to not acquire another wing.

And while Memphis wasn't taking second round picks for Evans, they were openly hunting for a first-round pick for him. We heard the same about the Hawks' asking price for Bazemore, and the Nets asking price for Carroll. There wasn't much chatter revolving Lee, but I think it's a fair assessment that the re-tooling Knicks would have been interested in that deal.

Sure, none of those teams were able to get that first-round pick they desired, but I'd argue no other team needed that wing more than the Wolves did. And I would have had no issue with moving that pick for one of those wings previously mentioned.

Had we been fighting for the seventh or eighth-seed, I might feel differently. But we were probably going to be the favorites to lock up the third-seed in a highly competitive Western Conference. Had this injury happened and all we had to do was throw in another starting level wing, the bleeding wouldn't be as severe as it's going to be. It would have been like putting a band-aid on a cut. Instead, we are gashed with little to no help to be found. Thank goodness we have that first-round pick in our pocket, though...

I understand the other side of it. I just do not agree with it whatsoever. That's the way my mind works.

Camden wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Hopefully the play from the last time he was out carries over and we have enough to make the playoffs. A first round exit with your best player out isn't a bad thing. Just get in and get Towns and Wiggins the experience. Time for Wiggins to step up again.

Yeah, this is just another opportunity for Wiggins to show if he's capable of shouldering the load. Everything we've seen thus far says that he cannot, but maybe something clicks. I'm not betting on it, but I'm hopeful.

Regardless, I bet we all wish we would have added a wing before the deadline now. This injury would be a little easier to deal with if Kent Bazemore or DeMarre Carroll was on the roster, or Marco Bellini, or Courtney Lee.

I definitely wish we had acquired one of the wings you mentioned. I'd add Tyreke Evans to the list. I'm still mystified that we didn't pursue signing Belinelli when he was released. I'm also surprised we didn't pursue signing Luke Babbit.

Maybe Bazz will suddenly emerge as the player Flip thought he's be. That falls into the category of "anything can happen." :) Belly will probably become our other starting wing.

The Heat traded for your boy Babbit although the return was negligible for the Hawks.

Personally If Butler is done for the year I wouldn't want to give up an asset to get a wing. Why? Let's be honest this possible injury puts us closer to developmental mode than all in. If Butler misses a couple months next season that's tough too. We need to keep building through young cheap players in case this whole thing really goes sideways. I'm sorry but Kent Bazemore isn't saving this franchise. Memphis wouldn't take two 2nd rounders for Evans. You can't force teams to trade guys.

Butler's injury shows why keeping Anthony Brown in the G-league till you need him was not a bad idea. If another wing player got hurt he would probably be playing every night. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

You're thinking about this the wrong way, friend. Acquiring any one of Bazemore, Carroll, Lee, Belinelli, or Evans would have bolstered the bench and -- in the case of an injury -- kept the boat afloat until the injured wing returned, whether that was in one month, two, or however long. This is a terrible "I told you so" moment and that's not my intent, but this situation was what I feared most. One injury to Butler or Wiggins was going to make an already weak part of the team -- depth at the wings -- an even bigger issue, which is tough to imagine.

And my apologies, but we are far from the traditional sense of "development mode" regardless of what happens now. That phase was gone the day Zach LaVine, Kris Dunn, and the draft selection that turned into Lauri Markkenan was sent to Chicago. At that very moment, this team had turned its focus to making a push for this year and beyond. We made subsequent moves that supported that notion by signing Taj Gibson and Jeff Teague.

I've thought Tom Thibodeau has done a great job in transforming the roster -- despite minor nitpicks of my own -- and has used his assets rather wisely, as well as acquiring them via trade, but I've remained consistent in my view that it was irresponsible to not acquire another wing.

And while Memphis wasn't taking second round picks for Evans, they were openly hunting for a first-round pick for him. We heard the same about the Hawks' asking price for Bazemore, and the Nets asking price for Carroll. There wasn't much chatter revolving Lee, but I think it's a fair assessment that the re-tooling Knicks would have been interested in that deal.

Sure, none of those teams were able to get that first-round pick they desired, but I'd argue no other team needed that wing more than the Wolves did. And I would have had no issue with moving that pick for one of those wings previously mentioned.

Had we been fighting for the seventh or eighth-seed, I might feel differently. But we were probably going to be the favorites to lock up the third-seed in a highly competitive Western Conference. Had this injury happened and all we had to do was throw in another starting level wing, the bleeding wouldn't be as severe as it's going to be. It would have been like putting a band-aid on a cut. Instead, we are gashed with little to no help to be found. Thank goodness we have that first-round pick in our pocket, though...

I understand the other side of it. I just do not agree with it whatsoever. That's the way my mind works.

Now the injury sucks and if he did tear his ACL it sucks even more. But still am happy we did not trade the pick. Add any of the guys you mentioned above we might stay afloat (maybe) but we would not be competitive in the playoffs. And none of those guys moves us from the 3 seed to beating the Warriors or the Rockets if Jimmy would of kept healthy.

You mention that we gave up on the development route the day we traded #7, Dunn and Lavine and I agree to some extent but that does not mean we shouldn't care about developing young players. I still think it is dumb to do short term patch work, instead of continuing to build for long term stability, especially when we are not contending for a title this year.

Also if we just do small patch work with trading our picks each year what are we, we are the Clippers. Really good team but not good enough to make the finals or even the Western Conference finals. They have had to trade 2 of there stars because they could never get over the hump with their patch work.

Look at the Rockets they kept using there draft picks to acquire young talent instead of doing patch work. And they were able to trade 3 of those picks to acquire Chris Paul. Look at the Jazz they kept drafting young talent and they were able to turn Lyles and a late 1st into Donavan Mitchell.

I understand your point, but we are still in the long game, now if we could of traded our pick for a all star caliber player of course do that but any guy we add would of kept us in the spot we are still in the best team with no chance to win a championship.

Jon K trolling on twitter saying he has the MRI results but doesn't want to post them yet, I feel like that's a good sign?

I'm not saying to give up on developing players, but it would not be an unusual move in the league for a playoff team to trade a first-round pick outside of the lottery for a productive, starting level -- or just below that -- role player. I can probably find pages of examples of where that's happened and I'd bet that it's worked out well for the team acquiring the known talent more often than not -- primarily because of the crapshoot that the draft is, has been, and forever will be.

You compared the Wolves to the Clippers, and I can see why you did. Personally, I don't think any of us would be too upset if the Wolves reeled off a stretch of five seasons where the team went 40-26 (5th), 56-26 (4th), 57-25 (3rd), 56-26 (3rd), 53-29 (4th), and 51-31 (4th) during the regular season. That's arguably a better stretch of basketball than anything this franchise has seen despite the magical 2003-04 run to the WCF.

As I see it, the Clippers had three problems.

- Firstly, they never assembled a dependable bench despite trying many different combinations over the years. The last couple years were especially troubling where LA only went eight deep.

- Secondly, they were beyond reckless with their first-round draft picks. One can not justify trading a first-round pick for a head coach not named Greg Popovich, especially not Doc Rivers. And the trade for Jeff Green was just silly. And while not necessarily reckless, they didn't nab a productive role player with the picks they did use. Reggie Bullock, C.J. Wilcox, Brice Johnson, and Cheick Diallo all flamed out in LA. Perhaps that's just another example of how unpredictable the draft is.

- Thirdly, they choked when they had the upper-hand too many times. LA had three (THREE!) first-round playoff exits while having home-court advantage. That's inexcusable considering the top-end talent they ran out nightly. In 2013, they went up 2-0 against Memphis only to lose four straight. In 2016, they went up 2-0 against Portland only to lose four straight. Crazy, if you ask me.

I ranted for a bit there, but there's three main points in this long reply.

Establishing a competent bench is quite important -- can even be a season-changer. Doesn't matter how you assemble it (trade, draft, or free agent) as long as it's productive and doesn't involve breaking up your core.

First-round picks arguably have more value before their draft date. Oh, and they've been traded for far worse items than any of the wings I mentioned in this thread.

And there's nothing wrong with being a legitimate contender even if you can't win it all. That's not a loser's mentality, but you have to get to that point. We are still a good bit away because of the holes on our roster.

Cam we disagree on this quite a bit. That's cool. You know I respect your position and viewpoint.

monsterpile wrote:Cam we disagree on this quite a bit. That's cool. You know I respect your position and viewpoint.

Absolutely, and I hold the same respect for you and your thoughts. If my lengthy rebuttal came off aggressively, that wasn't the goal. I'm sure you know that.

I think we can agree on this much. I'd bet we see more of Georges-Hunt the next couple months. Hope he's been shooting in the gym!

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Cam we disagree on this quite a bit. That's cool. You know I respect your position and viewpoint.

Absolutely, and I hold the same respect for you and your thoughts. If my lengthy rebuttal came off aggressively, that wasn't the goal. I'm sure you know that.

I think we can agree on this much. I'd bet we see more of Georges-Hunt the next couple months. Hope he's been shooting in the gym!

Nah you weren't too aggressive. Like i said we have been over this a bit although the circumstances are a bit different now.

Yep MGH is gonna get some opportunities as will other players yes maybe even Bazz and I get if that makes some people throw up in their mouth a bit. He is gonna have to do something positive (not holding out hope I just think it seems like Thibs will give him a shot) or it will be a short opportunity. I think Anthony Brown will get minutes if we don't add someone half decent which...we gotta add someone right?

Ugh we don't know for sure Butler is done for the season but it's really hard to be optimistic right now.

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Cam we disagree on this quite a bit. That's cool. You know I respect your position and viewpoint.

Absolutely, and I hold the same respect for you and your thoughts. If my lengthy rebuttal came off aggressively, that wasn't the goal. I'm sure you know that.

I think we can agree on this much. I'd bet we see more of Georges-Hunt the next couple months. Hope he's been shooting in the gym!

Nah you weren't too aggressive. Like i said we have been over this a bit although the circumstances are a bit different now.

Yep MGH is gonna get some opportunities as will other players yes maybe even Bazz and I get if that makes some people throw up in their mouth a bit. He is gonna have to do something positive (not holding out hope I just think it seems like Thibs will give him a shot) or it will be a short opportunity. I think Anthony Brown will get minutes if we don't add someone half decent which...we gotta add someone right?

Ugh we don't know for sure Butler is done for the season but it's really hard to be optimistic right now.

I'm still hoping for good news on Jimmy. But at this point, even good news (e.g., miniscus rather than ACL) would likely mean Jimmy's out for the rest of the regular season. I have absolutely no confidence in MGH as someone who can fill part of the gap in any meaningful way. I've found him entirely underwhelming. I have only slightly more hope for Anthony Brown. I think the keys to hanging on to no worse than a 6th seed are Wiggins, Belly, Bazz and Thibs. Wiggins and Belly will need to play consistently the rest of the season the way they did when Butler was out a few weeks ago. Bazz will need to step up and be the player Thibs obviously thought he could be when he offered Bazz a multi-year 10 million per year deal. And Thibs will have to show some offensive imagination we haven't seen from him in his nearly two years here as our head coach. The pure 4th quarter iso game won't work with Jimmy out. Wiggins doesn't have the handle to make it work and Bazz isn't at that level.