Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

benthewolf wrote:Utah is going to grab the 7 or 8 seed.

My God they have got themselves on a roll and look at some of the teams they have beaten. It looks like my guy Ricky Rubio is helping to lead the way too! May be Snyder is finally letting Ricky be Ricky because I see his assists are starting to pile up lately. If you are going to have him out there, you gotta give him some freedom to push the pace and make plays with the ball in his hands.

Ricky Rubio's first 8 games: 17.5 PTS, 6.5 AST, 4.9 REB, 2.1 STL, 43.7 FG%, 37.2 3P%, 91.9 FT%

Ricky Rubio's last 8 games: 15.9 PTS, 7.1 AST, 5.6 REB, 1.1 STL, 50 FG%, 50 3P%, 84.4 FT%

The 35 games in between: 9.7 PTS, 4.3 AST, 3.8 REB, 1.5 STL, 37.2 FG%, 26.4 3P%, 86.1 FT%

This is a tweet from a day ago from a Utah writer. That's... quite the difference in players.

Camden0916 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

benthewolf wrote:Utah is going to grab the 7 or 8 seed.

My God they have got themselves on a roll and look at some of the teams they have beaten. It looks like my guy Ricky Rubio is helping to lead the way too! May be Snyder is finally letting Ricky be Ricky because I see his assists are starting to pile up lately. If you are going to have him out there, you gotta give him some freedom to push the pace and make plays with the ball in his hands.

Ricky Rubio's first 8 games: 17.5 PTS, 6.5 AST, 4.9 REB, 2.1 STL, 43.7 FG%, 37.2 3P%, 91.9 FT%

Ricky Rubio's last 8 games: 15.9 PTS, 7.1 AST, 5.6 REB, 1.1 STL, 50 FG%, 50 3P%, 84.4 FT%

The 35 games in between: 9.7 PTS, 4.3 AST, 3.8 REB, 1.5 STL, 37.2 FG%, 26.4 3P%, 86.1 FT%

This is a tweet from a day ago from a Utah writer. That's... quite the difference in players.

Rubio's usage has been around 20% the last couple months.

Since the beginning of December Donovan Mitchell has averaged 23 ppg.

Wait so it was Quinn Snyder's fault that Rubio had a slump and looked like he barely belonged in the NBA? Sounds like the same conversation we had last year. Ricky will always have a few nice stretches that get people optimistic. Ultimately he's a nice back up PG, hope he finds that role for a contender like the Spurs, Rockets, Warriors, or Celtics. Just not reliable enough to have as your main option. Glad he may be in the playoffs though, Utah could really wear down the Rockets if we make it to the 3 seed.

Camden wrote:

Ricky Rubio's first 8 games: 17.5 PTS, 6.5 AST, 4.9 REB, 2.1 STL, 43.7 FG%, 37.2 3P%, 91.9 FT%

Ricky Rubio's last 8 games: 15.9 PTS, 7.1 AST, 5.6 REB, 1.1 STL, 50 FG%, 50 3P%, 84.4 FT%

The 35 games in between: 9.7 PTS, 4.3 AST, 3.8 REB, 1.5 STL, 37.2 FG%, 26.4 3P%, 86.1 FT%

This is a tweet from a day ago from a Utah writer. That's... quite the difference in players.

It seems to me that this tweet was trying to make Ricky's current streak of good games to be longer than it really has been.

His first 4 game averages of that 8 game period were:
9.8 PTS, 5.8 AST, 6.5 REB, 1.3 STL, 38.2 FG% 33.3 3P% and 3.0 TO
and averages over last 4 games are:
22.8 PTS, 10.0 AST, 4.3 REB, 0.8 STL, 56.9 FG% 61.5 3P% and 2.3 TO

So he has been terrific during their four game streak when they have beaten their opponents with 23.8 points margin.

Since I'm currently in sick leave and had some time to waste, I watched couple of Jazz games mainly to better idea whether Q's theory about Snyder giving Ricky more freedom as ball handler would be true, which would explain Ricky's higher assists numbers.

I watched New Orleans and Warriors games and it seems that against New Orleans, Ricky had probably more pick and roll ball handler opportunities than earlier but I assume it was mainly because Mitchell was coming off minor injury and played much less minutes than normally and handled also less ball. In Golden State game, Ricky was pretty often stretching the floor in corners while Mitchell was playing pick and roll with Gobert. So one reason behind Ricky's high assist totals in last couple of games has definitely been MItchell missing one game and playing just a little in another. Another reason for higher assists numbers has been that Utah has been playing with clearly higher pace during that streak. They had averaged 97.1 possessions per game but during last 4 games they have had 101.7 possessions per game. So higher amount of fast break opportunities obviously helps a lot Ricky's assist numbers.

Last but not least reason has been that Utah has been unbelievably hot behind three point line. In those four games they have hit 54.5% of their three pointers. So it has been unlike in many times when Ricky was in Wolves uniform and people were wondering how many assists he would have had if other players would have hit their open shots. At least in Golden State and New Orleans games it looked like every open three pointer that they took went in. So I'm not expecting his current surge even in assists to continue much longer even if Utah would continue to play higher pace. But since early this season he was horrible with his passes and averaged more TOs than ever before despite getting much less assists, I think his play cannot continue as horrible either. Maybe it has just took some time to get used to offensive system where he doesn't have ball in his hands that much in every offensive possession.

But still I see Utah legit possibility for 8th seed if Gobert stays healthy. Their defense with Gobert is so good that they won't need to average over 120 points to have a shot for victory. With defensive rating below 100, much less will enough in most nights.

Mikkeman wrote:

Camden wrote:

Ricky Rubio's first 8 games: 17.5 PTS, 6.5 AST, 4.9 REB, 2.1 STL, 43.7 FG%, 37.2 3P%, 91.9 FT%

Ricky Rubio's last 8 games: 15.9 PTS, 7.1 AST, 5.6 REB, 1.1 STL, 50 FG%, 50 3P%, 84.4 FT%

The 35 games in between: 9.7 PTS, 4.3 AST, 3.8 REB, 1.5 STL, 37.2 FG%, 26.4 3P%, 86.1 FT%

This is a tweet from a day ago from a Utah writer. That's... quite the difference in players.

It seems to me that this tweet was trying to make Ricky's current streak of good games to be longer than it really has been.

His first 4 game averages of that 8 game period were:
9.8 PTS, 5.8 AST, 6.5 REB, 1.3 STL, 38.2 FG% 33.3 3P% and 3.0 TO
and averages over last 4 games are:
22.8 PTS, 10.0 AST, 4.3 REB, 0.8 STL, 56.9 FG% 61.5 3P% and 2.3 TO

So he has been terrific during their four game streak when they have beaten their opponents with 23.8 points margin.

Since I'm currently in sick leave and had some time to waste, I watched couple of Jazz games mainly to better idea whether Q's theory about Snyder giving Ricky more freedom as ball handler would be true, which would explain Ricky's higher assists numbers.

I watched New Orleans and Warriors games and it seems that against New Orleans, Ricky had probably more pick and roll ball handler opportunities than earlier but I assume it was mainly because Mitchell was coming off minor injury and played much less minutes than normally and handled also less ball. In Golden State game, Ricky was pretty often stretching the floor in corners while Mitchell was playing pick and roll with Gobert. So one reason behind Ricky's high assist totals in last couple of games has definitely been MItchell missing one game and playing just a little in another. Another reason for higher assists numbers has been that Utah has been playing with clearly higher pace during that streak. They had averaged 97.1 possessions per game but during last 4 games they have had 101.7 possessions per game. So higher amount of fast break opportunities obviously helps a lot Ricky's assist numbers.

Last but not least reason has been that Utah has been unbelievably hot behind three point line. In those four games they have hit 54.5% of their three pointers. So it has been unlike in many times when Ricky was in Wolves uniform and people were wondering how many assists he would have had if other players would have hit their open shots. At least in Golden State and New Orleans games it looked like every open three pointer that they took went in. So I'm not expecting his current surge even in assists to continue much longer even if Utah would continue to play higher pace. But since early this season he was horrible with his passes and averaged more TOs than ever before despite getting much less assists, I think his play cannot continue as horrible either. Maybe it has just took some time to get used to offensive system where he doesn't have ball in his hands that much in every offensive possession.

But still I see Utah legit possibility for 8th seed if Gobert stays healthy. Their defense with Gobert is so good that they won't need to average over 120 points to have a shot for victory. With defensive rating below 100, much less will enough in most nights.

Good post mikke. We can always count on you to give a fair and objective analysis. You should post more frequently.

Great analysis Mikkeman.

I have no real informed opinion about Utah and what has happened, so my "letting Ricky be Ricky" was pure speculation just based on his more recent numbers.

There is no question Rubio had a long stretch of mediocre play this year, with the TOs being uncharacteristically high. And perhaps he will return to that level of play as the season winds down. But I love it when he's doing well!

P.S. Ricky's TS% is higher than Andrew Wiggins. That says a lot more about Wiggins and his poor shot selection/shot making than it does Rubio.

Q12543 wrote:Great analysis Mikkeman.

I have no real informed opinion about Utah and what has happened, so my "letting Ricky be Ricky" was pure speculation just based on his more recent numbers.

There is no question Rubio had a long stretch of mediocre play this year, with the TOs being uncharacteristically high. And perhaps he will return to that level of play as the season winds down. But I love it when he's doing well!

P.S. Ricky's TS% is higher than Andrew Wiggins. That says a lot more about Wiggins and his poor shot selection/shot making than it does Rubio.

Yeah Wiggins has struggled this year no doubt. Also comparing the 2 guys Rubio takes a higher percentage of his shots from 3 and gets to the line at a decent rate and makes his FTs. Rubio is also shooting a career high from 2 point range. He is shooting a career high at the rim and also shooting well again over 40% on long 2's. How much are those numbers propped up by some really hot streaks? Idk. One number that's troubling for him is the last 2 years he has taken a lot more corner 3's and has made a below average percentage from there. Under 32.7% this year on corner 3's is not good. His shot chart is kinda interesting as he seems to take more shots on the left side of the floor.

Mikkeman wrote:

Camden wrote:

Ricky Rubio's first 8 games: 17.5 PTS, 6.5 AST, 4.9 REB, 2.1 STL, 43.7 FG%, 37.2 3P%, 91.9 FT%

Ricky Rubio's last 8 games: 15.9 PTS, 7.1 AST, 5.6 REB, 1.1 STL, 50 FG%, 50 3P%, 84.4 FT%

The 35 games in between: 9.7 PTS, 4.3 AST, 3.8 REB, 1.5 STL, 37.2 FG%, 26.4 3P%, 86.1 FT%

This is a tweet from a day ago from a Utah writer. That's... quite the difference in players.

It seems to me that this tweet was trying to make Ricky's current streak of good games to be longer than it really has been.

His first 4 game averages of that 8 game period were:
9.8 PTS, 5.8 AST, 6.5 REB, 1.3 STL, 38.2 FG% 33.3 3P% and 3.0 TO
and averages over last 4 games are:
22.8 PTS, 10.0 AST, 4.3 REB, 0.8 STL, 56.9 FG% 61.5 3P% and 2.3 TO

So he has been terrific during their four game streak when they have beaten their opponents with 23.8 points margin.

Since I'm currently in sick leave and had some time to waste, I watched couple of Jazz games mainly to better idea whether Q's theory about Snyder giving Ricky more freedom as ball handler would be true, which would explain Ricky's higher assists numbers.

I watched New Orleans and Warriors games and it seems that against New Orleans, Ricky had probably more pick and roll ball handler opportunities than earlier but I assume it was mainly because Mitchell was coming off minor injury and played much less minutes than normally and handled also less ball. In Golden State game, Ricky was pretty often stretching the floor in corners while Mitchell was playing pick and roll with Gobert. So one reason behind Ricky's high assist totals in last couple of games has definitely been MItchell missing one game and playing just a little in another. Another reason for higher assists numbers has been that Utah has been playing with clearly higher pace during that streak. They had averaged 97.1 possessions per game but during last 4 games they have had 101.7 possessions per game. So higher amount of fast break opportunities obviously helps a lot Ricky's assist numbers.

Last but not least reason has been that Utah has been unbelievably hot behind three point line. In those four games they have hit 54.5% of their three pointers. So it has been unlike in many times when Ricky was in Wolves uniform and people were wondering how many assists he would have had if other players would have hit their open shots. At least in Golden State and New Orleans games it looked like every open three pointer that they took went in. So I'm not expecting his current surge even in assists to continue much longer even if Utah would continue to play higher pace. But since early this season he was horrible with his passes and averaged more TOs than ever before despite getting much less assists, I think his play cannot continue as horrible either. Maybe it has just took some time to get used to offensive system where he doesn't have ball in his hands that much in every offensive possession.

But still I see Utah legit possibility for 8th seed if Gobert stays healthy. Their defense with Gobert is so good that they won't need to average over 120 points to have a shot for victory. With defensive rating below 100, much less will enough in most nights.

Good observations. But I would note that Ricky's assist total the last 8 games is still below his career average. So it's not like he's playing over his head from a playmaking perspective. And he didn't need 3-point shooters around him to amass his assist totals with the Wolves.

Ricky always brought several things to the court every minute he played: defense (including steals), rebounding, free throws (both high volume & high percentage) and assists. The one thing that varied game to game, usually in steaks, was his field goal shooting with far more bad streaks than good ones. The only thing different in Utah thus far has been his comparatively poor assist numbers. That's probably a combination of adjusting to a new team (new coach and different teammates) and having fewer scorers around him. As you noted, the slower pace in Utah has probably been another factor.

It's interesting to see Ricky do well these past 8 games and the correlation between his production and the team's success. It's hard to know the cause-effect. Is it Ricky making the team better or the team making Ricky better? It's probably a bit of both. Ricky's talents and style are so interwoven with team play. In a sense, he amplifies both the good and the bad in his teammates. That's why I would have liked to see him play for the Wolves this season. It would have been interesting to see him play with the talent he would have been surrounded with in Minnesota this season. My guess is we would have seen his defense, rebounds, steals and assists where they've always been with his assists perhaps higher consistently throughout the season. I also suspect we would have seen the same poor field-goal shooter we've always seen. But his poor field goal shooting would have mattered even less.

There's no way to know whether we'd have a better or worse record with Ricky rather than Teague.

There's no way to know if the Wolves would be better on the floor with Rubio instead of Teague, but one thing is for certain. We would not have a first-round pick to play with if we hadn't traded Rubio. The swap is basically Teague and that OKC first-rounder for Rubio. I take the former option 10 times out of 10, personally. And that's from someone that argued in Rubio's favor more than I argued against him.

Camden wrote:There's no way to know if the Wolves would be better on the floor with Rubio instead of Teague, but one thing is for certain. We would not have a first-round pick to play with if we hadn't traded Rubio. The swap is basically Teague and that OKC first-rounder for Rubio. I take the former option 10 times out of 10, personally. And that's from someone that argued in Rubio's favor more than I argued against him.

That pick is only valuable when this franchise values development, and the first guinea pig (Patton) we won't see concrete results from for a while.