Can We Have a Thoughtful, Considerate Discussion about This?

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I'll be fair. No, we shouldn't trade him in the next few days. All the other Wiggins arguments have been talked about ad nauseam in this forum. But I can answer the question you took roughly 10 paragraphs to ask. The answer is no.

I agree we've argued Wiggins as a player to death. But my post is really just about the issue from a contractual perspective. Can this team construct a contender with Butler, Towns, and Wiggins all on max deals? I don't think so for the reasons I've laid out. If you think so, I'd sincerely like to hear an argument for how. I assume we probably aren't going to trade Wiggins so I need all the opDOUGism I can get, so I actually want to be convinced.

[thedoper]

My only comment to Drew would be that no team that will be willing to trade for him after this season because of his contract will trade for him now either. They're not stupid, they know the contract is there and they'd be responsible for it.

I'm not saying to trade him. I'm not saying don't trade him. I'm only saying if the contract is the singular reason nobody will take him then he's already untradeable.

Do you really think nobody would take him? I mean, not even straight up for some random expiring vet wing? I gotta think a team like the Kings might bite, right? Bulls? Mavs? Suns? Nets? Hawks? Those teams will have cap space and are clearly not free agent destinations.

If we can't get off of WIggins first max deal for an expiring wing or something close to it then there is really something wrong with basketball. Which is why there is no need to make a deal now and in fact it would be a horrible move because the guy is contributing to wins. There are always going to be teams looking to climb out of a mess and barring injury Wiggins will be looked at as a potential asset even if overpaid.

[Duke13]

I think this team is maxed out right now as far as potential. This stuff is obviously hard to predict, I don't think the Clips honestly envisioned trading Blake this earlier in his contract. We have some bad contracts on the books, Taj, Gorgui, Wig and even Teague in my opinion. I would take the deal the Clips got for Blake right now for Wig if given the opportunity. I would have attached Taj in the deal. We would be a better team right now in my opinion. You add Bradley, Harris and a 1st round pick. I'm not going to do research on the metrics, but I'd be willing to bet the metrics say those two players impact winning more then Wig.

Sure Wig is young and there is alway the chance he improves, so there is obviously some speculation in that regarding. He's just not a max player in my opinion and the odds are he won't improve to be in my opinion. I don't see Tibs doing it though, he's not an out of the box thinker.

[Monster]

Because Wiggins signed his extension he basically can't be traded this season. I hope Wiggins discussions can stay respectful but why not let this season play out and go from there?

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Because Wiggins signed his extension he basically can't be traded this season. I hope Wiggins discussions can stay respectful but why not let this season play out and go from there?

Really? Is that a policy? I didn't know that. How was the Blake deal different? Was he a UFA last summer so it's different?

[Monster]

Because Wiggins signed his extension he basically can't be traded this season. I hope Wiggins discussions can stay respectful but why not let this season play out and go from there?

Really? Is that a policy? I didn't know that. How was the Blake deal different? Was he a UFA last summer so it's different?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q91

"91. What is the Poison Pill Provision?

"Poison Pill" isn't a defined term in the CBA, but there are a couple situations that are commonly referred to as a poison pill -- meaning a contract clause that creates a potential difficulty because the cap accounting can vary from the norm.

The first is when a team extends a first round draft pick's rookie scale contract (see question number 58) and then trades the player between the date the extension is signed and the date it takes effect. When this happens, the player's trade value for the receiving team is the average of the salaries in the last year of the rookie scale contract and each year of the extension. The sending team uses the player's actual salary when calculating their total outgoing salary, and uses the current-year maximum salary in place of the (unknown) maximum salary for a future season, if necessary.

For example, if a player on the last year of his rookie scale contract earns $5 million in 2018-19, and his contract is extended for four seasons starting at $10 million, with 5% raises, then his salary in each season will be:

Season Salary
2018-19 $5,000,000
2019-20 $10,000,000
2020-21 $10,500,000
2021-22 $11,000,000
2022-23 $11,500,000
If this player is traded during the 2018-19 season, then his outgoing salary from the sending team's perspective is his actual salary -- $5 million. But the player's incoming salary from the receiving team's perspective is $9.6 million -- the average of all five seasons. Such a player would be very difficult to trade -- a legal trade can only be accomplished if both teams add additional salary to the transaction, or if they include a third team that is able to absorb excess salary.

The Gilbert Arenas provision (see question number 43) also has been described as containing a poison pill. This is in reference to the third season of contracts signed according to this provision, which can contain substantially higher salaries than the first two seasons. Houston used this provision to its advantage when signing Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik in 2012. However, the impact of this poison pill was reduced in the 2017 CBA, when matching teams were given the ability to choose whether the actual or average salary counted toward their team salary."

[kekgeek]

There is many reason why we shouldn't trade Wiggins now or in the offseason.

1) First off his value is going to be at its all time low right now because of the poison pill so teams have to pay more to obtain him, than even in this offseason. How weird it is his value goes up during the offseason than it is now because of the poison pill.

2) Who are we going to trade him for. You mention trading him for expiring contract and a rookie. Here is the problem with that, pretend we trade wiggins for bradley (expiring), Decker (a player on a rookie deal/this is also just an example I bet we could get a lot better young player) and a 1st. First off Bradley or the expiring player can just leave and if he doesn't want to be here we don't have any cap space to add any other player. We are maxed out right now and we only have the MLE this offseason and Towns is up for the same extension wiggins just got (he is eligible now for more because he made the all star game). So we won't be gaining any cap space to acquire a max like talent or for that case even an above average role player like Taj. That cap space is just not there even if we trade wiggins for expirings.

3) I think everyone in todays NBA agrees that we need to have 3 stars to compete for a championship in todays game. So if we trade Wiggins for expiring contracts and/or good role players how do we obtain that 3rd or 4th star. We have a lot of big contracts in Teague (19 mil), Gorgui (15 mil), Taj (14 mil) that are going to be hard to unload without giving up significant assets because teams don't have the cap space they did 2 years ago. So how are we going to acquire a player who would have any chance to have the talent to become an all star.

4) Also there is no guarantee that we get better trading wiggins. Pretend we trade Wiggins for expirings and those players are solid but don't put us over the top. Jimmy could be just like we have no chance at getting any better, he could look at the situation and say well we have ME, Kat and a bunch of solid role players but no cap space and the role players don't have the potential to get us over the top. So Jimmy can leave in a year, and instead of a team with 2 young players in Wiggins and Kat. We just have Kat and who wants to come to minnesota in free agency if we just have Kat (I mean Taj, Kevin Martin and Teague are 3 of the top 5 wolves free agent signings of all time). So in my opinion the floor is so much bigger if we traded wiggins.

5) This is so much different than the blake situation. Blake will be 33 off of 6 lower body surgeries (as of now) and is going to take up 35% of there cap. The Clippers do not even have the upside, Deandre is a free agent, Lou williams is a free agent so 2 of their top 3 players are free agents. They could leave this offseason and they still wouldn't have solid cap space with the contracts of Gallo, Rivers, Millo on the books. Wiggins will be 27/28 in his last year of his contract, what should be his prime, totally different situation. Clippers have no upside players left and the Wolves have at least 2 young players in Kat and Wiggins who theoretically could take big jumps.

6) Wiggins plays every game (huge +), he is improving on the defensive end. He is shooting around his career averages from 3 but in a lot more attempts what is huge. (still needs to improve). He has the potential to take over a game when Jimmy is out. Like he did in 2 of the 3 games Jimmy missed last month. He cant do it every game but I think that is huge, unlike a player like middleton who might theoretically be a better fit, he doesn't have the take over the game potential wiggins has shown in his career.

7) Has wiggins played like a max player. I think the obvious answer is no. But he still is only 22 and I know we are all sick of the word potential but I will take my chances on him figuring it out over trading him for role players who might be a better fit but Jimmy and Kat are not enough even with the best role players in the world to win a championship. Also I will take my chances with Wiggins because we still have no cap space to fill the void that will be left by wiggins.

8) Of course though if an all star player becomes available you have to look at trading wiggins. If porzingas, davis, Kyrie like this year become available of course you look at it and you make the trade. Wiggins is not even close to untradable but I think were we are as a franchise it would be a bad move to trade wiggins for role players just to get role players. Those players will not get us over the top. I will take my chances that wiggins has the talent to possibly one day get us over the top, even if that % is super small. Because I think it is a 0% chance we could get over the top if we trade him for less talented players just to get out of the contract

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I have said multiple times we will be able to trade Wiggins with his contract to Toronto moving forward. This is barring injury of course. There is no doubt in my mind with my knowledge of the Toronto ownership group (Maple Leaf Sports and not Masai) that they would jump on any Wiggins deal they could provided he continues his slow ascent to being a relative star in the NBA. My only worry about Wiggins contract in relation to our team is that we have a colossal idiot as the owner of our team who will eventually put pressure on Thibs to be thrifty as the primary objective. Wiggins has year by year made improvements in his game. When he stops doing that I will join the call for trading him.

I'd argue the improvements have been around the margins. At some point if someone is really improving, it translates to more win shares, a better PER, a better VORP, better TS% etc. Not the case with him. Go look at Tyus Jones' trajectory. Now THAT Is improvement.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

After his last stretch of play when Jimmy went down I don't understand why people would want to trade him. He and Towns are the future. They beat good teams without Jimmy. That should be all you need to know that they are the real building blocks for this franchise for the long haul. The league is about wings now. We have an MVP candidate and an iron man capable of All-Star caliber play any given night and on repeated nights when he's back to a top 2 option. Why would you trade either of them? We're the 3 seed and 2/3 of our best players are 6-7-8 years younger than the teams ahead of us' best players. We're setup to win now and when they all age out. We might not win a title now, but don't cap that at forever. Who knows which guys will be at the top of the league in 3-4-5 years. Too many people are trying to beat the Warriors and Rockets now and nobody can hang with them. We're one of the few teams actually setup to take that throne at the end of their run and people want to trade it away for a role player. Makes no sense to me. The third wheel always takes a hit to the stats. Look at every other big 3. The important part is when called upon can that third wheel play like a top 2 guy and win you games and he's proven that. Oh and he's still 22 and last I checked the league isn't run by 22 year olds. Let him hit his prime before you write him and us off and mortgage it all on trying to take down the best team ever now.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

There is many reason why we shouldn't trade Wiggins now or in the offseason.

1) First off his value is going to be at its all time low right now because of the poison pill so teams have to pay more to obtain him, than even in this offseason. How weird it is his value goes up during the offseason than it is now because of the poison pill.

2) Who are we going to trade him for. You mention trading him for expiring contract and a rookie. Here is the problem with that, pretend we trade wiggins for bradley (expiring), Decker (a player on a rookie deal/this is also just an example I bet we could get a lot better young player) and a 1st. First off Bradley or the expiring player can just leave and if he doesn't want to be here we don't have any cap space to add any other player. We are maxed out right now and we only have the MLE this offseason and Towns is up for the same extension wiggins just got (he is eligible now for more because he made the all star game). So we won't be gaining any cap space to acquire a max like talent or for that case even an above average role player like Taj. That cap space is just not there even if we trade wiggins for expirings.

3) I think everyone in todays NBA agrees that we need to have 3 stars to compete for a championship in todays game. So if we trade Wiggins for expiring contracts and/or good role players how do we obtain that 3rd or 4th star. We have a lot of big contracts in Teague (19 mil), Gorgui (15 mil), Taj (14 mil) that are going to be hard to unload without giving up significant assets because teams don't have the cap space they did 2 years ago. So how are we going to acquire a player who would have any chance to have the talent to become an all star.

4) Also there is no guarantee that we get better trading wiggins. Pretend we trade Wiggins for expirings and those players are solid but don't put us over the top. Jimmy could be just like we have no chance at getting any better, he could look at the situation and say well we have ME, Kat and a bunch of solid role players but no cap space and the role players don't have the potential to get us over the top. So Jimmy can leave in a year, and instead of a team with 2 young players in Wiggins and Kat. We just have Kat and who wants to come to minnesota in free agency if we just have Kat (I mean Taj, Kevin Martin and Teague are 3 of the top 5 wolves free agent signings of all time). So in my opinion the floor is so much bigger if we traded wiggins.

5) This is so much different than the blake situation. Blake will be 33 off of 6 lower body surgeries (as of now) and is going to take up 35% of there cap. The Clippers do not even have the upside, Deandre is a free agent, Lou williams is a free agent so 2 of their top 3 players are free agents. They could leave this offseason and they still wouldn't have solid cap space with the contracts of Gallo, Rivers, Millo on the books. Wiggins will be 27/28 in his last year of his contract, what should be his prime, totally different situation. Clippers have no upside players left and the Wolves have at least 2 young players in Kat and Wiggins who theoretically could take big jumps.

6) Wiggins plays every game (huge +), he is improving on the defensive end. He is shooting around his career averages from 3 but in a lot more attempts what is huge. (still needs to improve). He has the potential to take over a game when Jimmy is out. Like he did in 2 of the 3 games Jimmy missed last month. He cant do it every game but I think that is huge, unlike a player like middleton who might theoretically be a better fit, he doesn't have the take over the game potential wiggins has shown in his career.

7) Has wiggins played like a max player. I think the obvious answer is no. But he still is only 22 and I know we are all sick of the word potential but I will take my chances on him figuring it out over trading him for role players who might be a better fit but Jimmy and Kat are not enough even with the best role players in the world to win a championship. Also I will take my chances with Wiggins because we still have no cap space to fill the void that will be left by wiggins.

8) Of course though if an all star player becomes available you have to look at trading wiggins. If porzingas, davis, Kyrie like this year become available of course you look at it and you make the trade. Wiggins is not even close to untradable but I think were we are as a franchise it would be a bad move to trade wiggins for role players just to get role players. Those players will not get us over the top. I will take my chances that wiggins has the talent to possibly one day get us over the top, even if that % is super small. Because I think it is a 0% chance we could get over the top if we trade him for less talented players just to get out of the contract

Solid arguments here....#6 especially. He is such a tease, because you see him make plays that just scream "star", yet he just can't do it over a sustained stretch of games.